Game 11: Los Angeles Clippers (7-3) @ Houston Rockets (7-3) - 7:30 PM

[esqtvd]

Make a comeback and then yank a player was exactly what happen in the 3rd quarter

Favorable match ups against who? He’s playing limited minutes against other teams starting players and playing amazing defense while scoring in the pick and roll, post and off 2nd chance.


Like you said don’t sub out the whole 5 just the weakest link which was Harrell in this game.

Harrell was in the PLUS the entire game until the last 3 minutes. He was plus+10 when we made the rest of the comeback in the 4th. After the disastrous start, Trezz got us back in the game in the 2nd quarter; we closed to 5 and limped into halftime only down by 12 [we deserved worse].


Zubac was in the minus all game. Yes, he was in [plus+5] when we started to come back in the 3rd quarter. Yes, Doc could have left him in, but we got within single digits, and the usual rotation has Zubac play no more than 6-7 minutes a stretch. So Doc went with Plan A. And then we had the ferocious comeback in the 4th and almost pulled this thing off.


Yes, play Zubac more. I got it. I got it. The backup QB argument. But the thing is, Doc has been carefully curating Zubac's minutes just like he did with Shai, and yanks him when he starts going south. Keeping the kids' confidence up instead of letting them drown when the water gets too deep for them.

He's done it with Robinson, and you watch, he'll do it with Mann. And he does it with Zubac. Doc lets him walk off the floor with a win every time just like he did with SGA. But there's no way Zubac plays in crunch time until he gets his wings. Right now he's still got training wheels. He's slow laterally on defense, and has to be spoon-fed his offense. He's not ready for prime time.

I wrote at the very beginning of the year that if Zu can stay on the floor 20 minutes or more, we'll be in great shape. But, no, we had to yank him after 4 minutes tonight. That should not be controversial. It was right on the scoreboard.

Look, the other thing is, Lou and Trezz are a unit. They entered the game together tonight for Patterson and Zubac and stopped the bleeding. Again, it's a chemistry thing. The whole plus/minus equation is a chemistry thing. A bad plus/minus doesn't necessarily mean you suck. But it does mean that what's on the floor isn't working. Somebody's got to go.

And sorry, kid--it's YOU.

______________________________

ADD:

I know you love Doc but for games now he needs to stop playing guys these long stretches and he keeps doing it. This is what made the Unstatable saga and even now he continues to make these basic mistakes of overplaying guys

I'm not going to fight you on this one. It was Doc's perhaps fatal flaw in the Lob City days. But although you won't stipulate it, I argue strongly that if Doc doesn't play the **** out of the only 5 guys who were in the PLUS tonight [and there were only 5], we're out of that game early.

Instead we almost pulled it off.

Doc even gave Harkless 24 minutes at MINUS-20. He had nowhere else to turn. Trezz didn't lose us that game. It was our lack of depth after Lou-Kawhi-Bev-J-Myke.

[TheNewEra]

Make a comeback and then yank a player was exactly what happen in the 3rd quarter

Favorable match ups against who? He’s playing limited minutes against other teams starting players and playing amazing defense while scoring in the pick and roll, post and off 2nd chance.


Like you said don’t sub out the whole 5 just the weakest link which was Harrell in this game.

Harrell was in the PLUS the entire game until the last 3 minutes. He was plus+10 when we made the rest of the comeback in the 4th. After the disastrous start, Trezz got us back in the game in the 2nd quarter; we closed to 5 and limped into halftime only down by 12 [we deserved worse].


Zubac was in the minus all game. Yes, he was in [plus+5] when we started to come back in the 3rd quarter. Yes, Doc could have left him in, but we got within single digits, and the usual rotation has Zubac play no more than 6-7 minutes a stretch. So Doc went with Plan A. And then we had the ferocious comeback in the 4th and almost pulled this thing off.


Yes, play Zubac more. I got it. I got it. The backup QB argument. But the thing is, Doc has been carefully curating Zubac's minutes just like he did with Shai, and yanks him when he starts going south. Keeping the kids' confidence up instead of letting them drown when the water gets too deep for them.

He's done it with Robinson, and you watch, he'll do it with Mann. And he does it with Zubac. Doc lets him walk off the floor with a win every time just like he did with SGA. But there's no way Zubac plays in crunch time until he gets his wings. Right now he's still got training wheels. He's slow laterally on defense, and has to be spoon-fed his offense. He's not ready for prime time.

I wrote at the very beginning of the year that if Zu can stay on the floor 20 minutes or more, we'll be in great shape. But, no, we had to yank him after 4 minutes tonight. That should not be controversial. It was right on the scoreboard.

Look, the other thing is, Lou and Trezz are a unit. They entered the game together tonight for Patterson and Zubac and stopped the bleeding. Again, it's a chemistry thing. The whole plus/minus equation is a chemistry thing. A bad plus/minus doesn't necessarily mean you suck. But it does mean that what's on the floor isn't working. Somebody's got to go.

And sorry, kid--it's YOU.

______________________________

ADD:

I know you love Doc but for games now he needs to stop playing guys these long stretches and he keeps doing it. This is what made the Unstatable saga and even now he continues to make these basic mistakes of overplaying guys

I'm not going to fight you on this one. It was Doc's perhaps fatal flaw in the Lob City days. But although you won't stipulate it, I argue strongly that if Doc doesn't play the **** out of the only 5 guys who were in the PLUS tonight [and there were only 5], we're out of that game early.

Instead we almost pulled it off.

Doc even gave Harkless 24 minutes at MINUS-20. He had nowhere else to turn. Trezz didn't lose us that game. It was our lack of depth after Lou-Kawhi-Bev-J-Myke.

You can not use plus/minus to validate a player that is having a bad game. You are giving Harrell credit for his mere presence on the court when no one would ever call the game he had a positive or his defense a vital part of the run.

It’s not backup QB I’m not calling for Zubac to close every game but for a 12 minute quarter to play the entire thing every games doesn’t seem strange to you? Even tonight 10 minutes is just unacceptable play more in the third and 2 minutes in the fourth or whatever but to abandon the guy game after game is weak. Doc isn’t protecting anyone he’s just being cowardly and stubborn on what he thinks is right. You finally admitted Shamet has been struggling earlier and Doc let’s him play through the fire regardless of how badly he’s been getting beat on his defensive assignments or how his shots are not falling or being taken at all. He allowed his son Austin to play through his mistakes when he was on the way out the league and Shamet is allowed to play because Doc views him as JJ and not as Shamet.


What wings the numbers supported he was a impact player last season. He’s improved his body and recovered hands received_ fewer minutes than he did last year while being better now.


This stereotype that Zubac is slow when it’s been shown here multiple times of him moving his feet to keep up with ball handlers like Curry, Lillard, McCollum, and even Harden is completely false


Benching him after 4 minutes was not because of Zu was unplayable it’s because we couldn’t hit a shot and even with his misses he scored 1 more point than Harrell in the quarter. So yes 20 minutes to 4 minutes when one player has 1 point and the other has 4 is a bit controversial and if it’s not then the same rules should of been applied in the second half when Zubac had 6 to 0.

Plus/minus could also mean a unit isn’t working and since the start of the season Beverly/Sham/Patterson have been struggling with their shots. Combine Kawhi having slow starts I agree it’s a bad fit lineup but if the player that’s playing the least has more points or tied with guys who play double the minutes there should be a deeper meaning to the stat.


I’m not trying to say Harrell cost us the game but I’m not going to give in that he helped keep it close. For Doc to be a coach that praises roles for the role of Harrell to be a scoring punch off the bench he shouldn’t of played him as much as he did not fulfilling his role. You can’t play 38 minutes and only give us 4 points and not even rebounding.

[esqtvd]

You can not use plus/minus to validate a player that is having a bad game.


I’m not trying to say Harrell cost us the game but I’m not going to give in that he helped keep it close. For Doc to be a coach that praises roles for the role of Harrell to be a scoring punch off the bench he shouldn’t of played him as much as he did not fulfilling his role. You can’t play 38 minutes and only give us 4 points and not even rebounding.

Wearin' me tf out. It's about combinations. We have not found a combination that thrives with Zubac except vs traditional centers. Lou and Trezz are a combination that thrives against almost any other matchup. That's the name of this tune. Lou and Zu, I already told you about how Doc said D'Antoni actually schemed some defense tonight and choked off the P'n'R for Lou and Kawhi, meaning that Zu is OUT of the offensive game.

I just can't keep having you ignore my best points, bro .

I get it, I get. More Zubac. Hopefully he can lay waste to the Pelicans. Singlehandedly. After Trezz's 40 minutes tonight, Zubac is gonna get all the minutes he can eat. I wanna see some Mann instead of McGruder too, ok? McGruder is never gonna see serious minutes for this team.

____________

What wings the numbers supported he was a impact player last season. He’s improved his body and recovered hands received_ fewer minutes than he did last year while being better now.

By no stretch of the imagination is Zubac an "impact player." The numbers are a fiction created by Doc curating his matchups. Zu is a starter-placeholder who plays 15 minutes a night. Thus our disagreement.

Forget the backup QB argument. This is getting back to Boban territory now.

[Clemenza]

Read on Twitter

Facts... It was null and void since Pat couldn't hit one jumpshot to save his life tonight. Of course he's not the primary scorer but he's got to be some kind of threat on the offensive end. Get Mann a few minutes. Its not like we'll miss scoring with him in the game since nobody on the team can hit a jumper to save their lives right now.

[esqtvd]

Read on Twitter

Facts... It was null and void since Pat couldn't hit one jumpshot to save his life tonight. Of course he's not the primary scorer but he's got to be some kind of threat on the offensive end. Get Mann a few minutes. Its not like we'll miss scoring with him in the game since nobody on the team can hit a jumper to save their lives right now.

We've been winning with defense. Held the highest-scoring team in the NBA to 102 tonight in a loss. ON THE ROAD.

PG coming. An extra 25 ppg scorer should be good for what ails us, eh?


Blake never got to 25 ppg. Brand never did it. Now we're gonna have TWO. Kawhi's doing it for the 3rd time. PG scored 28 ppg last year.


I'm way better about losing close games on the offensive end instead of PG walking into a defensive mess. Doc has coached this right. Working on our offense without PG is silly. Working on our defense without him was brill.


...and PG is a PLUS defender

[TheNewEra]

You can not use plus/minus to validate a player that is having a bad game.


I’m not trying to say Harrell cost us the game but I’m not going to give in that he helped keep it close. For Doc to be a coach that praises roles for the role of Harrell to be a scoring punch off the bench he shouldn’t of played him as much as he did not fulfilling his role. You can’t play 38 minutes and only give us 4 points and not even rebounding.

Wearin' me tf out. It's about combinations. We have not found a combination that thrives with Zubac except vs traditional centers. Lou and Trezz are a combination that thrives against almost any matchup. Lou and Zu, I already told you about how Doc said D'Antoni actually schemed some defense tonight and choked off the P'n'R for Lou and Kawhi, meaning that Zu is OUT of the offensive game. .

I just can't keep having you ignore my best points.

I get it, I get. More Zubac. Hopefully he can lay waste to the Pelicans. Singlehandedly. After Trezz's 40 minutes tonight, Zubac is gonna get all the minutes he can eat. I wanna see some Mann too.

Info about Zu that isn’t true defending other bigs. He’s outscored and out played his opposition WHILE ON THE FLOOR in non traditional bigs like Baynes, Aldridge, and Kaminsky against the Bucks in limited minutes was matched up on Giannis. All of these matchups have videos and play by play to verify.

We never saw if D’Antoni takeaway the pick and roll from Kawhi and Zubac because it was working in the third quarter we they ran the plays. They tried to snuff out Zubac rolling and that’s what got him 2 assists finding Harkless on the cut and deep ball. Zubac gets plenty of buckets off misses of his teammates and his own to not be able to score at all.

Can’t say another team took something away from us when in the third quarter it was working and we never saw it again. You mentioned Zubac and Harrell play two different styles so you can’t say Zubac couldn’t do it because Harrell was struggling

Harrell has been known to struggle against long energy bigs but tonight wasn’t about matchups he was simply not focused.

Watch on YouTube

He could of been overthinking it with his shots getting blocked early. He had little lift tonight and seemed to rush everything whenever Capela was around him.

Zubac gets plenty of buckets off misses of his teammates and his own to not be able to score at all.

[esqtvd]

Info about Zu that isn’t true defending other bigs. He’s outscored and out played his opposition WHILE ON THE FLOOR in non traditional bigs like Baynes, Aldridge, and Kaminsky

...

We never saw if D’Antoni takeaway the pick and roll from Kawhi and Zubac

...

He could of been overthinking it with his shots getting blocked early. He had little lift tonight and seemed to rush everything whenever Capela was around him.

Zubac gets plenty of buckets off misses of his teammates and his own to not be able to score at all.

--Kaminsky? I fully expect anyone to outplay Kaminsky. And Baynes? The Suns' backup center? [As for Aldridge, he's a mess right now and I never rated him to begin with despite his stats.]

--If you didn't see D'Antoni take away the pick and roll, it's because he did, after Zubac scored on a couple. D'Antoni is an idiot, but he's not stupid.

--Yes, Zubac could have been "overthinking," but IMO he got swallowed up by the quicker and more experienced Capela. Zubac only scored on a few cheap baskets. That's why he only played 10 minutes. Capela is everything Zubac ain't.

In fact, Capela finished at minus-4 and I guarantee that came because of Trezz, not Zu. He got out to a cheap plus+12 against Zu in the first quarter, then gave it all back to Trezz.

Case closed. Let's hope Zu beats up on the Pels. He's well-rested.

[TheNewEra]

Info about Zu that isn’t true defending other bigs. He’s outscored and out played his opposition WHILE ON THE FLOOR in non traditional bigs like Baynes, Aldridge, and Kaminsky

...

We never saw if D’Antoni takeaway the pick and roll from Kawhi and Zubac

...

He could of been overthinking it with his shots getting blocked early. He had little lift tonight and seemed to rush everything whenever Capela was around him.

Zubac gets plenty of buckets off misses of his teammates and his own to not be able to score at all.

--Kaminsky? I fully expect anyone to outplay Kaminsky. And Baynes? The Suns' backup center? [As for Aldridge, he's a mess right now and I never rated him to begin with despite his stats.]

--If you didn't see D'Antoni take away the pick and roll, it's because he did, after Zubac scored on a couple. D'Antoni is an idiot, but he's not stupid.

--Yes, Zubac could have been "overthinking," but IMO he got swallowed up by the quicker and more experienced Capela. Zubac only scored on a few cheap baskets. That's why he only played 10 minutes. Capela is everything Zubac ain't.

In fact, Capela finished at minus-4 and I guarantee that came because of Trezz, not Zu. He got out to a cheap plus+12 against Zu in the first quarter, then gave it all back to Trezz.

Case closed. Let's hope Zu beats up on the Pels. He's well-rested.

The overthinking comment was about Harrell from the video posted with rushed shots over Capela. Understand you think Harrell was unstatable tonight but he was clearly not right and remained a complete non factor in the game even his single block led right to a Austin Rivers three.

- The 6-4 Suns yes Kaminsky who scored 18 points (4 points while Zubac was in) and Baynes has been a major asset for that teams turnaround. Baynes had 14 with 2 of it on Zubac. Baynes is shooting .500 on 4.4 attempts from deep so far this season.

-Harrell should feel little better without Capela not around maybe won’t get shaken . Reflect on the wonders that he went 2-12 but he managed to only have a -2 plus/minus so all is right in the universe

[TheNewEra]

You can not use plus/minus to validate a player that is having a bad game.


I’m not trying to say Harrell cost us the game but I’m not going to give in that he helped keep it close. For Doc to be a coach that praises roles for the role of Harrell to be a scoring punch off the bench he shouldn’t of played him as much as he did not fulfilling his role. You can’t play 38 minutes and only give us 4 points and not even rebounding.

Wearin' me tf out. It's about combinations. We have not found a combination that thrives with Zubac except vs traditional centers. Lou and Trezz are a combination that thrives against almost any other matchup. That's the name of this tune. Lou and Zu, I already told you about how Doc said D'Antoni actually schemed some defense tonight and choked off the P'n'R for Lou and Kawhi, meaning that Zu is OUT of the offensive game.

I just can't keep having you ignore my best points, bro .

I get it, I get. More Zubac. Hopefully he can lay waste to the Pelicans. Singlehandedly. After Trezz's 40 minutes tonight, Zubac is gonna get all the minutes he can eat. I wanna see some Mann instead of McGruder too, ok? McGruder is never gonna see serious minutes for this team.

____________

What wings the numbers supported he was a impact player last season. He’s improved his body and recovered hands received_ fewer minutes than he did last year while being better now.

By no stretch of the imagination is Zubac an "impact player." The numbers are a fiction created by Doc curating his matchups. Zu is a starter-placeholder who plays 15 minutes a night. Thus our disagreement.

Forget the backup QB argument. This is getting back to Boban territory now.

Missed that part lmao so Zubac isn’t a impact player because Doc’s protecting him by limiting his minutes to have him matched up only against starter level players?!?

Not even worth it anymore. Can’t believe you even tried to make that argument wow that’s a new low. Good luck on the season

[esqtvd]

I got it I got it

Zubac


OK

[TheNewEra]

Read on Twitter

Facts... It was null and void since Pat couldn't hit one jumpshot to save his life tonight. Of course he's not the primary scorer but he's got to be some kind of threat on the offensive end. Get Mann a few minutes. Its not like we'll miss scoring with him in the game since nobody on the team can hit a jumper to save their lives right now.

.152 from deep! That’s rough

[clipperlover]

Didn't lose any sleep over this game. You aren't going to win many games scoring 93 pts on 98 shots. With that kind of shooting, we should have been blown out. It was 88-90 when PB fouled out. Harden had 7 FT attempts after that.

The reason we lost really comes down to Harrell. He had a complete outlier game. He was 2-12. In his time with the Clippers, he has one game where he shot below 45% FG when taking 10 or more shots. It was SAC in February where he shot 5-13 (38.5%). Other than that game he has always been one made basket from 50% shooting when taking 10 or more shots. Harrell has 84 games with us where he has shot 10 or more times.

On top of that, this was only his 4th game shooting that much where he failed to earn a single FT.

Glad Houston feels good about themselves though. Love watching the yearly playoff collapses.

[Young Sterling]

Didn't lose any sleep over this game. You aren't going to win many games scoring 93 pts on 98 shots. With that kind of shooting, we should have been blown out. It was 88-90 when PB fouled out. Harden had 7 FT attempts after that.

The reason we lost really comes down to Harrell. He had a complete outlier game. He was 2-12. In his time with the Clippers, he has one game where he shot below 45% FG when taking 10 or more shots. It was SAC in February where he shot 5-13 (38.5%). Other than that game he has always been one made basket from 50% shooting when taking 10 or more shots. Harrell has 84 games with us where he has shot 10 or more times.

On top of that, this was only his 4th game shooting that much where he failed to earn a single FT.

Glad Houston feels good about themselves though. Love watching the yearly playoff collapses.

Totally agree with what you said, but that last part about loving to watch their yearly playoff collapses... I'm sure they can say the same about us Just gonna leave this here.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/4/30/15495160/clippers-curse-nba-playoffs-blown-lead

2013: 2-0 lead against the Grizzlies
The Clippers blew a good old fashioned lead to the Grizzlies this year.

2014: 1-0 lead against the Thunder
Donald Sterling’s TMZ tape was released this postseason. And while they beat the Warriors in Round 1, who knows what kind of effect that had later on.

2015: 3-1 lead against the Rockets
Chris Paul played through a tough hamstring injury and despite building a 3-1 lead, they still let it slip away.

2016: 2-0 lead against the Trail Blazers
Paul and Blake Griffin both went out with season-ending injuries before Game 3.

2017: 2-1 lead against the Utah Jazz
After going up 2-1 in the series, the Clippers lost Griffin to injury.

[Quake Griffin]

Russell's comment was weak and it was sour grapes AF.

Pat's got it out the mud. If you don't like his in your face rah rah style, then whatever. I'm admittedly cynical about how much it matters and how much it actually helps a team but that doesn't mean I would make a false and incorrect statement that the guy isn't defending. It's also wack to brag about Harden's dirt as a way to diss him. Harden dropped 47 - not you Russ.

Nonetheless, the last foul call on Pat is giving me a persecution complex.

Everybody loves Pat when he's an underdog AND playing that underdog on a team that isn't a threat to win it all. Now that he's on a true contender, he's going to grow to be one the most annoying personalities (read: be who he as always been) in basketball with idiots like yesterday's ref (was it Tony Brother's?) trying to teach him a lesson by calling that **** 6th foul.

[clipperlover]

Didn't lose any sleep over this game. You aren't going to win many games scoring 93 pts on 98 shots. With that kind of shooting, we should have been blown out. It was 88-90 when PB fouled out. Harden had 7 FT attempts after that.

The reason we lost really comes down to Harrell. He had a complete outlier game. He was 2-12. In his time with the Clippers, he has one game where he shot below 45% FG when taking 10 or more shots. It was SAC in February where he shot 5-13 (38.5%). Other than that game he has always been one made basket from 50% shooting when taking 10 or more shots. Harrell has 84 games with us where he has shot 10 or more times.

On top of that, this was only his 4th game shooting that much where he failed to earn a single FT.

Glad Houston feels good about themselves though. Love watching the yearly playoff collapses.

Totally agree with what you said, but that last part about loving to watch their yearly playoff collapses... I'm sure they can say the same about us Just gonna leave this here.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/4/30/15495160/clippers-curse-nba-playoffs-blown-lead

2013: 2-0 lead against the Grizzlies
The Clippers blew a good old fashioned lead to the Grizzlies this year.

2014: 1-0 lead against the Thunder
Donald Sterling’s TMZ tape was released this postseason. And while they beat the Warriors in Round 1, who knows what kind of effect that had later on.

2015: 3-1 lead against the Rockets
Chris Paul played through a tough hamstring injury and despite building a 3-1 lead, they still let it slip away.

2016: 2-0 lead against the Trail Blazers
Paul and Blake Griffin both went out with season-ending injuries before Game 3.

2017: 2-1 lead against the Utah Jazz
After going up 2-1 in the series, the Clippers lost Griffin to injury.

I get your comment , but you are talking about teams that didn't have championship caliber defense or the people in the front office that realized it. We have no one on this roster left from those teams. We have changed front office personnel. We aren't trying to win the regular season. Houston is not touching us in a 7 game series.

[nickhx2]

fwiw last night's meltdown aside, i'm not really worried about the team imploding, at least emotionally.

[Max Headrom]

As bad as the Clippers played offense last night, we still made 5 more FG than the Refkets and actually shot a slightly better percentage. Harden took more free throws than the Clippers team, thee end. Refs went full Simple Jack last night to end the game.