Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE)

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

22.6 points, 9.3 assists per 36 on .580 TS. I mean, I think you could easily debate him and Middleton even at the same salary. Such a poor move not keeping him. Only two scenarios where it isn't:

1. Bucks win title
2. Ind pick ends up comparable or better than Brogdon and Giannis stays

3. Brogdon continues to miss 30-40 games each year at the end of each season and playoffs
4. George Hill continues to play better here than Brogdon in Indy

[LUKE23]

He's missed more than 18 games one time in 3 seasons. LOL at 30-40.

Hill the last three seasons alone has missed 22, 15, 33.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

He's missed more than 18 games one time in 3 seasons. LOL at 30-40.

Hill the last three seasons alone has missed 22, 15, 33.

oh I seee you arent including the games he missed in the two playoff series he missed last year in your total

the way i count it he missed 34 two seasons ago plus was utter rusty gimpy trash in that 7 game boston series in 2018. then he missed 18 regular season games last year plus 9 playoff games over two series in 2019.

basically over the last two seasons hes missed 52 regular season games and was out or either useless for 3 out of our last 4 playoff series we had. I get its semantics but whatever. if he stays healthy in indy then the narrative about him changes. my 3rd point stands.

[DavidDunn21]

The secret sauce of the Warriors dynasty was Dray in the 2nd Round.

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[msiris]

22.6 points, 9.3 assists per 36 on .580 TS. I mean, I think you could easily debate him and Middleton even at the same salary. Such a poor move not keeping him. Only two scenarios where it isn't:

1. Bucks win title
2. Ind pick ends up comparable or better than Brogdon and Giannis stays

3. Brogdon continues to miss 30-40 games each year at the end of each season and playoffs
4. George Hill continues to play better here than Brogdon in Indy

Number 4 is funny.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

22.6 points, 9.3 assists per 36 on .580 TS. I mean, I think you could easily debate him and Middleton even at the same salary. Such a poor move not keeping him. Only two scenarios where it isn't:

1. Bucks win title
2. Ind pick ends up comparable or better than Brogdon and Giannis stays

3. Brogdon continues to miss 30-40 games each year at the end of each season and playoffs
4. George Hill continues to play better here than Brogdon in Indy

Number 4 is funny.

thanks. I meant it to be. Georgie gave me the idea for that joke for his play thru 10 games. I guess theoretically if he keeps his 634% 3pt% and his 956% ts% thru 82 games it could be true tho (i couldnt remember the exact numbers but I think those are close)

[msiris]

3. Brogdon continues to miss 30-40 games each year at the end of each season and playoffs
4. George Hill continues to play better here than Brogdon in Indy

Number 4 is funny.

thanks. I meant it to be. Georgie gave me the idea for that joke for his play thru 10 games. I guess theoretically if he keeps his 634% 3pt% and his 956% ts% thru 82 games it could be true tho (i couldnt remember the exact numbers but I think those are close)

Its funny because you cant even admit that Brogdon has done pretty well for himself. He has done just as good as Middleton at a cheaper price. People thought Brogdon was going to fall flat on his face and cannot admit he is a very good player.

[Chapter29]

Brogdon is playing pretty darn well. I miss him and he is tons better than Hill. His efficiency is slipping a bit but I expected more slippage due to usage and the defensive focus.

[skones]

Number 4 is funny.

thanks. I meant it to be. Georgie gave me the idea for that joke for his play thru 10 games. I guess theoretically if he keeps his 634% 3pt% and his 956% ts% thru 82 games it could be true tho (i couldnt remember the exact numbers but I think those are close)

Its funny because you cant even admit that Brogdon has done pretty well for himself. He has done just as good as Middleton at a cheaper price. People thought Brogdon was going to fall flat on his face and cannot admit he is a very good player.

People thinking Brogdon was going to "fall flat on his face" is an oversimplification of the thoughts many had on him. Nobody here thought Brogdon wasn't a good player.

[msiris]

thanks. I meant it to be. Georgie gave me the idea for that joke for his play thru 10 games. I guess theoretically if he keeps his 634% 3pt% and his 956% ts% thru 82 games it could be true tho (i couldnt remember the exact numbers but I think those are close)

Its funny because you cant even admit that Brogdon has done pretty well for himself. He has done just as good as Middleton at a cheaper price. People thought Brogdon was going to fall flat on his face and cannot admit he is a very good player.

People thinking Brogdon was going to "fall flat on his face" is an oversimplification of the thoughts many had on him. Nobody here thought Brogdon wasn't a good player.

Maybe I went a little to far with my statement. But the fact remain that Brogdon was a valuable member of this team last year and played just as well as our 30 million dollar man.

[blazza18]

22.6 points, 9.3 assists per 36 on .580 TS.

Man, only early but we probably should've given him a bigger role. Whole team would've benifited from it, most noticeably our current highest paid player.

[mattg]

The mistake was not realizing after the playoffs last year that we should be playing guards like Hill and Brogdon at the same time and alongside Giannis. Turns out having 2 guards in the game at the same time who compete defensively, play ball screens, and shoot well is the best formula for success.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Its funny because you cant even admit that Brogdon has done pretty well for himself. He has done just as good as Middleton at a cheaper price. People thought Brogdon was going to fall flat on his face and cannot admit he is a very good player.

People thinking Brogdon was going to "fall flat on his face" is an oversimplification of the thoughts many had on him. Nobody here thought Brogdon wasn't a good player.

Maybe I went a little to far with my statement. But the fact remain that Brogdon was a valuable member of this team last year and played just as well as our 30 million dollar man.

Right up until the 2 playoff series he missed. What I can't understand is his apologists ignoring the health issue as if it doesn't exist just because today, November 14 2019.... He is healthy

My original post please go back and remind yourself #3 was deadly serious despite #4 being a joke

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[GHOSTofSIKMA]

If brogdon puts up a full season of this and we fall short of the goal it changes the discussion. Until then NOTHING he's doing over there is proof of anything

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[emunney]

Brogdon is VERY BAD there I said it. Direct all criticisms to my personal email address, primary@amazon.com

[soxperry]

The mistake was not realizing after the playoffs last year that we should be playing guards like Hill and Brogdon at the same time and alongside Giannis. Turns out having 2 guards in the game at the same time who compete defensively, play ball screens, and shoot well is the best formula for success.

The key is the shooting. Its really as simple as that. The only way that teams can defend Giannis is by packing the paint. This of course, with good passing, creates good shots for the rest of the team. We are creating the greatest number (or percentage?) of wide open 3 point shots in the league. We need to hit those. Bledsoe is a problem if he doesnt improve.

Hill with Giannis is wonderful. We got Hill plus salary relief for the last pick in the first round. We got Mirotic for a parade of 2nd round lottery tickets. We should be able to get a player who fits the offense very well for that Indy 1st.

[soxperry]

If brogdon puts up a full season of this and we fall short of the goal it changes the discussion. Until then NOTHING he's doing over there is proof of anything

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What he is proving is that with higher volume and a bigger variety if shot selection he is not as efficient of a player. That's not really a surprise, but it does throw a little dirt on his 50/40/90 thing. Steph did it on huge volume, Brogdon did it with the perfect circumstances.

One last thing:

Detroit
Cleveland
Detroit
Brooklyn
Cleveland
Chicago
Charlotte
Washington
Detroit
Orlando
OKC

This is who Brogdon has "balled out" against (20ppg .327 from 3, huge assist leap).

[mattg]

The mistake was not realizing after the playoffs last year that we should be playing guards like Hill and Brogdon at the same time and alongside Giannis. Turns out having 2 guards in the game at the same time who compete defensively, play ball screens, and shoot well is the best formula for success.

The key is the shooting. Its really as simple as that. The only way that teams can defend Giannis is by packing the paint. This of course, with good passing, creates good shots for the rest of the team. We are creating the greatest number (or percentage?) of wide open 3 point shots in the league. We need to hit those. Bledsoe is a problem if he doesnt improve.

Hill with Giannis is wonderful. We got Hill plus salary relief for the last pick in the first round. We got Mirotic for a parade of 2nd round lottery tickets. We should be able to get a player who fits the offense very well for that Indy 1st.

It’s not just shooting though, that oversimplifies it. The guys have to be able to play ball screens and shoot off of them. Like if you just put shooters around Giannis who are spotting up and rely on him kicking out to those guys and aren’t manipulating the defense back and forth beyond the guys collapsing on Giannis in the paint you end up running what I call the “clogged toilet” offense. The middle gets plugged up and then the ball spins around the perimeter and never effectively penetrates, you get a really stagnant offense with minimal player movement and ineffective ball movement where everyone is reduced to, or limited by the scheme to a spot up standstill shooter. You get the modern shot profile that everyone likes but the variance is way higher and the best teams will punish offense like that by forcing secondary guys into doing things they aren’t the best at.

[Bernman]

His 3-pt shooting is in the same vicinity or better than: Harden, Doncic, Beal, LeBron, Kawhi, Westbrook, McCollum, etc. This is happening around the league to on ball players so far. He's sacrificing outside shooting efficiency for creation for himself and teammates. It's silly to expect him to shoot nearly as well in a different role than he was or would be playing for us, so that somehow defines his shooting, and fit here. He's proven his outside shooting over years as a #2 or #3 in an offense. Cast as a #1, as we see, he can provide more of your creation for himself and others off his slashing. Often did the same for us off the bench.

Would many of the aforementioned players or somewhat below not be considered a significant loss to our team or others? Some play better defense than he has and that's part of the selling point. But so will he once Oladipo comes back and he can guard 2's mostly. Not ideal for such an offensive focal point to chase around 1's or the opposing team's best player, as we saw with Middleton last year. His #'s suffered against Toronto, in part, because he also had to chase around Kawhi.

Because we lost him so are rationalizing if he's not Durant or Kawhi then he's easily replaceable on the MLE or a #20 pick. Obviously it's not true.

[soxperry]

His 3-pt shooting is in the same vicinity or better than: Harden, Doncic, Beal, LeBron, Kawhi, Westbrook, McCollum, etc. This is happening around the league to on ball players so far. He's sacrificing outside shooting efficiency for creation for himself and teammates. It's silly to expect him to shoot nearly as well in a different role than he was or would be playing for us, so that somehow defines his shooting, and fit here. He's proven his outside shooting over years as a #2 or #3 in an offense. Cast as a #1, as we see, he can provide more of your creation for himself and others off his slashing. Often did the same for us off the bench.

Would many of the aforementioned players or somewhat below not be considered a significant loss to our team or others? Some play better defense than he has and that's part of the selling point. But so will he once Oladipo comes back and he can guard 2's mostly. Not ideal for such an offensive focal point to chase around 1's or the opposing team's best player, as we saw with Middleton last year. His #'s suffered against Toronto, in part, because he also had to chase around Kawhi.

Because we lost him so are rationalizing if he's not Durant or Kawhi then he's easily replaceable on the MLE or a #20 pick. Obviously it's not true.

Lol... You responded to my post so let me say that i dont think he can be replaced by the mle or #15-20 ( and i didnt say that in my post but here we are).

That said...

Hes only shooting 4.5 threes per game. While thats a career high, its a far cry from Harden (14), Beal (9), and Luka (9), why you would compare him to Lebron or Kawhi is mystifying, no one thinks McCollum is having a good year, and literally everyone aside from Westbrook thinks Westbrook should stop shooting threes.

Brogdon has proven he can rack up assists and score on volume against bad teams. Thats all he has done in Indiana so far. Let's let the season play out before we look at him as our version of Harden getting away.