The James Harden Thread (2019-20)

[90sAllDecade]

44 pts 5 assists and 8 rebounds with 50% FG and 42.9% 3pt efficiency, on what looked very comfortable during the flow of the game tonight.

He's almost averaging 40 pts a game now at about 38.7 so far

Watch on YouTube

[CBA]

Westbrook is actually just an average player now, if not flat out bad. Not sure if Harden can carry that team for an entire season. What an awful trade by Morey/Tilman.

[thekdog34]

Westbrook is actually just an average player now, if not flat out bad. Not sure if Harden can carry that team for an entire season. What an awful trade by Morey/Tilman.

He's shooting poorly from the outside but it's an exaggeration to say he's average. His pace has given the rockets offense a boost

[Krodis]

So at this point I think this becomes a serious question: can he average 40?

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[CBA]

Westbrook is actually just an average player now, if not flat out bad. Not sure if Harden can carry that team for an entire season. What an awful trade by Morey/Tilman.

He's shooting poorly from the outside but it's an exaggeration to say he's average. His pace has given the rockets offense a boost

Uh, what? If anything I’m overrating him slightly. After the first few games of the season he’s been a liability on both ends. He creates some points in transition and some possessions by grabbing contested rebounds, but otherwise gums up the offense with his complete inability to shoot the ball. Obviously, he’s an awful defender too.

[thekdog34]

Westbrook is actually just an average player now, if not flat out bad. Not sure if Harden can carry that team for an entire season. What an awful trade by Morey/Tilman.

He's shooting poorly from the outside but it's an exaggeration to say he's average. His pace has given the rockets offense a boost

Uh, what? If anything I’m overrating him slightly. After the first few games of the season he’s been a liability on both ends. He creates some points in transition and some possessions by grabbing contested rebounds, but otherwise gums up the offense with his complete inability to shoot the ball. Obviously, he’s an awful defender too.

Well that's always been true and yet he's always been a positive impact player due to his ability to drive, create and finish at the rim.

Seems like every player harden plays with sucks and harden wins in spite of them, including Chris Paul, in certain narratives

[K_chile22]

He's shooting poorly from the outside but it's an exaggeration to say he's average. His pace has given the rockets offense a boost

Uh, what? If anything I’m overrating him slightly. After the first few games of the season he’s been a liability on both ends. He creates some points in transition and some possessions by grabbing contested rebounds, but otherwise gums up the offense with his complete inability to shoot the ball. Obviously, he’s an awful defender too.

Well that's always been true and yet he's always been a positive impact player due to his ability to drive, create and finish at the rim.

Seems like every player harden plays with sucks and harden wins in spite of them, including Chris Paul, in certain narratives

Have you watched the last 5 games or are you just going to blame Harden for everything? Russ has looked absolutely awful. For the season: Harden and Westbrook on: +4.4, Harden on Westbrook off: +7.3, Westbrook on, Harden off: -10.1

Hardens got the highest on/off of his career by far, and you usually try and pretend on/off is an individual stat, but he hasn't been twice as good as last year, it's only so high because they've been absolutely awful with Russ only on. Which is why on/off isn't that great of a stat

[Dr Spaceman]

So at this point I think this becomes a serious question: can he average 40?

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When it comes to Harden and scoring records I don’t think it’s smart money to rule anything out.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

I'm not holding my breath on this guy. I like James but he does this type of stuff every year in regular season. Than when it comes to crunch time in big playoff games, he wants Eric Gordon or whoever to do the work. Come talk to me in the playoffs James.

[Cavsfansince84]

Have you watched the last 5 games or are you just going to blame Harden for everything? Russ has looked absolutely awful. For the season: Harden and Westbrook on: +4.4, Harden on Westbrook off: +7.3, Westbrook on, Harden off: -10.1

Hardens got the highest on/off of his career by far, and you usually try and pretend on/off is an individual stat, but he hasn't been twice as good as last year, it's only so high because they've been absolutely awful with Russ only on. Which is why on/off isn't that great of a stat

On/off has probably become the most overrated stat commonly used in bb now.

[homecourtloss]

Last 6 games (winning streak)

Rockets’ ORtg w/Harden on court: 111.9
Rockets’ DRtg w/Harden on court: 93.7
NET On court: +18.2 per 100 possessions

Rockets’ ORtg w/Harden off court: 96.9
Rockets’ DRtg w/Harden off court: 113.4
Rockets’ NET with Harden off court: -16.5 per 100 possessions

Harden NET On-Off: +32.7

42/8/7 on 65.2% TS

[Dr Spaceman]

He's shooting poorly from the outside but it's an exaggeration to say he's average. His pace has given the rockets offense a boost

Uh, what? If anything I’m overrating him slightly. After the first few games of the season he’s been a liability on both ends. He creates some points in transition and some possessions by grabbing contested rebounds, but otherwise gums up the offense with his complete inability to shoot the ball. Obviously, he’s an awful defender too.

Well that's always been true and yet he's always been a positive impact player due to his ability to drive, create and finish at the rim.

Seems like every player harden plays with sucks and harden wins in spite of them, including Chris Paul, in certain narratives

Everybody in the universe was effusive in their praise of Paul in 2018. In 2019, however, he spent almost half of the regular season injured and was clearly not the same athlete as he was before the original hamstring injury. He did not have a good season for a number of reasons that had nothing to do with Harden.

Westbrook has been an atrocious jump shooter ever since his MVP season. Literally has not been able to hit water from a boat. The man now has three consecutive playoff runs under 40% from the field. We always knew he was this player. Matter of fact going to Houston has helped him at this stage given he’s shootings a career high by far at the rim.

Honestly it’s bizarre at this point how far you’re willing to go to tear down Harden. I don’t even mean this as an ostensible Rockets fan... I mean that the amount of slander you lay on the guy is just absolutely ridiculous even among his haters to the point of speculating about a drug s]addiction.

[CBA]

Yeah, praising Westbrook’s play this year is actually insane. I don’t even think most Rockets homers would go that far.

[Dr Positivity]

Going to be annoying arguing with young RealGMers in 15 years about how he's not the offensive GOAT

[Colbinii]

Greatness is always polarizing.

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[Colbinii]

The same people posting in this thread would have though KC Jones was better than Jerry West...or that Jerry West was a choker.

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[homecourtloss]

Going to be annoying arguing with young RealGMers in 15 years about how he's not the offensive GOAT

What’s the worst reasonable offense you can put around 2018-2020 Harden and still not be a top 10 offense? Is it even possible? Put him on this year’s Knicks or Bulls. What would their respective ORtg ranks be?

Obviously people will say “non-shooters” but even that might not do it, AND that’d be easy to remedy. Currently, Harden has played 171 minutes with Capella and Westbrook and Houston’s offense has been trash but defense good.

The man is an offensive savant. It’s really a shame he hasn’t been able to hit a few shots the past two years against GSW that would’ve propelled him to two Finals (doubt Portland could beat them last year). The narrative around him would be completely different, but some of that is warranted since he didn’t hit those shots.

[Dr Positivity]

Going to be annoying arguing with young RealGMers in 15 years about how he's not the offensive GOAT

What’s the worst reasonable offense you can put around 2018-2020 Harden and still not be a top 10 offense? Is it even possible? Put him on this year’s Knicks or Bulls. What would their respective ORtg ranks be?

Obviously people will say “non-shooters” but even that might not do it, AND that’d be easy to remedy. Currently, Harden has played 171 minutes with Capella and Westbrook and Houston’s offense has been trash but defense good.

The man is an offensive savant. It’s really a shame he hasn’t been able to hit a few shots the past two years against GSW that would’ve propelled him to two Finals (doubt Portland could beat them last year). The narrative around him would be completely different, but some of that is warranted since he didn’t hit those shots.

He is quite possibly the offensive GOAT in the regular season, but only in the regular season right now. The playoffs have shown he has legitimate holes in his offense which is why I wouldn't call him offensive GOAT level. I also think Harden breaking the game offensively in the regular season is a dual contribution between his talent and the Morey/D'Antoni system

[K_chile22]

Have you watched the last 5 games or are you just going to blame Harden for everything? Russ has looked absolutely awful. For the season: Harden and Westbrook on: +4.4, Harden on Westbrook off: +7.3, Westbrook on, Harden off: -10.1

Hardens got the highest on/off of his career by far, and you usually try and pretend on/off is an individual stat, but he hasn't been twice as good as last year, it's only so high because they've been absolutely awful with Russ only on. Which is why on/off isn't that great of a stat

On/off has probably become the most overrated stat commonly used in bb now.

It's solid, but too many people use it as a tool to assess an individual player, when it's one of the most context dependent stats out there

[Dr Positivity]

The same people posting in this thread would have though KC Jones was better than Jerry West...or that Jerry West was a choker.

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Jerry West is one of the best playoff performers of all time. The argument against him is more like holding Lebron's finals record against him which is dumb

Harden is more like Robinson's playoff struggles for me, which I think were legitimate issues with his game