Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE)

HaroldinGMinor · Post #1401 » by **HaroldinGMinor** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:32 pm

People want to compare Mids and Brogdon when they should be comparing Bledsoe and Brogdon. Once Bleds was extended, Brogdon was gone.

Brewhoopfan · Post #1402 » by **Brewhoopfan** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:46 pm

Malcolm currently plays for the Pacers. He would be a complete moron to say anything less than "Indiana was my first choice."

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #1403 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:50 pm

Brewhoopfan wrote:Malcolm currently plays for the Pacers. He would be a complete moron to say anything less than "Indiana was my first choice."

nobody cares about that part of his or Giannis comments. its the part about wanting to move on and have his own team that sheds the light on this

Post #1404 » by **humanrefutation** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:51 pm

Turk Nowitzki wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
Turk Nowitzki wrote:Nice to have some confirmation on this. Wish it didn't have to be that way but hopefully people can put the pitchforks down now.

Eh, I don't take that as confirmation that he didn't want to be here. Of course he's going to say that he was excited to go to Indiana and that it's the right fit and such. That's who he plays for right now. That's who he signed an offer sheet with.

He isn't going to come out and say "I wanted to stay in Milwaukee, but they wouldn't have me." if the Bucks matched his offer sheet, I'm sure he'd be effusive about returning to a title contending team.

I mean, to me that is operating in pure denial given those quotes. He literally says he was pushing for his agents to get him to Indiana and it was time for him to move on from Milwaukee. To each his own I suppose.

I'm not sure what you mean by "pure denial." I wouldn't characterize your comments as "pure naivety." I'd just suggest looking at things in context and use a bit of common sense before taking everything he says at face value and rejecting other possible realities. I think it's clear he was interested in Indiana (and the money they offered him) because he signed an offer sheet there, but I also don't think this means he wouldn't have been happy if we matched.

Post #1405 » by **ReasonablySober** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:57 pm

If Bledsoe's turned a corner in this offense and this is the version we'll see (he'll make the All-Star team if he plays like this), I'll have been more than happy to go Bledsoe over Malcolm.

Post #1406 » by **humanrefutation** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:58 pm

Brewhoopfan wrote:Malcolm currently plays for the Pacers. He would be a complete moron to say anything less than "Indiana was my first choice."

There are folks here who are looking for any reason to justify letting Brogdon walk. There are lots of legitimate arguments to justify letting him go, but the whole "he wanted to be in Indiana!" comment isn't one of them. By that logic, no team should ever match an offer sheet in RFA.

Turk Nowitzki · Post #1407 » by **Turk Nowitzki** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:01 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
Brewhoopfan wrote:Malcolm currently plays for the Pacers. He would be a complete moron to say anything less than "Indiana was my first choice."

There are folks here who are looking for any reason to justify letting Brogdon walk. There are lots of legitimate arguments to justify letting him go, but the whole "he wanted to be in Indiana!" comment isn't one of them. By that logic, no team should ever match an offer sheet in RFA.

Using the direct quotes provided by Brogdon that he wanted to be in Indiana over Milwaukee is "looking for reasons" now? How is that not a valid reason?

kid idioteque · Post #1408 » by **kid idioteque** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:05 pm

I am no fan of Khris Middleton's contract but at least he wants to be here. Would I prefer Malcolm on his deal instead? Maybe, in theory. But there's no evidence he had ANY interest in staying and he doesn't owe us an explanation. If he asked the Bucks not to match, I'm glad they respected his wishes.

kid idioteque · Post #1409 » by **kid idioteque** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:05 pm

HaroldinGMinor wrote:People want to compare Mids and Brogdon when they should be comparing Bledsoe and Brogdon. Once Bleds was extended, Brogdon was gone.

I agree, and at least right now Bledsoe is a better fit at PG and a better value.

kid idioteque · Post #1410 » by **kid idioteque** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:08 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
Turk Nowitzki wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
Eh, I don't take that as confirmation that he didn't want to be here. Of course he's going to say that he was excited to go to Indiana and that it's the right fit and such. That's who he plays for right now. That's who he signed an offer sheet with.

He isn't going to come out and say "I wanted to stay in Milwaukee, but they wouldn't have me." if the Bucks matched his offer sheet, I'm sure he'd be effusive about returning to a title contending team.

I mean, to me that is operating in pure denial given those quotes. He literally says he was pushing for his agents to get him to Indiana and it was time for him to move on from Milwaukee. To each his own I suppose.

I'm not sure what you mean by "pure denial." I wouldn't characterize your comments as "pure naivety." I'd just suggest looking at things in context and use a bit of common sense before taking everything he says at face value and rejecting other possible realities. I think it's clear he was interested in Indiana (and the money they offered him) because he signed an offer sheet there, but I also don't think this means he wouldn't have been happy if we matched.

I don't think the Pacers specifically had anything to do with it. He clearly wanted to not be a Buck anymore. For whatever reason(s).

Post #1411 » by **humanrefutation** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:13 pm

Turk Nowitzki wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
Brewhoopfan wrote:Malcolm currently plays for the Pacers. He would be a complete moron to say anything less than "Indiana was my first choice."

There are folks here who are looking for any reason to justify letting Brogdon walk. There are lots of legitimate arguments to justify letting him go, but the whole "he wanted to be in Indiana!" comment isn't one of them. By that logic, no team should ever match an offer sheet in RFA.

Using the direct quotes provided by Brogdon that he wanted to be in Indiana over Milwaukee is "looking for reasons" now? How is that not a valid reason?

No. I think people using that as evidence that he would have been some sort of malcontent if we matched - that he would have been upset to be paid $20m+ per year to play for a title contender, that he wouldn't have said wonderful things about staying in Milwaukee if he re-signed - is "looking for reasons" to justify not bringing him back.

Chuck Diesel · Post #1412 » by **Chuck Diesel** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:15 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
Turk Nowitzki wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
There are folks here who are looking for any reason to justify letting Brogdon walk. There are lots of legitimate arguments to justify letting him go, but the whole "he wanted to be in Indiana!" comment isn't one of them. By that logic, no team should ever match an offer sheet in RFA.

Using the direct quotes provided by Brogdon that he wanted to be in Indiana over Milwaukee is "looking for reasons" now? How is that not a valid reason?

No. I think people using that as evidence that he would have been some sort of malcontent if we matched - that he would have been upset to be paid $20m+ per year to play for a title contender, that he wouldn't have said wonderful things about staying in Milwaukee if he re-signed - is "looking for reasons" to justify not bringing him back.

100% this.

kid idioteque · Post #1413 » by **kid idioteque** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:21 pm

humanrefutation wrote:No. I think people using that as evidence that he would have been some sort of malcontent if we matched - that he would have been upset to be paid $20m+ per year to play for a title contender, that he wouldn't have said wonderful things about staying in Milwaukee if he re-signed - is "looking for reasons" to justify not bringing him back.

You're being willfully ignorant of the reports during the season last year that one starter was unhappy.

Sure, maybe Malcolm would've been totally fine staying but all circumstantial evidence points to "probably not."

If you were an owner you'd probably have a tough time giving 80 million dollars to an unhappy, injury prone player.

Turk Nowitzki · Post #1414 » by **Turk Nowitzki** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:25 pm

Chuck Diesel wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
Turk Nowitzki wrote:Using the direct quotes provided by Brogdon that he wanted to be in Indiana over Milwaukee is "looking for reasons" now? How is that not a valid reason?

No. I think people using that as evidence that he would have been some sort of malcontent if we matched - that he would have been upset to be paid $20m+ per year to play for a title contender, that he wouldn't have said wonderful things about staying in Milwaukee if he re-signed - is "looking for reasons" to justify not bringing him back.

100% this.

Well that's moving the goalposts a little bit. It was originally suggested that these comments couldn't be interpreted to mean that he didn't want to be here. I don't think it can be much clearer that he preferred to be elsewhere.

"Should you match and hope for the best even though he declared his preference to not be in Milwaukee" is the real question to be discussed, I agree with that. Not sure there's a way of knowing what the outcome would be there. It's a risky thing to do.

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #1415 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:28 pm

humanrefutation wrote:
Brewhoopfan wrote:Malcolm currently plays for the Pacers. He would be a complete moron to say anything less than "Indiana was my first choice."

There are folks here who are looking for any reason to justify letting Brogdon walk. There are lots of legitimate arguments to justify letting him go, but the whole "he wanted to be in Indiana!" comment isn't one of them. By that logic, no team should ever match an offer sheet in RFA.

we let him walk and none of us are insiders so why wouldn't we look for reasons to justify it? certainly the front office had their reasons and apparently brogdon had his too. being in denial about the existence of some legitimate reasons for this decision other than "the owners being cheap" ......when every other sign weve seen from this ownership group is that they aren't...... is the group that's out on a limb

Post #1416 » by **humanrefutation** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:33 pm

kid idioteque wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:No. I think people using that as evidence that he would have been some sort of malcontent if we matched - that he would have been upset to be paid $20m+ per year to play for a title contender, that he wouldn't have said wonderful things about staying in Milwaukee if he re-signed - is "looking for reasons" to justify not bringing him back.

You're being willfully ignorant of the reports during the season last year that one starter was unhappy.

Sure, maybe Malcolm would've been totally fine staying but all circumstantial evidence points to "probably not."

If you were an owner you'd probably have a tough time giving 80 million dollars to an unhappy, injury prone player.

No, I'm not being "willfully ignorant" of anything. You're just making a lot of assumptions to justify whatever narrative you've established in your head about Brogdon's departure.

I'm not saying that it isn't possible that Brogdon didn't want to be here, nor am I saying that he is lying about wanting to be in Indiana. I'm just saying that I don't find "confirmation" of anything in those quotes other than the fact that he wants the media to report that he's happy in Indiana. That has little to do with whether I think we should have matched - we won't know what happened behind-the-scenes or how Malcolm really felt about the Bucks, nor do we know the scope of the non-basketball factors that drove his decision to depart, and how that influenced our decision to let him go

JimmyTheKid · Post #1417 » by **JimmyTheKid** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:35 pm

Context is important. And we still don't have that. So we're all free to speculate away.

Here are some suggestions floated over the past few months: Which is most likely knowing what we know of Malcolm Brogdon?

Did he simply want out of Milwaukee because he hates the city?
Did he simply want out of Milwaukee because he hates the cold?
Did he not get along with Giannis?
Did he simply want a bigger role and knew that wouldn't be happening after finding out Middleton was getting the max?
Did he simply want a green light to chuck for ppgz and chase personal glory?

Post #1418 » by **humanrefutation** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:36 pm

JimmyTheKid wrote:Context is important. And we still don't have that. So we're all free to speculate away.

Here are some suggestions floated over the past few months: Which is most likely knowing what we know of Malcolm Brogdon?

Did he simply want out of Milwaukee because he hates the city?
Did he simply want out of Milwaukee because he hates the cold?
Did he not get along with Giannis?
Did he simply want a bigger role and knew that wouldn't be happening after finding out Middleton was getting the max?
Did he simply want a green light to chuck for ppgz and chase personal glory?

Did he want the most money and the Bucks weren't willing to pay him what Indiana paid him?

Ron Swanson · Post #1419 » by **Ron Swanson** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:36 pm

The whole "he didn't want to be here" thing is irrelevant. He was a restricted free agent. Unless you thought he'd become a complete malcontent and locker room cancer (based on literally everything we know about him, I seriously doubt it) it didn't matter where he wanted to be. We could have kept both him and Middleton.

I just wish I had anywhere near as strong of opinions and certainty about the move as apparently the rest of you do. Because whether it was the right move or not isn't going to be determined until the end of the postseason at the very least, and even further out than that unless we're all sitting here celebrating a championship in 7 months.

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #1420 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:37 pm

we got players making 80+ million all over this league who are malcontent and demanding out. with what we know now it appears he was even demanding out of last years amazing run. I think its cute some of you guys think we should have spent 85 million forcing him to come back simply because we could.

considering the nature of how the rest of this team gets along and how well they play without him all I can say with all my heart is.... Malcolm brogdon can go **** his pompous glass feet bad back hurt leg too good for milwaukee self promoting smarter than the coach have it all whatever whatever ass