The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III

ProcessDoctor · Post #1381 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:15 pm

I think the key to appreciating Simmons is accepting him for what he is: a glue guy who does so at an all-star level. He will never be LeBron James. He will never be Magic Johnson. That doesn't mean he's not an excellent player in the correct role. We're just relying on him for a role he will never fill.

We need a genuine PG who can play on the perimeter and run the pick-n-roll with Embiid. Simmons can be GREAT as a do-it-all playmaker at the 3/4 and backup PG. Harris is more expendable and should be moved for CJ/DLO/Beal.

(PG)/Simmons
Richardson/Korkmaz
Simmons/Ennis/Thyblle
Horford/Scott
Embiid/KOQ

That 10-man rotation beats anyone in this league. I just don't know if that trade will come before the deadline.

ConstableChaos · Post #1382 » by **ConstableChaos** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:45 pm

The most annoying thing (for me anyway) is that Simmons bailed on the Aussie national team to 'work on his game'. If BS has played in the world cup Aussies would likely take home gold.

So what has Simmons developed in his game?? About the only thing i've seen is his lateral quickeness and hands/effort on D (not sure if these are thing you 'work on'. He did show nice touch on some floaters earlier in the season but that has been missing lately. I still do not understand his complete refusal to use his L hand anywhere near the basket.

Surely this guy has people in his ear telling him he'd be an MVP candidate if he had any kind of outside game, but he seems content to max out as a top25-30 player in this league. He'll likely be out of the league when his athleticism wanes and can;t get any offense in transition

ExplosionsInDaSky · Post #1383 » by **ExplosionsInDaSky** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:15 pm

ConstableChaos wrote:The most annoying thing (for me anyway) is that Simmons bailed on the Aussie national team to 'work on his game'. If BS has played in the world cup Aussies would likely take home gold.

So what has Simmons developed in his game?? About the only thing i've seen is his lateral quickeness and hands/effort on D (not sure if these are thing you 'work on'. He did show nice touch on some floaters earlier in the season but that has been missing lately. I still do not understand his complete refusal to use his L hand anywhere near the basket.

Surely this guy has people in his ear telling him he'd be an MVP candidate if he had any kind of outside game, but he seems content to max out as a top25-30 player in this league. He'll likely be out of the league when his athleticism wanes and can;t get any offense in transition

I disagree, I think Simmons is the epitome of a player where the wait will have been worth it. I personally think he will continue to improve probably every year until he is thirty at which point he'll probably be a MVP candidate on a yearly basis. I know it's frustrating with him now, but it's going to be worth it in the long run.

Kobblehead · Post #1384 » by **Kobblehead** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:24 pm

ExplosionsInDaSky wrote:
ConstableChaos wrote:The most annoying thing (for me anyway) is that Simmons bailed on the Aussie national team to 'work on his game'. If BS has played in the world cup Aussies would likely take home gold.

So what has Simmons developed in his game?? About the only thing i've seen is his lateral quickeness and hands/effort on D (not sure if these are thing you 'work on'. He did show nice touch on some floaters earlier in the season but that has been missing lately. I still do not understand his complete refusal to use his L hand anywhere near the basket.

Surely this guy has people in his ear telling him he'd be an MVP candidate if he had any kind of outside game, but he seems content to max out as a top25-30 player in this league. He'll likely be out of the league when his athleticism wanes and can;t get any offense in transition

I disagree, I think Simmons is the epitome of a player where the wait will have been worth it. I personally think he will continue to improve probably every year until he is thirty at which point he'll probably be a MVP candidate on a yearly basis. I know it's frustrating with him now, but it's going to be worth it in the long run.

Continue to improve?

This guy hasn't improved a single aspect of his game dating back to highschool.

Freshman year at LSU: same player he was at Montverde
Rookie year in the NBA: milked an injury so he could be eligible for rookie of the year
2nd year in the NBA: same player he was at LSU
3rd year in the NBA: same player he was the year before
4th year in the NBA: had to re-discover his love for the game, same player he was the year before

notericjr · Post #1385 » by **notericjr** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:08 pm

Brett's too soft on him.

If we had of traded him for Kawhi last year, Pop would of had him shooting/working on any and all weaknesses from the get go. He would of had no leeway. They (Spurs) probably would of written off last season to acclimatize for it even. But the season after that...Ben would of been immense. A completely different beast to what we are seeing right now for sure....not to mention all the while we would of gotten a great 1 year rental(Kawhi)/championship out of it and still had enough money left over to move forward with improving the team as we moved on. I think it all would of been worth it looking back at it now....hindsight is a ****.

Brett came from that coaching lineage yet affords Ben privileges that no one else gets. He's too close to that family (Simmons).

Ahh well, guess we're going to have to ride the Ben train till the wheels fall off. I ain't as down on him as everyone else but i'm tired of seeing him play like a coward too.

Bum Adebayo · Post #1386 » by **Bum Adebayo** » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:54 pm

The "wait" thing definitely has some merit, however this alone will do nothing. People think he just needs time and one day it will just "click". This won't happen, there needs to be an external factor that activates his MVP mode. As we can see with Wiggins, coaching matters in this regard, the common denominator is Brett. A good coach who is also willing to challenge Simmons to improve will do wonders for him. Simmons has been coddled all his life, so what making all star game and getting a max contract is telling him is that he is doing just fine as is. Someone needs to get on his ear, as simple as that. As you guys know, I am a Simmons hater, but I know how talented he really is, it is sad for the sport to see such great talent wasted like that.
I think when we talk about fit, we forget the most important fit, which is player-coach, Simmons-Brett has to be the worst fit of all time.

eyeatoma · Post #1387 » by **eyeatoma** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:03 am

Well he's not making the all star game with the numbers he's got now, which is perfect!

notericjr · Post #1388 » by **notericjr** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:07 am

eyeatoma wrote:Well he's not making the all star game with the numbers he's got now, which is perfect!

lmao that might be the motivation he needs

he shouldn't be there on merit anyway but we should implore every sixers fan to not vote him in anyway. maybe that will light a fire under his butt

Kobblehead · Post #1389 » by **Kobblehead** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:08 am

It reminds me of the predicament Atlanta was in with Josh Smith 15 years ago.

J-Smooth was a mid-volume scoring, elite defender, elite transition player, and great passer. But the dude couldn't score in the halfcourt. Couldn't shoot. Was one of the worst free throw shooters in the league. All just like Ben.

They sat there 9 years waiting for him to take a leap he was incapable of making. Just not skilled enough. Let's not make the same mistake.

notericjr · Post #1390 » by **notericjr** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:30 am

Kobblehead wrote:It reminds me of the predicament Atlanta was in with Josh Smith 15 years ago.

J-Smooth was a mid-volume scoring, elite defender, elite transition player, and great passer. But the dude couldn't score in the halfcourt. Couldn't shoot. Was one of the worst free throw shooters in the league. All just like Ben.

They sat there 9 years waiting for him to take a leap he was incapable of making. Just not skilled enough. Let's not make the same mistake.

that's a pretty decent comparison, i think a lot gets lost on what we expect from Ben though.The threat of a jump shot, mid range/ 3pt range, whatever is all we need. I feel like it's not that much to ask for right? Just a little?

Ben doesn't even drive like he did in his rookie year where defenders weren't really sagging off him at all, at least nothing compared to how they sag now.

Ben can blow by people smaller and larger than he is...but not if they're guarding him from the paint while he's hovering around the perimeter. He gets a jumper and earns, even if only a little, a little more respect from defenders to the point where they have to get closer to him and it not only opens his own game up but opens up the rest of the teams. but none of this is groundbreaking news

eyeatoma · Post #1391 » by **eyeatoma** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:37 am

Kobblehead wrote:It reminds me of the predicament Atlanta was in with Josh Smith 15 years ago.

J-Smooth was a mid-volume scoring, elite defender, elite transition player, and great passer. But the dude couldn't score in the halfcourt. Couldn't shoot. Was one of the worst free throw shooters in the league. All just like Ben.

They sat there 9 years waiting for him to take a leap he was incapable of making. Just not skilled enough. Let's not make the same mistake.

Good analogy in some ways.

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SparksFly87 · Post #1392 » by **SparksFly87** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:47 am

ProcessDoctor wrote:I think the key to appreciating Simmons is accepting him for what he is: a glue guy who does so at an all-star level. He will never be LeBron James. He will never be Magic Johnson. That doesn't mean he's not an excellent player in the correct role. We're just relying on him for a role he will never fill.

We need a genuine PG who can play on the perimeter and run the pick-n-roll with Embiid. Simmons can be GREAT as a do-it-all playmaker at the 3/4 and backup PG. Harris is more expendable and should be moved for CJ/DLO/Beal.

(PG)/Simmons
Richardson/Korkmaz
Simmons/Ennis/Thyblle
Horford/Scott
Embiid/KOQ

That 10-man rotation beats anyone in this league. I just don't know if that trade will come before the deadline.

Exactly!!!!

XtremeDunkz · Post #1393 » by **XtremeDunkz** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:30 am

SparksFly87 wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:I think the key to appreciating Simmons is accepting him for what he is: a glue guy who does so at an all-star level. He will never be LeBron James. He will never be Magic Johnson. That doesn't mean he's not an excellent player in the correct role. We're just relying on him for a role he will never fill.

We need a genuine PG who can play on the perimeter and run the pick-n-roll with Embiid. Simmons can be GREAT as a do-it-all playmaker at the 3/4 and backup PG. Harris is more expendable and should be moved for CJ/DLO/Beal.

(PG)/Simmons
Richardson/Korkmaz
Simmons/Ennis/Thyblle
Horford/Scott
Embiid/KOQ

That 10-man rotation beats anyone in this league. I just don't know if that trade will come before the deadline.

Exactly!!!!

Whats Ish Smith doing these days?

AI_Efficiency · Post #1394 » by **AI_Efficiency** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:28 am

XtremeDunkz wrote:
SparksFly87 wrote:
ProcessDoctor wrote:I think the key to appreciating Simmons is accepting him for what he is: a glue guy who does so at an all-star level. He will never be LeBron James. He will never be Magic Johnson. That doesn't mean he's not an excellent player in the correct role. We're just relying on him for a role he will never fill.

We need a genuine PG who can play on the perimeter and run the pick-n-roll with Embiid. Simmons can be GREAT as a do-it-all playmaker at the 3/4 and backup PG. Harris is more expendable and should be moved for CJ/DLO/Beal.

(PG)/Simmons
Richardson/Korkmaz
Simmons/Ennis/Thyblle
Horford/Scott
Embiid/KOQ

That 10-man rotation beats anyone in this league. I just don't know if that trade will come before the deadline.

Exactly!!!!

Whats Ish Smith doing these days?

Except some of the numbers out there say he’s not a glue guy that’s close to an all star level. 538’s new algorithm has him as having league average impact with Embiid as the one with star impact. The narrative of this team having two stars is so wrong imo. We have one star in embiid, and goodish players in Horford, Tobias, and Josh. At best, maybe Ben’s impact is above average. If we were starting a random other average to above average point guard with the rest of our roster, we wouldn’t miss a beat imo.

Kobblehead · Post #1395 » by **Kobblehead** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:33 am

Ben is scoring like 13 points per game. Of course he currently isn't and has never had a star impact.

Black Mage · Post #1396 » by **Black Mage** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:40 am

Would OKC swap SGA for Ben?

Would we want to do that deal?

Kobblehead · Post #1397 » by **Kobblehead** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:48 am

No chance, I would assume.

We'd have better luck with Collin Sexton and Cleveland (although nowhere near as well rounded as Shai).

Negrodamus · Post #1398 » by **Negrodamus** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:53 am

Black Mage wrote:Would OKC swap SGA for Ben?

Would we want to do that deal?

Already a 20 ppg scorer... unlikely. But I'd do it.

eyeatoma · Post #1399 » by **eyeatoma** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:12 am

Brown has to go too. Every player that comes here stagnates.

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Simmons25 · Post #1400 » by **Simmons25** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:06 am

ProcessDoctor wrote:I think the key to appreciating Simmons is accepting him for what he is: a glue guy who does so at an all-star level. He will never be LeBron James. He will never be Magic Johnson. That doesn't mean he's not an excellent player in the correct role. We're just relying on him for a role he will never fill.

We need a genuine PG who can play on the perimeter and run the pick-n-roll with Embiid. Simmons can be GREAT as a do-it-all playmaker at the 3/4 and backup PG. Harris is more expendable and should be moved for CJ/DLO/Beal.

(PG)/Simmons
Richardson/Korkmaz
Simmons/Ennis/Thyblle
Horford/Scott
Embiid/KOQ

That 10-man rotation beats anyone in this league. I just don't know if that trade will come before the deadline.

The problem with playing Simmons at the 3 or 4 is that the way the league is these days you need a stretch 3-4. A guy you can shoot. I mean if you reckon Ben clogs up the key for Embiid now playing the 1.... god can you imagine what it would be like if he was the 4.

In fact we know what it is like... we saw it in the playoffs against Toronto when they just put Ben in the 4 and gave Jimmy the ball. He was out a complete waste of space and just out there using up precious oxygen others on the planet could use.

There are only 2 options as far as I can see it and Ben needs to be told what the 2 options are.

1. He starts taking jumpers prior to the all-star break or;
2. Trade him for an above average point guard and some shooters.

The Sixers don't have 12 months for Ben to suddenly grow a heart and stop being a coward.