Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: It's B-ball Time !!!

[GelbeWand09]

yes, i believe he is.

Very harsh take on JI. He’s been the only real bright spot on the team this season so far in my opinion.

He needs to develop offensively for sure, but marked offensive development would propel him immediately to an elite player in my opinion. I’m thinking like ball handling and shooting ability getting better, which I also think is likely.

Think about it this way; if JI was an unrestricted FA this offseason, what type of deal do you see him getting?

you can be a good player but your role is a defensive role player. Shawn Marion, Dennis Rodman, both HOF (or capable) defensive role players. AK47, Bruce Bowen, etc, etc

How can someone be a roleplayer, if he got the biggest or 2nd biggest impact on a team winning games? Is Beal a offensive roleplayer, because he only can score, but doesnt defend? Gobert is the better & impactful player than Beal, despite scoring much less points.
Or are all non 2 way players for you roleplayers ?
But i think we agree to disagree in that case

For your examples: Thats list is a bad example, because none of them are rim protectors. Wing defenders will never have the impact of elite bigs on defense. I talk only about the Goberts, Dwights , Embiid if engaged.

[tiderulz]

Very harsh take on JI. He’s been the only real bright spot on the team this season so far in my opinion.

He needs to develop offensively for sure, but marked offensive development would propel him immediately to an elite player in my opinion. I’m thinking like ball handling and shooting ability getting better, which I also think is likely.

Think about it this way; if JI was an unrestricted FA this offseason, what type of deal do you see him getting?

you can be a good player but your role is a defensive role player. Shawn Marion, Dennis Rodman, both HOF (or capable) defensive role players. AK47, Bruce Bowen, etc, etc

I see what you’re saying. I think it’s been misinterpreted. I think the message was taken as “he’s just a role player that plays defense” rather than “the only thing he does very well is play defense”, which I think is fair at this point.

You don’t see him developing further?

his offensive game? i dont. I would love to see him do a Siakam type bump, i just dont see it happening.

[pepe1991]

I’m happy to see us looking like we are getting out of the slump. I was starting to lose hope on the season.

Now I hope we don’t trade away any of our core chasing an immediate band-aid.

Also, JI has to be untouchable in trade talks for us, yes? The man is a defensive beast already and he is definitely still in “project” range as far as his time in the NBA. I think he can definitely develop offensively still.

Once some of our veteran contracts come off the books, we should be poised to put together a good team. It’s a long term game fellas and ladies.

No one is “untouchable” on our roster just depends what the return is . For example If Isaac can get the team Bradley Beal then it’s a no brainer.

I honestly don’t pay much attention to other teams, so I mean this sincerely; what exactly makes Beal so great? He’s a great three point shooter, I know, but what else? He’s not exactly known as a playmaker, he’s not exactly a defensive player at all, he isn’t an explosive athlete by NBA comparisons, he just shoots really well. Surely that can be found elsewhere.

30 ppg,
7 apg
no big deal

[tiderulz]

Very harsh take on JI. He’s been the only real bright spot on the team this season so far in my opinion.

He needs to develop offensively for sure, but marked offensive development would propel him immediately to an elite player in my opinion. I’m thinking like ball handling and shooting ability getting better, which I also think is likely.

Think about it this way; if JI was an unrestricted FA this offseason, what type of deal do you see him getting?

you can be a good player but your role is a defensive role player. Shawn Marion, Dennis Rodman, both HOF (or capable) defensive role players. AK47, Bruce Bowen, etc, etc

How can someone be a roleplayer, if he got the biggest or 2nd biggest impact on a team winning games? Is Beal a offensive roleplayer, because he only can score, but doesnt defend? Gobert is the better & impactful player than Beal, despite scoring much less points.
Or are all non 2 way players for you roleplayers ?
But i think we agree to disagree in that case

you've already said "ive told you enough", no need to discuss with you further.

[EAS Law]

No one is “untouchable” on our roster just depends what the return is . For example If Isaac can get the team Bradley Beal then it’s a no brainer.

I honestly don’t pay much attention to other teams, so I mean this sincerely; what exactly makes Beal so great? He’s a great three point shooter, I know, but what else? He’s not exactly known as a playmaker, he’s not exactly a defensive player at all, he isn’t an explosive athlete by NBA comparisons, he just shoots really well. Surely that can be found elsewhere.

can it though? every year people looking for shooting. i mean, we are too

I’d argue the answer is yes. When you factor in the cost to acquire a player like Beal, both cap and any players you’d lose to make the acquisition. You’re essentially looking for a one-dimensional player at that point. You probably won’t find someone that does it as well as Beal, but you’d find someone that gives you what you need. Like Ross for example.

[tiderulz]

I honestly don’t pay much attention to other teams, so I mean this sincerely; what exactly makes Beal so great? He’s a great three point shooter, I know, but what else? He’s not exactly known as a playmaker, he’s not exactly a defensive player at all, he isn’t an explosive athlete by NBA comparisons, he just shoots really well. Surely that can be found elsewhere.

can it though? every year people looking for shooting. i mean, we are too

I’d argue the answer is yes. When you factor in the cost to acquire a player like Beal, both cap and any players you’d lose to make the acquisition. You’re essentially looking for a one-dimensional player at that point. You probably won’t find someone that does it as well as Beal, but you’d find someone that gives you what you need. Like Ross for example.

ok, different discussion. Im not saying the price to get him is affordable to us.

[pepe1991]

Lot of elite defenders don't have elite impact on a game.
Some of elite players per position:

PG : Joseph, Rubio
SG: Danny Green, Smart
SF: Covington , Winslow
PF : Thad Young, younger MIllsap
C : Myles Turner, Robin Lopez

Tony Allen was one of the best on ball defenders for decade, he was 50% of time bench player.

Isaac is PF and would look better playing with along side better shooting PG and SF, not a case with Magic.

That being said, being only 4 years older than Isaac, entering his prime, Beal is exponentially better basketball player. 4 of Wizards Ls were within 8 points, where he kept him in games by himself. Guy just dropped 44 points in back to back games.

Isaac never showed that he can be versitale offensive player. In his career high he just made 5/7 threes and went back to shoot bricks since that game. He also does not take anybody off drribble or does postups or pick&roll or pretty much anything but spot ups. In this moment he is pretty much identical offensive player to Robert Covington.

[EAS Law]

No one is “untouchable” on our roster just depends what the return is . For example If Isaac can get the team Bradley Beal then it’s a no brainer.

I honestly don’t pay much attention to other teams, so I mean this sincerely; what exactly makes Beal so great? He’s a great three point shooter, I know, but what else? He’s not exactly known as a playmaker, he’s not exactly a defensive player at all, he isn’t an explosive athlete by NBA comparisons, he just shoots really well. Surely that can be found elsewhere.

30 ppg,
7 apg
no big deal

Do I even really need to respond to why your post is willfully misleading?

He’s going to get you about 20-25 ppg and maybe 3-4 assists over his career.

Nice 10-game sample though.

[GelbeWand09]

Lot of elite defenders don't have elite impact on a game.
Some of elite players per position:

PG : Joseph, Rubio
SG: Danny Green, Smart
SF: Covington , Winslow
PF : Thad Young, younger MIllsap
C : Myles Turner, Robin Lopez

Tony Allen was one of the best on ball defenders for decade, he was 50% of time bench player.

Isaac is PF and would look better playing with along side better shooting PG and SF, not a case with Magic.

That being said, being only 4 years older than Isaac, entering his prime, Beal is exponentially better basketball player. 4 of Wizards Ls were within 8 points, where he kept him in games by himself. Guy just dropped 44 points in back to back games.

Thats what i said. I only talk about elite rim protectors. No other defender gonna have elite defensive impact. Gobert, Dwight & co. Wings only guard there man, elite (not Turner) rim protector defend the whole team, big difference. Teams play totally different against them.

Isaac is kinda unique., because he combines rim protection with very good wing defense & elite switchability. Are not many examples of this kind of player before.

[EAS Law]

can it though? every year people looking for shooting. i mean, we are too

I’d argue the answer is yes. When you factor in the cost to acquire a player like Beal, both cap and any players you’d lose to make the acquisition. You’re essentially looking for a one-dimensional player at that point. You probably won’t find someone that does it as well as Beal, but you’d find someone that gives you what you need. Like Ross for example.

ok, different discussion. Im not saying the price to get him is affordable to us.

No doubt I’d love to see us just add Beal. You’d be an idiot not to.

I’m looking at it in the context of having to trade our most valuable guy or guys to get him here. I just don’t see him as some superstar that will change your team.

[tiderulz]

I honestly don’t pay much attention to other teams, so I mean this sincerely; what exactly makes Beal so great? He’s a great three point shooter, I know, but what else? He’s not exactly known as a playmaker, he’s not exactly a defensive player at all, he isn’t an explosive athlete by NBA comparisons, he just shoots really well. Surely that can be found elsewhere.

30 ppg,
7 apg
no big deal

Do I even really need to respond to why your post is willfully misleading?

He’s going to get you about 20-25 ppg and maybe 3-4 assists over his career.

Nice 10-game sample though.

but how many other players can get you that every night?

[pepe1991]

I honestly don’t pay much attention to other teams, so I mean this sincerely; what exactly makes Beal so great? He’s a great three point shooter, I know, but what else? He’s not exactly known as a playmaker, he’s not exactly a defensive player at all, he isn’t an explosive athlete by NBA comparisons, he just shoots really well. Surely that can be found elsewhere.

30 ppg,
7 apg
no big deal

Do I even really need to respond to why your post is willfully misleading?

He’s going to get you about 20-25 ppg and maybe 3-4 assists over his career.

Nice 10-game sample though.

He averaged 29 ppg , 5 rpg, 5 apg last year.
Others who did it: Harden , Giannis.

Beal is elite player. He is in converation for best SG in a game. It's not really his fault that Wizards gave Wall all salary cap.
I mean, we had Lebron missing playoffs last year as his supporting cast was kids and scrubs. Why we hold Beal on higher standards?

[j-ragg]

Beal is the rare (semi) available player that can shoot well off the ball or create a shot for himself with the ball in his hands.

[EAS Law]

30 ppg,
7 apg
no big deal

Do I even really need to respond to why your post is willfully misleading?

He’s going to get you about 20-25 ppg and maybe 3-4 assists over his career.

Nice 10-game sample though.

He averaged 29 ppg , 5 rpg, 5 apg last year.
Others who did it: Harden , Giannis.

Beal is elite player. He is in converation for best SG in a game. It's not really his fault that Wizards gave Wall all salary cap.
I mean, we had Lebron missing playoffs last year as his supporting cast was kids and scrubs. Why we hold Beal on higher standards?

False. He averaged 25.6 ppg last year.

He’s very good. I’d love to have him on our team, but he is not worth mortgaging your future and being the Orlando Wizards.

[GelbeWand09]

If Beal is elite, why he doesnt win? Why he was at best a 2nd round exit in the horrible east, with prime wall and that only good season playoff run was even carried by old man Pierce? Beal is a very good player, but he doesnt make other players better & is a horrible defender. That limits his impact.

[GelbeWand09]

This doesnt mean i dont want Beal lol. I would love him here & we could cover a lot of his weaknesses. I just say, Gobert got a bigger impact to winning than Beal.
I'm pretty sure every advanced stat back this up.

[pepe1991]

Do I even really need to respond to why your post is willfully misleading?

He’s going to get you about 20-25 ppg and maybe 3-4 assists over his career.

Nice 10-game sample though.

He averaged 29 ppg , 5 rpg, 5 apg last year.
Others who did it: Harden , Giannis.

Beal is elite player. He is in converation for best SG in a game. It's not really his fault that Wizards gave Wall all salary cap.
I mean, we had Lebron missing playoffs last year as his supporting cast was kids and scrubs. Why we hold Beal on higher standards?

False. He averaged 25.6 ppg last year.

He’s very good. I’d love to have him on our team, but he is not worth mortgaging your future and being the Orlando Wizards.

You are right, i watched this year's PPGs. Anyway, that's super elite . 25-5-5 has been achived since 2000 by:
Kobe
Harden
Westbrook
Lebron
Curry
Wade
T mac
Durant

That's literally HOF list. He is on pace to do it twice.
Guy is 26, what future are you mortaging?

Also what's really Magic potential with current core?
Non shooting , limited at scoring PG
Limited , low BBIQ center
PF with clear limitations on offense.

No matter what you do, at some point you will have to get elite scorer.

[zaymon]

i just dont see from Isaac what you do. he isnt untouchable to me. defensive role player, a good one but thats what he is

Is Gobert a defensive roleplayer too? Strange that Utah is a lottery team without him. Embiid was horrible vs. Toronto and still was the 2nd most impactful player in the series, because his defense was so good. Isaac is playing on there level this season on defense.
He is not your typical defender or 3&D player. He is one of 3-4 guys in the leaque, that has the ability to transform a team of middling defenders into a top 3 defense.

yes, i believe he is.

Like i said i am very hard on our players and i dont want to make hype when its not there but Isaac has more than one thing going for.him. Since college he had elite defensive stats. His reaction time is elite and with his eye-hand coordination it makes his very hard to play against. Think of Marc Gasol but longer and more athletic. He has better than advertised frame and he plays physical. If his mental side matches his physical gifts we have DPOY candidate for the next 10 years. On offense he has great shooting form and free throw %. He is starting to hit above the break 3s. He is making good reads and simple passes. His weaknesses are below average handle and post game, but his touch around the rim is nice. Right now he is starter on playoff caliber team, in 2 years he could be more. Offensive stars are often primadonnas changing teams like socks, but defensive stars like Isaac carry their teams for years. ( propably ego thing)

[GelbeWand09]

He averaged 29 ppg , 5 rpg, 5 apg last year.
Others who did it: Harden , Giannis.

Beal is elite player. He is in converation for best SG in a game. It's not really his fault that Wizards gave Wall all salary cap.
I mean, we had Lebron missing playoffs last year as his supporting cast was kids and scrubs. Why we hold Beal on higher standards?

False. He averaged 25.6 ppg last year.

He’s very good. I’d love to have him on our team, but he is not worth mortgaging your future and being the Orlando Wizards.

You are right, i watched this year's PPGs. Anyway, that's super elite . 25-5-5 has been achived since 2000 by:
Kobe
Harden
Westbrook
Lebron
Curry
Wade
T mac
Durant

That's literally HOF list. He is on pace to do it twice.
Guy is 26, what future are you mortaging?

Also what's really Magic potential with current core?
Non shooting , limited at scoring PG
Limited , low BBIQ center
PF with clear limitations on offense.

No matter what you do, at some point you will have to get elite scorer.

Jerry Stackhouse had a 30, 5 & 4 season in one of the slowest era's ever. Was he elite? He just came up my mind
I love Beal for us, but i just think, he is a bit of a empty stats guy too.

Was fun like always with you, have to go to the gym I know we have different opponions about offense & defense. At least you try to explain your oppinion with some real stats.

[pepe1991]

This doesnt mean i dont want Beal lol. I would love him here & we could cover a lot of his weaknesses. I just say, Gobert got a bigger impact to winning than Beal.
I'm pretty sure every advanced stat back this up.

Isaac isn't Gobert. One of biggest strenght of Gobert is elite screening. For pass 3 years he is leading league in screen assists.

His eFG% in pick&roll as rolling man is 62%. As he is top 10 player in points scored off pick&roll.

in mean time, Isaac is still being ignored on offense and left wide open all the time. And does not play pick&roll.


I like Gobert, but if i want to nitpick, he is player with stiff legs that is pretty much usless in situations where he is not allowed to screen. Also on defense he gets exposed with high pick&roll action , and best evidence of it is Utah playoff record.

3 times his teams are being whooped by teams that have elite ballhandlers that lure him out. His kryptonite is James Harden and spread pick&roll with handoffs

Watch on YouTube

They just forced him ( for two yeras in a row ) to run more than he can , and to defend space, that he lacks awarness to do.