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OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond

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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#441 » by MeloRoseNoah » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:01 am

Susan wrote:
MeloRoseNoah wrote:There needs to be an independent scouting committee to review all decisions made by our scouting department especially when it comes to bypassing African American brother prospects at QB. How the hell could you pass up on two Hall of Famer QBs, trade up, and draft a bust? The only possible explanation is the color of their skin.


Watson threw 17ints his last year and had a torn ACL and is small for the position. Mahomes played in the Air Raid offense in college. It's been a poor transition to the NFL historically for Air Raid QBs since it's been seen as a gimmick offense in the NFL.

Not saying it's right but those guys had flaws, QBs are OFTENTIMES busts coming out and saying it's only because of race is absurd.

Do I think it's something worth talking about, yes. But to treat it as a FACT is trash.


Aaron Rodgers came from an Air Raid offense in college. No excuse there. Please point me objective measurements of Trubisky being better than either Mahomes/Watson. All I'm hearing are excuses without any substantial objective measurement. Given that situation, I have a hard time believing that racial prejudice isn't a huge component of their QB evaluation.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#442 » by Susan » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:02 am

MeloRoseNoah wrote:
Susan wrote:
MeloRoseNoah wrote:There needs to be an independent scouting committee to review all decisions made by our scouting department especially when it comes to bypassing African American brother prospects at QB. How the hell could you pass up on two Hall of Famer QBs, trade up, and draft a bust? The only possible explanation is the color of their skin.


Watson threw 17ints his last year and had a torn ACL and is small for the position. Mahomes played in the Air Raid offense in college. It's been a poor transition to the NFL historically for Air Raid QBs since it's been seen as a gimmick offense in the NFL.

Not saying it's right but those guys had flaws, QBs are OFTENTIMES busts coming out and saying it's only because of race is absurd.

Do I think it's something worth talking about, yes. But to treat it as a FACT is trash.


What are big gun Trubisky credentials to be a stud QB in this league coming out of college? Trubisky got beat by either Mahomes/Watson in every objective measurements. The only way that you could justify that pick are the made up intangibles. The problem is that the so called intangibles are made by a racist scouting department who is wooed by a clean cut white boy who's has the pretty franchise face.

See the NFL scouting report on Mitch as well as Pace's reasons for Trubisky:

1) Accurate
2) Poise
3) Smart
4) Can read a defense and make them pay by passing to the right guys

In college, both Watson and Mahomes show more of those four qualities than Trubusty, but they are known as wild African American athletes who couldn't read a defense.


Mitch threw 6 INTs vs Watson's 17, Mitch threw for 8.4 Y/A to Watson's 8.0. Watson had a torn ACL in college and is undersized for the position. Mitch only played one season and is a little bit bigger than Watson. Mitch completed 68% of his passes which was higher than both Mahomes and Watson.

Not saying it was the right decision but it's not just **** race. You're not making valid arguments and pushing all of this to a race issue.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#443 » by Betta Bulleavit » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:05 am

MeloRoseNoah wrote:

Trubisky crying on the sideline after benching decision.

HE definitely looks disappointed. I don’t know that he was crying though. I doubt the situation really needs to be sensationalized any more than it’s already going to.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#444 » by Susan » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:07 am

MeloRoseNoah wrote:
Susan wrote:
MeloRoseNoah wrote:There needs to be an independent scouting committee to review all decisions made by our scouting department especially when it comes to bypassing African American brother prospects at QB. How the hell could you pass up on two Hall of Famer QBs, trade up, and draft a bust? The only possible explanation is the color of their skin.


Watson threw 17ints his last year and had a torn ACL and is small for the position. Mahomes played in the Air Raid offense in college. It's been a poor transition to the NFL historically for Air Raid QBs since it's been seen as a gimmick offense in the NFL.

Not saying it's right but those guys had flaws, QBs are OFTENTIMES busts coming out and saying it's only because of race is absurd.

Do I think it's something worth talking about, yes. But to treat it as a FACT is trash.


Aaron Rodgers came from an Air Raid offense in college. No excuse there. Please point me objective measurements of Trubisky being better than either Mahomes/Watson. All I'm hearing are excuses without any substantial objective measurement. Given that situation, I have a hard time believing that racial prejudice isn't a huge component of their QB evaluation.


No, Aaron Rodgers didn't play in the Air Raid offense. He played for Jeff Tedford.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raid_offense
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#445 » by Betta Bulleavit » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:07 am

MeloRoseNoah wrote:
Susan wrote:
MeloRoseNoah wrote:There needs to be an independent scouting committee to review all decisions made by our scouting department especially when it comes to bypassing African American brother prospects at QB. How the hell could you pass up on two Hall of Famer QBs, trade up, and draft a bust? The only possible explanation is the color of their skin.


Watson threw 17ints his last year and had a torn ACL and is small for the position. Mahomes played in the Air Raid offense in college. It's been a poor transition to the NFL historically for Air Raid QBs since it's been seen as a gimmick offense in the NFL.

Not saying it's right but those guys had flaws, QBs are OFTENTIMES busts coming out and saying it's only because of race is absurd.

Do I think it's something worth talking about, yes. But to treat it as a FACT is trash.


Aaron Rodgers came from an Air Raid offense in college. No excuse there. Please point me objective measurements of Trubisky being better than either Mahomes/Watson. All I'm hearing are excuses without any substantial objective measurement. Given that situation, I have a hard time believing that racial prejudice isn't a huge component of their QB evaluation.

I could care less whether the guy is white or black. I just want guys at the right spot for this team. Period. That goes for HC too. This whole outfit is just a mess at the moment and I don’t think it has anything to do with race.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#446 » by dice » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:17 am

MeloRoseNoah wrote:
Susan wrote:
MeloRoseNoah wrote:There needs to be an independent scouting committee to review all decisions made by our scouting department especially when it comes to bypassing African American brother prospects at QB. How the hell could you pass up on two Hall of Famer QBs, trade up, and draft a bust? The only possible explanation is the color of their skin.


Watson threw 17ints his last year and had a torn ACL and is small for the position. Mahomes played in the Air Raid offense in college. It's been a poor transition to the NFL historically for Air Raid QBs since it's been seen as a gimmick offense in the NFL.

Not saying it's right but those guys had flaws, QBs are OFTENTIMES busts coming out and saying it's only because of race is absurd.

Do I think it's something worth talking about, yes. But to treat it as a FACT is trash.


What are big gun Trubisky credentials to be a stud QB in this league coming out of college? Trubisky got beat by either Mahomes/Watson in every objective measurements. The only way that you could justify that pick are the made up intangibles. The problem is that the so called intangibles are made by a racist scouting department who is wooed by a clean cut white boy who's has the pretty franchise face.

See the NFL scouting report on Mitch as well as Pace's reasons for Trubisky:

1) Accurate
2) Poise
3) Smart
4) Can read a defense and make them pay by passing to the right guys

In college, both Watson and Mahomes show more of those four qualities than Trubusty, but they are known as wild African American athletes who couldn't read a defense.

for the third time, that's false. i have to assume you're just trolling at this point. trubisky not only had the same passer rating as the other two in college, but had BETTER combine results and had more yards per carry than mahomes. all of those things are, wait for it...OBJECTIVE

almost EVERY analyst had trubisky as the first QB on their big board
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#447 » by MeloRoseNoah » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:22 am

dice wrote:for the third time, that's false. i have to assume you're just trolling at this point. trubisky not only had the same passer rating as the other two in college, but had BETTER combine results and had more yards per carry than mahomes. all of those things are, wait for it...OBJECTIVE

almost EVERY analyst had trubisky as the first QB on their big board


Pat Mahomes 5000 yds passing with 41 TDs on his last season
Trubusty 3,700 yds passing with 30 TDs on his last season

Thanks for playing. When the hell does combine results matter for QBs? I guess Tom Brady should be undrafted based on those combine #s. LOL

Mahomes arm strength >>>>>>>>>>> Trubusky noodle arm
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#448 » by bullsnewdynasty » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:29 am

Combine doesn't mean ****.

Dwayne Haskins was supposedly the 2nd best QB in the draft and he looks like a 7th round pick at best. Hopefully these two guys demonstrate that you don't draft a QB in the first round who started 1 year in college.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#449 » by dice » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:30 am

MeloRoseNoah wrote:
dice wrote:for the third time, that's false. i have to assume you're just trolling at this point. trubisky not only had the same passer rating as the other two in college, but had BETTER combine results and had more yards per carry than mahomes. all of those things are, wait for it...OBJECTIVE

almost EVERY analyst had trubisky as the first QB on their big board


Pat Mahomes 5000 yds passing with 41 TDs on his last season
Trubusty 3,700 yds passing with 30 TDs on his last season

Thanks for playing.

you're playing disingenously. of course mahomes threw for more yards. he threw it more! and you said there were no objective reasons for trubisky to be chosen first. i freaking gave some to you. susan gave you some more. accept that you were very wrong

When the hell does combine results matter for QBs? I guess Tom Brady should be undrafted based on those combine #s. LOL

he almost DID go undrafted ROFLCOPTER OMG RIP CIA

Mahomes arm strength >>>>>>>>>>> Trubusky noodle arm

guess who else had a cannon? ryan leaf. and jay cutler might have had the biggest arm in the league. guess who don't have big arms? TOM. BRADY. and DREW. BREES.

use YOUR noodle
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#450 » by HoopsterJones » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:37 am

Pace hasn’t done well with his First round picks:

Kevin White: Bust
Leonard Floyd: Meh
Mitchell Trubisky: Bust
Roquan Smith: Good rookie season, this year meh

Second round picks haven’t been all too great either.

Shaheen: Bust
Daniels: Meh
Miller: Meh
Goldman: Good
Whitehair: Good
AKME got to go
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#451 » by dice » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:39 am

HoopsterJones wrote:Pace hasn’t done well with his First round picks:

Kevin White: Bust
Leonard Floyd: Meh
Mitchell Trubisky: Bust
Roquan Smith: Good rookie season, this year meh

Second round picks haven’t been all too great either.

Shaheen: Bust
Daniels: Meh
Miller: Meh
Goldman: Good
Whitehair: Good

but he's been great in the middle rounds. there's no reason to believe that drafting well in the middle rounds shouldn't translate to the early rounds. it's probably random variation. the misses just happen to have been more costly
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#452 » by MeloRoseNoah » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:43 am

dice wrote:
MeloRoseNoah wrote:
dice wrote:for the third time, that's false. i have to assume you're just trolling at this point. trubisky not only had the same passer rating as the other two in college, but had BETTER combine results and had more yards per carry than mahomes. all of those things are, wait for it...OBJECTIVE

almost EVERY analyst had trubisky as the first QB on their big board


Pat Mahomes 5000 yds passing with 41 TDs on his last season
Trubusty 3,700 yds passing with 30 TDs on his last season

Thanks for playing.

you're not playing right. of course mahomes threw for more yards. he threw it more! and you said there were no objective reasons for trubisky to be chosen first. i freaking gave some to you. susan gave you some more. accept that you were very wrong

When the hell does combine results matter for QBs? I guess Tom Brady should be undrafted based on those combine #s. LOL

he almost DID go undrafted ROFLCOPTER OMG RIP CIA

Mahomes arm strength >>>>>>>>>>> Trubusky noodle arm

guess who else had a cannon? ryan leaf

use YOUR noodl


Pat Mahomes threws more yds and TDs bc he was the offense and a TD machine, just like in the NFL. Your objective measurements are bs and you know it.

The only objective measurements in a QB are yds passing, TDs, and arm strengths. The other intangibles matter too like football intelligence, in which Pat Mahomes appeared to have in spades over Trubusty. Watch the IQ interview of Trubisky vs Mahomes.


vs


Trubisky appeared like a dumb jock who couldn't understand football language and offensive sets. Mahomes rocked his interview. The difference was very obvious. We only ranked Trubisky higher than Mahomes bc Trubisky fits the Brees type better, aka his white skin and clean cut soldier boy franchise face.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#453 » by MeloRoseNoah » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:45 am

HoopsterJones wrote:Pace hasn’t done well with his First round picks:

Kevin White: Bust
Leonard Floyd: Meh
Mitchell Trubisky: Bust
Roquan Smith: Good rookie season, this year meh

Second round picks haven’t been all too great either.

Shaheen: Bust
Daniels: Meh
Miller: Meh
Goldman: Good
Whitehair: Good


Ryan Pace will be fired at the end of the season, along with Matt Nagy. We need fresh blood at GM, coaching staff, and scouts. We have too many incompetent bums recommending busts.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#454 » by dice » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:20 am

MeloRoseNoah wrote:
dice wrote:
MeloRoseNoah wrote:
Pat Mahomes 5000 yds passing with 41 TDs on his last season
Trubusty 3,700 yds passing with 30 TDs on his last season

Thanks for playing.

you're not playing right. of course mahomes threw for more yards. he threw it more! and you said there were no objective reasons for trubisky to be chosen first. i freaking gave some to you. susan gave you some more. accept that you were very wrong

When the hell does combine results matter for QBs? I guess Tom Brady should be undrafted based on those combine #s. LOL

he almost DID go undrafted ROFLCOPTER OMG RIP CIA

Mahomes arm strength >>>>>>>>>>> Trubusky noodle arm

guess who else had a cannon? ryan leaf

use YOUR noodl


Pat Mahomes threws more yds and TDs bc he was the offense and a TD machine, just like in the NFL. Your objective measurements are bs and you know it.

The only objective measurements in a QB are yds passing, TDs, and arm strengths.

apparently you don't know what the word objective means. and if you're judging your QBs on the factors you just mentioned you have no idea what you're doing. countless college QBs have thrown for obscene yardage and TD totals that didn't do jack **** in the nfl. particularly guys from the big 12 like mahomes. it's almost meaningless. guess who is 27th all-time in college yards passing? hint: he currently plays for the chicago bears

qb ratings exist for a reason. so people like you don't get sidetracked by all the numbers that go into it

The other intangibles matter too like football intelligence, in which Pat Mahomes appeared to have in spades over Trubusty. Watch the IQ interview of Trubisky vs Mahomes.


vs


Trubisky appeared like a dumb jock who couldn't understand football language and offensive sets. Mahomes rocked his interview. The difference was very obvious.

i don't dispute that mahomes is smarter than trubisky

We only ranked Trubisky higher than Mahomes bc Trubisky fits the Brees type better, aka his white skin and clean cut soldier boy franchise face.

that's a complete wild guess on your part with absolutely nothing to back it up. once again, almost EVERYBODY had trubisky higher. are ALL football analysts racist?
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#455 » by MeloRoseNoah » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:08 am

dice wrote:i don't dispute that mahomes is smarter than trubisky

We only ranked Trubisky higher than Mahomes bc Trubisky fits the Brees type better, aka his white skin and clean cut soldier boy franchise face.

that's a complete wild guess on your part with absolutely nothing to back it up. once again, almost EVERYBODY had trubisky higher. are ALL football analysts racist?


Yes I would argue that the majority of football analysts when it comes to QB prospect are prejudiced with racism resulting in high bust ratio. Too often do we hear from scouting reports about a white Qb being accurate, calm, poise, leader, winner, pocket passer, and intelligent whereas a black QB being fast, inaccurate, and bad at reading NFL defenses.

If you read the Mahomes scouting report, it’s the same bull while his skill set is more along Favre/ Rodger than being an athletic black athlete. He reads the defense and reacts significantly better to changes than Trubisky at the college level. Just bc the entire league is prejudiced against black QBs doesn’t mean that Ryan Pace, his staff, and the racism permeating from our management people should be brushed aside. We are in the business of making the right decisions and winning football games.

Their racism and poor evaluations have led to an accumulation of busts at an unacceptable level. Everyone needs to go.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#456 » by Dominator83 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:47 am

MeloRoseNoah wrote:
dice wrote:i don't dispute that mahomes is smarter than trubisky

We only ranked Trubisky higher than Mahomes bc Trubisky fits the Brees type better, aka his white skin and clean cut soldier boy franchise face.

that's a complete wild guess on your part with absolutely nothing to back it up. once again, almost EVERYBODY had trubisky higher. are ALL football analysts racist?


Yes I would argue that the majority of football analysts when it comes to QB prospect are prejudiced with racism resulting in high bust ratio. Too often do we hear from scouting reports about a white Qb being accurate, calm, poise, leader, winner, pocket passer, and intelligent whereas a black QB being fast, inaccurate, and bad at reading NFL defenses.

If you read the Mahomes scouting report, it’s the same bull while his skill set is more along Favre/ Rodger than being an athletic black athlete. He reads the defense and reacts significantly better to changes than Trubisky at the college level. Just bc the entire league is prejudiced against black QBs doesn’t mean that Ryan Pace, his staff, and the racism permeating from our management people should be brushed aside. We are in the business of making the right decisions and winning football games.

Their racism and poor evaluations have led to an accumulation of busts at an unacceptable level. Everyone needs to go.

The funny thing about all those pre-draft boards, analysis, etc, was, even though yes, Mitch was regularly ranked the highest, he was still considered to be a meh prospect regardless. This whole disaster isn't exactly hindsight being 20/20. AT THE TIME, like 80% of the population thought what pace did was incredibly dumb. Not just for the fact that he got duped into giving up all those picks to move up 1 spot to grab a guy nobody was grabbing there, but the fact that the guy he was doing it for was considered a meh prospect.

He was never considered a Manning/luck type prospect. Hell, he wasn't in the same prospect tier as Winston/Mariota. Mitch being a bust really isn't a shock to many. This isn't a case of someone like Ryan Leaf, RG3, Matt Leinart, Vince Young. Those were "can't miss" guys that missed. Mitch was considered by nobody to be "can't miss". And when you sell the farm to move up for someone, it better not miss. Especially in that QB class. Even if Mitch was ranked higher, Watson and mahomes were not considered to be big dropoffs. And to most people with common logic, Watson was the most proven ready prospect of all of them. Mitch couldn't even start his 1st two years in college because he couldn't unseat some nobody. That should've told these evaluators everything they needed to know

Gotta say it again. Even at the time, very few people would be surprised if you told them your from the future and Mitch was indeed a bust. Nobody really thought he was that good
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#457 » by dougthonus » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:38 am

Susan wrote:Chase Daniel playing. Not sure this game has been Mitch's fault TBH. Nagy ran that god awful option play on 3rd and 1.


Was Mitch the biggest reason they lost? Maybe not? Offensive line play was poor and didn't help, his interception wasn't on him but on the receiver, and the kicker missed 2 FGs. However, 4.4 yards per attempt on 43 attempts on the day is pretty damn awful. It was, overall, a very poor QB performance. Even on the one drive that was working, his passes were wobbly and lacked precision, and he only had really one drive that was working all day.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#458 » by MalagaBulls » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:30 pm

Pace will do nothing with Buscuit this off season.
There you have it. Whether we finish 7-9 or 6-10 this season is so far gone down the drain it doesn't matter. Due to stubborn pride coupled with fighting for his job Pace will force Nagy to shove Buscuit down our throats for next year. At the most he will:

1. Remove the play-calling duties from Nagy and hand them off to Helfrich or someone similar.

2. Bring in a vet or draft a QB with one of the 2nd round picks to give Biscuit competition.

3. Decline Buscuit's 5th year option to give him a face saving gesture for 2021.

That's all I got.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#459 » by CBS7 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:20 pm

Season is over. Even if we win out playoffs are unlikely with 6 teams already at 8 wins. And we won't win out.

The defense can/will still be really good next season especially with Hicks back. Won't be elite but should be at least as good as this season. Mack has been invisible for several weeks now though unfortunately. 1 sack in 6 weeks. Didn't show up on the box score last night. Getting Hicks back would probably change that.

Really need to retool on offense though. Nothing is clicking. Poor playcalling, poor QB play, poor runblocking, poor passblocking, bad snaps, receivers probably leading the league in drops, our TEs are hurt/bad,

I'm grateful Trubisky started sucking before his extension at least. We aren't locked in. However I don't think we look to draft a replacement this off-season since we don't have a high pick, but we should the following draft.

Not sure what to think about Nagy. He has not been very good this season. A lot of his play calls are head-scratchers, and seem like an effort to be overly "crafty". Why does he insist on running Cohen up the middle a few times a game? What is his aversion to just running it up the middle with big personnel on 3rd and 1?

I'm on the fence between giving Mitch and Nagy one more season to figure it out with some retooling, and finding a veteran QB and getting someone else to call plays on offense.

On second thought I don't want a vet QB like cam. We need to draft a quarterback that will be our guy for 15 plus years so we can at least look forward to being competitive year after year instead of relying on our defense and hoping our offense doesn't suck enough to make it to the playoffs.

Last season was hella fun though.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#460 » by RedBulls23 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:51 pm

HoopsterJones wrote:Pace hasn’t done well with his First round picks:

Kevin White: Bust
Leonard Floyd: Meh
Mitchell Trubisky: Bust
Roquan Smith: Good rookie season, this year meh

Second round picks haven’t been all too great either.

Shaheen: Bust
Daniels: Meh
Miller: Meh
Goldman: Good
Whitehair: Good

The killer is the trades to move up in the 1st & 2nd and giving up other assets.

With Miller I'm not sure if he's just meh or if a better QB would have him looking better. The AB/Steve Smith comparison's look bad now for sure.

Pace has had some gems late in the draft, but like you stated he's whiffed far too much in the first two rounds.
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