The Front Office is failing this team

[Phreak50]

For all the talk about how we 'find' hidden gems and develop players, we are in a position where we look to be on the wrong end of those statements.

I believe our team is quite possibly the worst structured in the league. Almost nothing works, no one fits.

But the thing that is rubbing salt into the wound is the players that have left are flourishing in a way we never saw here.

We always hear, 'man get him to the Spurs, can you imagine how he'd improve there?' but now it's the opposite.

I know the Bertans trade didn't work out with us losing Morris anyway but look at David's confidence. 12 ppg and hitting 3/7 threes on average. The Wizards, while potentially in tank mode, are letting him have a green light. Some of his misses or defense's lapses would have had him yanked mid game in San Antonio and worse, hit with DNP the next.

There's a trend where Pop simply destroys the confidence of his young players with his 'edgy' approach and it's currently happening to Lonnie Walker imo. We'll have a Markelle Fultz situation on our hands with Lonnie if we're not careful.

A little late with this one but Dwayne Dedmon hitting over 100 threes at about 35% since he left us. Pop literally didn't play his starting centre when it came to the playoffs and yeah Dedmon's matchups were a big part of that but he has almost unmatched athleticism (bar Metu) against our current bigs and can stretch the floor.

And if I remember right, we couldn't or didn't want to pay Aaron Baynes but look what he has developed into? A solid starter, a floor stretching three point shoot, a decent defender and shot blocker. Currently top 15 in PER. Starting centre 18/38 on threes. Our starting small forward has attempted a total of 1 three all year...

We've paid the wrong guys, let the wrong guys go. Held onto older guys way too long (Manu should have retired 2 years before he did and was still out there taking minutes from younger guys and halting their development).

We'll lose Walker and he'll star elsewhere.

The front office also brought in a guy that just doesn't fit our system with the Kawhi trade and were too focused on not giving the Lakers what they wanted instead of focusing on what we needed.

Ingram is looking like a future superstar right now. Josh Hart and or Ball could have starred here or been good trade bait for other players. We get blinded by how nice a guy Poetl is but he hasn't shown he can do much to be brutally honest.

Sure a lot of this is hindsight but so is the answer of why other teams usually miss the talent the Spurs find.

The front office is letting the fans down, letting the coach down and the coach is then making a bunch of wrong decisions as well.

I've never been so lost watching this team. Closing in on 30 years a fan and getting hard to watch.

[G R E Y]

Yeah no. I've tried the pragmatic approach to your ideas, but frankly the doom and gloom without ANY sense of balance is on you, not the FO.

This is a team in transition, one that was pushed into faster than it anticipated.

Just about every player you mention - Davis, Dedmon -- are we STILL talking about some random journeyman??, Ingram - are simply not difference makers on their teams. And each player is presented by you in a vacuum. Ingram MAY have come along with Hart, but there's not a snowball's chance in hell we'd have taken Ball, and we'd have to have taken the dead weight contract of Deng back. But no mention of the impact of those players, or that none of them are making their respective teams any better. The reason why their stats are better is because they are empty on bad teams.

What proof is there that Lonnie is getting so discouraged he'll leave? Did any of Tony, Manu, Timmy, Derrick, Bryn, Davis, Dejounte leave? Instead, they all went through the development phase and earned their minutes. They and the team was better for it each time. Lonnie simply has not shown enough in the minutes given, and you have no proof that things will be the same in terms of line-ups or minutes distribution going forward. In fact, as I've already explained in another thread, there is instead precedent for Pop to make adjustments as he did after 10-14 games last season and the season prior.

I think Pop has earned the right to do things the way we do them, and his support of players as well as having high expectations is well known. Lonnie has said he knows he has to earn his minutes and why.

I have yet to see what alternatives you propose or any comments on the Spurs forum when the team does well. We started 4-1 and not one post. We struggle for five games, and it's like your viewing world is falling apart. Not sure that's all on the team to solve.

[Phreak50]

You throw out 'gloom and doom' sure.

Yet I say you think the sun shines out of the behinds of every player on this team and they are never at fault.

They'll get better, it's early, keep saying that after every embarrassing loss and the first non playoff year in a while.

My post was exactly what you said it wasn't .

This franchise likes to brag about all their success yet never admit to their failures. Just like you.

And Pop has clearly lost interest. He doesn't want to be out there. He had the most talented team in the world cup and failed miserably.

He likes to preach to young guys and yank them when they look at him the wrong way yet allows people like Marco to shoot circus fadeways after turning down a wide open look.

He benches young guys when they fail on a box out yet allows Aldridge to stand and watch on both ends of the floor for 20 minutes of his playtime each night. He simply refuses to criticise Aldridge because he knows how sensitive he is. So the younger guys cop it as deferred pain instead.

Open your eyes, this franchise is in trouble.

[G R E Y]

Actually I point out what the team did well and not well after every game. I'm just not chronically bent towards negativity and try to present some semblance of balance.

You have no proof that Pop has lost interest, so I don't see why anyone should take that premise as a given. He's fighting with refs about calls, coaching players on the sidelines during FTs, and players for FIBA and Spurs all say he's as engaged as ever. So the burden of proof is yours.

Beli's sole purpose is to move without the ball - check, and make shots - not check, and his minutes have been cut in these past ten games such that he ends quarters and begins them. Yesterday he had 6 minutes in the first half. So guess what? That's an adjustment.

You have not addressed any of the responses about the players you mentioned would have helped the team so much. Curious. Instead, there's a whole new litany of complaints. Now it's LMA standing around and watching for 20 minutes on both ends. There's no end to it with you, and you have to exaggerate to do it. LMA has not had a great start, but he didn't last season either, and then his game locked in at around game 15 or so, and then he ended up with his best most efficient season of his career. I don't recall you giving any credit for that then, and from the looks of things, don't expect any for the good he and team do.

Young guys have to earn their minutes as I've explained. It makes them better. Lonnie has confirmed he has to play better and earn his minutes. So are you disagreeing with him, too?

We started the season 4-1 and you were nowhere to be found. We are 1-4 the last five, and you are talking about your 30-year embarrassment in three threads (Spurs, GB, Celtics). So unless there's some balance in looking at what the team does well in addition to what it needs to work on, this without overblowing the importance of too small a sample size, it's hard to take this position as anything other than a vehicle for angst that the team in transition is disproportionately being blamed for.

[okan]

The front oflfice has the credit for failing us.
We beat Detroit, Miami, Nets, Cavs and Knicks for our championships and we know where are they know.Spurs compeye for title almost 2 decades, it meant something.
I don' t like this team either, especially Lma and Derozan as our maun guys but i expect and accept this situation after big 3 gone and loose Kawhi.

I have faith for our front office, they are struggling right now but they manage to di something soon, by soon i mean couple of years.

I am a Spurs fan for 18 years which i started highschool by that time there are no livestream from internet and the only chance i watch Spurs games was television which only 1 channel gave NBA games and it was like 1 or 2 games per week, for Spurs game, it was 4-5 games per regular seasons of course i found more Spurs games for playoffs.When we sign Hedo Türkoğlu TV streamd mostly Spurs games I get up 3 or 4 AM which games start at that time in Turkey, watched Those games with lowest volume possible because everyone else were sleeping, sometimes my mom caught me and she kept asking if my mental health is ok because according to her staying up for watching basketbol game is sign for stupitidy Now i am 31 years old and i usually awake at nights thanks to Those days.
I watched great players, great teams, i saw 4 chips and i want to thank all who contributed, Those were good days.Just want to write.

Redmi S2 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi

[imagump1313]

Phreak50 has some points but is a little overboard. I think everyone is just frustrated at this point.


Our front office isn't stupid. They see exactly what we see only they have much, much more information to work with than any of us.

I 100% agree with NEVER dealing with the Lakers ever unless its a total landslide in our favor. And Ball, Ingram and Hart were not it.
Baynes is a nice player but we couldn't afford to keep him. Yeah it sucks but it happens.

Bertans is doing just what he did for us, being a bit player. Washington will find out just like we did that you cannot rely on him for anything more than a small bit role off the bench. We got Lyles in a roundabout way but its obvious he has a much higher ceiling that Bertans. Honestly we were at the point of no return with him anyway. Do you really think he would have welcomed staying here if that deal fell through and we were allowed to keep him instead of Morris?

Dedmon really? Dedmon? He is a filler player. I liked him but he wanted bigger money and we weren't going to pay him starter money for being a role player. I'd invite anyone to go check the Sacramento forums and see how much they like Dedmon.

Its obvious Walker is in over his head. IMO he was given the red carpet before he even played a minute here, fans anointed him a star without letting it play out and I think a little of that went to his head to the point where he thought he could just show up and play and it would all work out for him so he forgot about busting his ass to become a professional player. I think he should be sent to Austin at this point and we can look at him again after Christmas to see if he has figured that out.

Like I said, the FO sees the same things we do. I think they know DeRozan isnt going to work out here and they are quietly seeing what they can get. I think they know Belinelli can't do the things he used to but they have little options with Walker being a flop at this point.

I wasn't going to say anything about Derozan until about the 25 game mark. I was hoping something would spark him by then but its not looking so. He just doesn't seem invested in this team and hasn't since he has been here. Maybe he just cant get over being traded, who knows? Maybe thats just how he is? Like I said, the FO would know more about that than we would.

Grey is right not to panic at this point. Lets let it play out a little.
Anyway, dont take Phreak's post too personally. He is just frustrated like the rest of us.

[NoZoLakers]

Yeah no. I've tried the pragmatic approach to your ideas, but frankly the doom and gloom without ANY sense of balance is on you, not the FO.

This is a team in transition, one that was pushed into faster than it anticipated.

Just about every player you mention - Davis, Dedmon -- are we STILL talking about some random journeyman??, Ingram - are simply not difference makers on their teams. And each player is presented by you in a vacuum. Ingram MAY have come along with Hart, but there's not a snowball's chance in hell we'd have taken Ball, and we'd have to have taken the dead weight contract of Deng back. But no mention of the impact of those players, or that none of them are making their respective teams any better. The reason why their stats are better is because they are empty on bad teams.

What proof is there that Lonnie is getting so discouraged he'll leave? Did any of Tony, Manu, Timmy, Derrick, Bryn, Davis, Dejounte leave? Instead, they all went through the development phase and earned their minutes. They and the team was better for it each time. Lonnie simply has not shown enough in the minutes given, and you have no proof that things will be the same in terms of line-ups or minutes distribution going forward. In fact, as I've already explained in another thread, there is instead precedent for Pop to make adjustments as he did after 10-14 games last season and the season prior.

I think Pop has earned the right to do things the way we do them, and his support of players as well as having high expectations is well known. Lonnie has said he knows he has to earn his minutes and why.

I have yet to see what alternatives you propose or any comments on the Spurs forum when the team does well. We started 4-1 and not one post. We struggle for five games, and it's like your viewing world is falling apart. Not sure that's all on the team to solve.

have to interject here, while ingram, hart, ball might not have been difference makers, DD wasn't going to be either in the sense of being a true championship contender. Pop hatred of dealing with LA blinded him to what was best for the future, DD was never going to put Spurs over the top, his "all-star" status just made the trade more palatable to the general public. Ingram IMO was/is the perfect type of player for Pop and Spurs culture, he only care about bball, out of all off LA's #2 picks he was the most well rounded and did not let the lime light affect him nor was he into the "social media" and getting his name out there like Russell and Ball. Also in terms of Ball, he did not have to go to SA, there were plenty of teams willing to give up assets for him once Pelicans agreed to the trade. So yes I agree with OP take, Pop hatred clouded his judgement on what would've been best for Spurs future, DD isn't part of that future either now as you guys are shopping him. Also LA was not trying to include Deng into the pkg, he was already stretched waived and not to mention Ball/Ingram salary nearly matched Leonard already.

[G R E Y]

Yeah no. I've tried the pragmatic approach to your ideas, but frankly the doom and gloom without ANY sense of balance is on you, not the FO.

This is a team in transition, one that was pushed into faster than it anticipated.

Just about every player you mention - Davis, Dedmon -- are we STILL talking about some random journeyman??, Ingram - are simply not difference makers on their teams. And each player is presented by you in a vacuum. Ingram MAY have come along with Hart, but there's not a snowball's chance in hell we'd have taken Ball, and we'd have to have taken the dead weight contract of Deng back. But no mention of the impact of those players, or that none of them are making their respective teams any better. The reason why their stats are better is because they are empty on bad teams.

What proof is there that Lonnie is getting so discouraged he'll leave? Did any of Tony, Manu, Timmy, Derrick, Bryn, Davis, Dejounte leave? Instead, they all went through the development phase and earned their minutes. They and the team was better for it each time. Lonnie simply has not shown enough in the minutes given, and you have no proof that things will be the same in terms of line-ups or minutes distribution going forward. In fact, as I've already explained in another thread, there is instead precedent for Pop to make adjustments as he did after 10-14 games last season and the season prior.

I think Pop has earned the right to do things the way we do them, and his support of players as well as having high expectations is well known. Lonnie has said he knows he has to earn his minutes and why.

I have yet to see what alternatives you propose or any comments on the Spurs forum when the team does well. We started 4-1 and not one post. We struggle for five games, and it's like your viewing world is falling apart. Not sure that's all on the team to solve.

have to interject here, while ingram, hart, ball might not have been difference makers, DD wasn't going to be either in the sense of being a true championship contender. Pop hatred of dealing with LA blinded him to what was best for the future, DD was never going to put Spurs over the top, his "all-star" status just made the trade more palatable to the general public. Ingram IMO was/is the perfect type of player for Pop and Spurs culture, he only care about bball, out of all off LA's #2 picks he was the most well rounded and did not let the lime light affect him nor was he into the "social media" and getting his name out there like Russell and Ball. Also in terms of Ball, he did not have to go to SA, there were plenty of teams willing to give up assets for him once Pelicans agreed to the trade. So yes I agree with OP take, Pop hatred clouded his judgement on what would've been best for Spurs future, DD isn't part of that future either now as you guys are shopping him. Also LA was not trying to include Deng into the pkg, he was already stretched waived and not to mention Ball/Ingram salary nearly matched Leonard already.

People keep making it seem like a - Pop was solely out to screw LA and b - he did not do what was best for the Spurs.

Ingram in a vacuum is a player the Spurs could have used, sure. But at the time he also had a medical issue, and the additions of Hart, Ball were nowhere near the quality of player that DeMar is, as much maligned he is. DeMar filled a scoring void we needed badly, Ball is redundant, and Jakob filled a need at C for us (Pau was already on the wrong side of the wrong side). I seem to recall that one of the permutations offered was a bad contract we had to take on, but it was a fluid situation. What these other teams were willing to give for Ball is hypothetical.

It's simply incorrect to assume that Pop hurt the franchise or that he made the decision by himself. Those who follow the Spurs know that it's been a committee decision making process for a very long time. In fact, it was current GM (then assistant to RC) Wright who did a lot of the homework on the packages. Pop's mind has been changed on occasion, and he invites different voices to the decision making process. That this was the trade that was made indicates consensus among those voices. That's not to shy away from or diminish Pop's impact in the decision, but let's not make it sound as it this was some burn the team move that drowned out other voices. It was a deal agreed upon by those always in the decision-making inner circle.

Our goal in trades has long been to do what's best a - for now and b - for the future. We were never going to get some sort of monster package given the circumstances, and it wasn't about putting us over the top, but mitigating as much as we could. The fact that we shored up three needs - two in terms of position, one in terms of youth, one in terms of pick (Keldon Johnson) is actually far better than pundits in SA thought they could get.

A lot of this is armchair stuff is rooted in a premeditated dislike of Pop and his ways channeled into various specific moves that are actually doing just what they were supposed to.

That's not a slight on you, NZL, just a pattern from some that keeps appearing. Most of the trades proposed do not happen. As it stands, we did very well given our objectives and the positions we filled.

[NoZoLakers]

Yeah no. I've tried the pragmatic approach to your ideas, but frankly the doom and gloom without ANY sense of balance is on you, not the FO.

This is a team in transition, one that was pushed into faster than it anticipated.

Just about every player you mention - Davis, Dedmon -- are we STILL talking about some random journeyman??, Ingram - are simply not difference makers on their teams. And each player is presented by you in a vacuum. Ingram MAY have come along with Hart, but there's not a snowball's chance in hell we'd have taken Ball, and we'd have to have taken the dead weight contract of Deng back. But no mention of the impact of those players, or that none of them are making their respective teams any better. The reason why their stats are better is because they are empty on bad teams.

What proof is there that Lonnie is getting so discouraged he'll leave? Did any of Tony, Manu, Timmy, Derrick, Bryn, Davis, Dejounte leave? Instead, they all went through the development phase and earned their minutes. They and the team was better for it each time. Lonnie simply has not shown enough in the minutes given, and you have no proof that things will be the same in terms of line-ups or minutes distribution going forward. In fact, as I've already explained in another thread, there is instead precedent for Pop to make adjustments as he did after 10-14 games last season and the season prior.

I think Pop has earned the right to do things the way we do them, and his support of players as well as having high expectations is well known. Lonnie has said he knows he has to earn his minutes and why.

I have yet to see what alternatives you propose or any comments on the Spurs forum when the team does well. We started 4-1 and not one post. We struggle for five games, and it's like your viewing world is falling apart. Not sure that's all on the team to solve.

have to interject here, while ingram, hart, ball might not have been difference makers, DD wasn't going to be either in the sense of being a true championship contender. Pop hatred of dealing with LA blinded him to what was best for the future, DD was never going to put Spurs over the top, his "all-star" status just made the trade more palatable to the general public. Ingram IMO was/is the perfect type of player for Pop and Spurs culture, he only care about bball, out of all off LA's #2 picks he was the most well rounded and did not let the lime light affect him nor was he into the "social media" and getting his name out there like Russell and Ball. Also in terms of Ball, he did not have to go to SA, there were plenty of teams willing to give up assets for him once Pelicans agreed to the trade. So yes I agree with OP take, Pop hatred clouded his judgement on what would've been best for Spurs future, DD isn't part of that future either now as you guys are shopping him. Also LA was not trying to include Deng into the pkg, he was already stretched waived and not to mention Ball/Ingram salary nearly matched Leonard already.

People keep making it seem like a - Pop was solely out to screw LA and b - he did not do what was best for the Spurs.

Ingram in a vacuum is a player the Spurs could have used, sure. But at the time he also had a medical issue, and the additions of Hart, Ball were nowhere near the quality of player that DeMar is, as much as maligned he is. DeMar filled a scoring void we needed badly, Ball is redundant, and Jakob filled a need at C for us (Pau was already on the wrong side of the wrong side). I seem to recall that one of the permutations that was offered was a bad contract we had to take on, but it was a fluid situation. What these other teams were willing to give for Ball is hypothetical.

It's simply incorrect to assume that Pop hurt the franchise or that he made the decision by himself. Those who follow the Spurs know that it's been a committee decision making process for a very long time. In fact, it was current GM (then assistant to RC) Wright who did a lot of the homework on the packages. Pop's mind has been changed on occasion, and he invites different voices to the decision making process. That this was the trade that was made indicates consensus among those voices. That's not to shy away from or diminish Pop's impact in the decision, but let's not make it sound as it this was some burn the team move that drowned out other voices. It was a deal agreed upon by those always in the decision-making inner circle.

Our goal in trades has long been to do what's best a - for now and b - for the future. We were never going to get some sort of monster package given the circumstances, and it wasn't about putting us over the top, but mitigating as much as we could. The fact that we shored up three needs - two in terms of position, one in terms of youth, one in terms of pick (Keldon Johnson) is actually far better than pundits in SA thought they could get.

A lot of this is armchair stuff is rooted in a premeditated dislike of Pop and his ways channeled into various specific moves that are actually doing just what they were supposed to.

That's not a slight on you, NZL, just a pattern from some that keeps appearing. Most of the trades proposed do not happen. As it stands, we did very well given our objectives and the positions we filled.

Ingram didn't have that injury till the end of last season, Leonard trade happened before that season started.....2ndly Magic was still President of Bball Ops and he was desperate AF to get another star so you GM would easily gotten the exact same pkg we gave up for AD or close to it maybe 1 less pick swap at best, at that time mgmt was trying to get the James, PG and Leonard trio so Magic was willing to do whatever it took to get that 1st domino which was Kawahi. By stating that fact, maybe that also factored into Spurs thinking of not allowing and or preventing LA from forming such a trio. The ball trade maybe hypothetical but there were teams willing to give value for him that may have been better than Potle as well. One thing for sure you would've gotten more than 1 pick from us as oppose to that low end pick you got from Tor. Also I do believe pop was out to screw both LA team because thats where Leonard wanted to go, hell even LAC might given a better pkg for your future as well at that pt in time it was reported LAC was willing to give up both of those late lotto picks before the draft and even after the draft it was rumored they would give up both picks, either LA opt was/is a better future for the Spurs IMO, again DD wasn't going to take Spurs anywhere

[G R E Y]

have to interject here, while ingram, hart, ball might not have been difference makers, DD wasn't going to be either in the sense of being a true championship contender. Pop hatred of dealing with LA blinded him to what was best for the future, DD was never going to put Spurs over the top, his "all-star" status just made the trade more palatable to the general public. Ingram IMO was/is the perfect type of player for Pop and Spurs culture, he only care about bball, out of all off LA's #2 picks he was the most well rounded and did not let the lime light affect him nor was he into the "social media" and getting his name out there like Russell and Ball. Also in terms of Ball, he did not have to go to SA, there were plenty of teams willing to give up assets for him once Pelicans agreed to the trade. So yes I agree with OP take, Pop hatred clouded his judgement on what would've been best for Spurs future, DD isn't part of that future either now as you guys are shopping him. Also LA was not trying to include Deng into the pkg, he was already stretched waived and not to mention Ball/Ingram salary nearly matched Leonard already.

People keep making it seem like a - Pop was solely out to screw LA and b - he did not do what was best for the Spurs.

Ingram in a vacuum is a player the Spurs could have used, sure. But at the time he also had a medical issue, and the additions of Hart, Ball were nowhere near the quality of player that DeMar is, as much as maligned he is. DeMar filled a scoring void we needed badly, Ball is redundant, and Jakob filled a need at C for us (Pau was already on the wrong side of the wrong side). I seem to recall that one of the permutations that was offered was a bad contract we had to take on, but it was a fluid situation. What these other teams were willing to give for Ball is hypothetical.

It's simply incorrect to assume that Pop hurt the franchise or that he made the decision by himself. Those who follow the Spurs know that it's been a committee decision making process for a very long time. In fact, it was current GM (then assistant to RC) Wright who did a lot of the homework on the packages. Pop's mind has been changed on occasion, and he invites different voices to the decision making process. That this was the trade that was made indicates consensus among those voices. That's not to shy away from or diminish Pop's impact in the decision, but let's not make it sound as it this was some burn the team move that drowned out other voices. It was a deal agreed upon by those always in the decision-making inner circle.

Our goal in trades has long been to do what's best a - for now and b - for the future. We were never going to get some sort of monster package given the circumstances, and it wasn't about putting us over the top, but mitigating as much as we could. The fact that we shored up three needs - two in terms of position, one in terms of youth, one in terms of pick (Keldon Johnson) is actually far better than pundits in SA thought they could get.

A lot of this is armchair stuff is rooted in a premeditated dislike of Pop and his ways channeled into various specific moves that are actually doing just what they were supposed to.

That's not a slight on you, NZL, just a pattern from some that keeps appearing. Most of the trades proposed do not happen. As it stands, we did very well given our objectives and the positions we filled.

Ingram didn't have that injury till the end of last season, Leonard trade happened before that season started.....2ndly Magic was still President of Bball Ops and he was desperate AF to get another star so you GM would easily gotten the exact same pkg we gave up for AD or close to it maybe 1 less pick swap at best, at that time mgmt was trying to get the James, PG and Leonard trio so Magic was willing to do whatever it took to get that 1st domino which was Kawahi. By stating that fact, maybe that also factored into Spurs thinking of not allowing and or preventing LA from forming such a trio. The ball trade maybe hypothetical but there were teams willing to give value for him that may have been better than Potle as well. One thing for sure you would've gotten more than 1 pick from us as oppose to that low end pick you got from Tor. Also I do believe pop was out to screw both LA team because thats where Leonard wanted to go, hell even LAC might given a better pkg for your future as well at that pt in time it was reported LAC was willing to give up both of those late lotto picks before the draft and even after the draft it was rumored they would give up both picks, either LA opt was/is a better future for the Spurs IMO, again DD wasn't going to take Spurs anywhere

Fair point about Ingram injury.

It wasn't about screwing LA, but I do think accommodating #2 and his group was the least of our priorities given how they completely screwed the Spurs over.

As to the bold part, there is zero evidence of that. Anyway, no point in rehashing all of this now. I've said pretty much all I have to say about that chapter. It looks like the Spurs are happy with the deal then and now.

[NoZoLakers]

People keep making it seem like a - Pop was solely out to screw LA and b - he did not do what was best for the Spurs.

Ingram in a vacuum is a player the Spurs could have used, sure. But at the time he also had a medical issue, and the additions of Hart, Ball were nowhere near the quality of player that DeMar is, as much as maligned he is. DeMar filled a scoring void we needed badly, Ball is redundant, and Jakob filled a need at C for us (Pau was already on the wrong side of the wrong side). I seem to recall that one of the permutations that was offered was a bad contract we had to take on, but it was a fluid situation. What these other teams were willing to give for Ball is hypothetical.

It's simply incorrect to assume that Pop hurt the franchise or that he made the decision by himself. Those who follow the Spurs know that it's been a committee decision making process for a very long time. In fact, it was current GM (then assistant to RC) Wright who did a lot of the homework on the packages. Pop's mind has been changed on occasion, and he invites different voices to the decision making process. That this was the trade that was made indicates consensus among those voices. That's not to shy away from or diminish Pop's impact in the decision, but let's not make it sound as it this was some burn the team move that drowned out other voices. It was a deal agreed upon by those always in the decision-making inner circle.

Our goal in trades has long been to do what's best a - for now and b - for the future. We were never going to get some sort of monster package given the circumstances, and it wasn't about putting us over the top, but mitigating as much as we could. The fact that we shored up three needs - two in terms of position, one in terms of youth, one in terms of pick (Keldon Johnson) is actually far better than pundits in SA thought they could get.

A lot of this is armchair stuff is rooted in a premeditated dislike of Pop and his ways channeled into various specific moves that are actually doing just what they were supposed to.

That's not a slight on you, NZL, just a pattern from some that keeps appearing. Most of the trades proposed do not happen. As it stands, we did very well given our objectives and the positions we filled.

Ingram didn't have that injury till the end of last season, Leonard trade happened before that season started.....2ndly Magic was still President of Bball Ops and he was desperate AF to get another star so you GM would easily gotten the exact same pkg we gave up for AD or close to it maybe 1 less pick swap at best, at that time mgmt was trying to get the James, PG and Leonard trio so Magic was willing to do whatever it took to get that 1st domino which was Kawahi. By stating that fact, maybe that also factored into Spurs thinking of not allowing and or preventing LA from forming such a trio. The ball trade maybe hypothetical but there were teams willing to give value for him that may have been better than Potle as well. One thing for sure you would've gotten more than 1 pick from us as oppose to that low end pick you got from Tor. Also I do believe pop was out to screw both LA team because thats where Leonard wanted to go, hell even LAC might given a better pkg for your future as well at that pt in time it was reported LAC was willing to give up both of those late lotto picks before the draft and even after the draft it was rumored they would give up both picks, either LA opt was/is a better future for the Spurs IMO, again DD wasn't going to take Spurs anywhere

Fair point about Ingram injury.

It wasn't about screwing LA, but I do think accommodating #2 and his group was the least of our priorities given how they completely screwed the Spurs over.

As to the bold part, there is zero evidence of that. Anyway, no point in rehashing all of this now. I've said pretty much all I have to say about that chapter. It looks like the Spurs are happy with the deal then and now.

rumors thats spurs are shopping dd = being happy about the trade?

[G R E Y]

Ingram didn't have that injury till the end of last season, Leonard trade happened before that season started.....2ndly Magic was still President of Bball Ops and he was desperate AF to get another star so you GM would easily gotten the exact same pkg we gave up for AD or close to it maybe 1 less pick swap at best, at that time mgmt was trying to get the James, PG and Leonard trio so Magic was willing to do whatever it took to get that 1st domino which was Kawahi. By stating that fact, maybe that also factored into Spurs thinking of not allowing and or preventing LA from forming such a trio. The ball trade maybe hypothetical but there were teams willing to give value for him that may have been better than Potle as well. One thing for sure you would've gotten more than 1 pick from us as oppose to that low end pick you got from Tor. Also I do believe pop was out to screw both LA team because thats where Leonard wanted to go, hell even LAC might given a better pkg for your future as well at that pt in time it was reported LAC was willing to give up both of those late lotto picks before the draft and even after the draft it was rumored they would give up both picks, either LA opt was/is a better future for the Spurs IMO, again DD wasn't going to take Spurs anywhere

Fair point about Ingram injury.

It wasn't about screwing LA, but I do think accommodating #2 and his group was the least of our priorities given how they completely screwed the Spurs over.

As to the bold part, there is zero evidence of that. Anyway, no point in rehashing all of this now. I've said pretty much all I have to say about that chapter. It looks like the Spurs are happy with the deal then and now.

rumors thats spurs are shopping dd = being happy about the trade?

Yes. Again a - he filled a void and stabilized a very difficult situation, and b - filled the 'now' need.

We're going to get criticized by a certain set no matter what we do - acquire DD=bad. Potentially acquire assets for DD rather than max him=bad. He's doing what we need him to do while we develop guys at his position who are not seasoned enough to start. And we're looking to make more of an asset. Win. Win.

[imagump1313]

The Lakers were not offering anything close to what the Pelicans got for Davis LOL.

The arrogance of Magic at that time thought just because Leonard claimed he wanted to go there we would panic and take anything we could get. The Lakers, Sixers...etc were pretty much offering up trash so we waited and got the best offer from Toronto who swooped in at the last minute. Most of the Laker offers being rumored at that time were stupid, Like Ball and a pick. We weren't ever going to fall for that.

I'll be the first to admit that the Spurs screwing the Lakers is always a good practice but our FO isn't stupid. If we would have been offered the same deal NO got we would have probably taken it.

[imagump1313]

rumors thats spurs are shopping dd = being happy about the trade?

Yes please. He just isnt working here.

[NoZoLakers]

The Lakers were not offering anything close to what the Pelicans got for Davis LOL.

The arrogance of Magic at that time thought just because Leonard claimed he wanted to go there we would panic and take anything we could get. The Lakers, Sixers...etc were pretty much offering up trash so we waited and got the best offer from Toronto who swooped in at the last minute. Most of the Laker offers being rumored at that time were stupid, Like Ball and a pick. We weren't ever going to fall for that.

I'll be the first to admit that the Spurs screwing the Lakers is always a good practice but our FO isn't stupid. If we would have been offered the same deal NO got we would have probably taken it.

Magic might have learned his lesson bout being arrogantly bout stuff like that after pg debacle n again Kawahi was the domini needed to get Pg interested so its not hard to assume your mgmt couldve used that angle n leveraged magic into giving up a big pkg.....and Pop was already being a salty "get of my lawn" old man mentality when he went out his lane and told pelicans not to trade AD to us, so clearly if that were the case who's to say Pop might not have even taken ANY calls from Magic n la mgmts

[imagump1313]

Meh...IDK.
Lakers have always been arrogant IMO. Shaq, Gasol, Chris Paul...etc. They always think because they are the Lakers everyone should just let their property walk over to them for nothing.
I'm glad The Spurs and Pelicans finally stood up to them.

[floppymoose]

Just don't try to out-tank GS this season. GS is "light years ahead".

[Ballings7]

Defense on the wing continues to be an issue for this team, and a lack of overall size and athleticism collectively in the back court + lack of defensive ability from different aspects on the wing overall.

Past White and Murray, Beli/Mills/Forbes are all too undersized night-to-night defensively as a group + Belinelli not being that long or quick.. but on offense for Mills/Forbes, they've been great.

White needs to play more than he has so far, consistently should be in the high 20s, at least.

Murray, sans some load mgmt I get.. but his minutes restriction should be over soon or now.. he should be playing like low 30s per game every time he plays, that is definitely effecting things.. other parts of his game are still developing but more often than not the team is better with him out on the floor.

I think can get by with Mills/Forbes defensively, but not with the rest of the wings from PG-SF collectively, being notably flawed or inconsistent effectiveness, in one or way or another defensively. Forbes has improved defensively and moves his feet, but defending other SGs I don't like from night to night, but he needs to be in the starting line-up/finish games due to his shooting.

I'd like to see Walker play more to develop defensively, bring raw energy and quickness,and at times even Keldon Johnson. Who I think will be a special defender once he gets adjusted to the NBA game a bit. I think he can contribute almost immediately based on his make up as a player and athlete.

Carroll at this point is wait and see... haven't seen him enough recently to really tell if he's still a reliable, solid player on both ends. Potential is there, but has to get some minutes consistently to attempt to help even.

Carroll coming in I thought would be decent but he just doesn't play. I'd rather have Davis for the regular season and see if he can get better in the playoff games (hasn't had much success there yet). Either isn't athletic enough or his shot is not prepared for the increased intensity. Davis definitely was a big part of numerous wins last season.

The team's defense still needs work, and quite a bit of it is rotations and personnel. Some of the key vets need to be adjusted in the rotation, and to a lesser degree traded.

Belinelli has been disappointing, and no longer (not since 2018) have the team defense or lead-wing defenders right now to compliment his lack of reliable defensive ability from game to game. I'd rather swap him out for a 2nd RD pick/youngish wing with some size, and play Keldon Johnson in his place.

Keep playing Walker and bringing him along a bit, but a bit more than he has... and then play Carroll, who if healthy I think probably will be better than Belinelli has been overall.

The team's wing group has some rotations issues to work out, and the group doesn't compliment each other too well with the way the rotation has been so far.

[imagump1313]

Just don't try to out-tank GS this season. GS is "light years ahead".

Every time I get depressed about this team I think about you guys and stop whining about us

[NoZoLakers]

Meh...IDK.
Lakers have always been arrogant IMO. Shaq, Gasol, Chris Paul...etc. They always think because they are the Lakers everyone should just let their property walk over to them for nothing.
I'm glad The Spurs and Pelicans finally stood up to them.

how did we mgmt get arrogant with Pelicans? If anything Dell Demps got to cocky and got fired in the process and AD still ended up in La, just like Kawahi and in his case not only did he get to LA he did while gifting Tor a chip in the process further decreasing potential of hate towards him by Tor fan for leaving. So end of the day, Spurs lost that trade, the the present and the future.