Luka Doncic will be the best rookie since Lebron.

[Pennebaker]

Anyway, what really matters, I still think LeBron's rookie season is awfully overrated. Historically it's quite average for RotY standards and there have been several better since he got drafted, some arguably in his own class.

Funny thing is LeBron averaged 40 minutes per game to get almost same numbers as Luka who averaged only 32 minutes. On the other hand Bron was obviously MUCH better on defense from the start.

LeBron had negative DBPM as rookie . I know DBPM is not very good stat, but I believe we can easily say that LeBron wasn't very good in D. as a rookie. Like someone mentioned before, LeBron wasn't that impressive as a rookie. He played a lot, but efficiency was very bad.

LeBron wasn't that impressive as a rookie!? Your experience with LeBron as a rookie must have come mainly through looking at averages 17 years later because at the time, as it was happening, all anyone could talk about was how incredible LeBron was a rookie.



From his very first professional game where he had 25 points, 9 assists and 6 rebounds at 18 years old, to his 41 point, 13 assist masterpiece when he was only 19 years and 88 days old. He had seven 30 point double-doubles as a rookie. And, remember, at the time the only rookies to have averaged 20/5/5 before were Jordan and Oscar Robertson.



And most importantly - and most incredibly - is that LeBron kept the Cavaliers in playoff contention all year until very late in the season. The Cavs finished 9th in the East, barely missing the playoffs. They only won 17 games the year before. LeBron more than doubled their previous win total.



He did all of that when he was 18 and 19 years old, with the pressure of being the most hyped high school prospect since Kareem.

And when LeBron finished his rookie year he was still younger than Doncic was before he started his NBA career.



This quote from Florida Today, Feb 7, 2004 sums up the general feeling at the time:

"Quite possibly his most impressive feat is that he has lived up to the suffocating hype that was heaped on him before he ever played in his first professional game."

Or this quote from David Stern:

"I thought expectations for him were so outsized that he couldn't possibly live up to them. I was wrong."



So to say, "LeBron wasn't that impressive as a rookie" is just wildly off base.

[iggymcfrack]

Yes things look great, except +/-.

That +/- man, a real shame how such a talent is going to be out of the league cause of such a big red flag. We have a 4th division team here in my city in Italy, I am sure we are stupid enough to let him play 5-10 mins a game...

I have some good news, Bradley Beal is double negative too. D'Angelo Russell is double digits, double negative. DeMar DeRozan the same. And many more in SI top 60. It looks to me that teammates have something to do with that stat after all.

Yeah, but for Derozan it’s his 8th season in a row being negative. There’s no way his zero made threes on the season help out a team with the worst spacing in the league. The Spurs would legitimately be a better team if he got injured.

[iggymcfrack]

Funny thing is LeBron averaged 40 minutes per game to get almost same numbers as Luka who averaged only 32 minutes. On the other hand Bron was obviously MUCH better on defense from the start.

LeBron had negative DBPM as rookie . I know DBPM is not very good stat, but I believe we can easily say that LeBron wasn't very good in D. as a rookie. Like someone mentioned before, LeBron wasn't that impressive as a rookie. He played a lot, but efficiency was very bad.

LeBron wasn't that impressive as a rookie!? Your experience with LeBron as a rookie must have come mainly through looking at averages 17 years later because at the time, as it was happening, all anyone could talk about was how incredible LeBron was a rookie.



From his very first professional game where he had 25 points, 9 assists and 6 rebounds at 18 years old, to his 41 point, 13 assist masterpiece when he was only 19 years and 88 days old. He had seven 30 point double-doubles as a rookie. And, remember, at the time the only rookies to have averaged 20/5/5 before were Jordan and Oscar Robertson.



And most importantly - and most incredibly - is that LeBron kept the Cavaliers in playoff contention all year until very late in the season. The Cavs finished 9th in the East, barely missing the playoffs. They only won 17 games the year before. LeBron more than doubled their previous win total.



He did all of that when he was 18 and 19 years old, with the pressure of being the most hyped high school prospect since Kareem.

And when LeBron finished his rookie year he was still younger than Doncic was before he started his NBA career.



This quote from Florida Today, Feb 7, 2004 sums up the general feeling at the time:

"Quite possibly his most impressive feat is that he has lived up to the suffocating hype that was heaped on him before he ever played in his first professional game."

Or this quote from David Stern:

"I thought expectations for him were so outsized that he couldn't possibly live up to them. I was wrong."



So to say, "LeBron wasn't that impressive as a rookie" is just wildly off base.

He’s just saying LeBron wasn’t the most impressive rookie of the last 20 years as some people think and I do remember a lot of discussion at the time questioning whether Melo should have been ROY over LeBron so that’s not very out of line.

[Bob8]

Funny thing is LeBron averaged 40 minutes per game to get almost same numbers as Luka who averaged only 32 minutes. On the other hand Bron was obviously MUCH better on defense from the start.

LeBron had negative DBPM as rookie . I know DBPM is not very good stat, but I believe we can easily say that LeBron wasn't very good in D. as a rookie. Like someone mentioned before, LeBron wasn't that impressive as a rookie. He played a lot, but efficiency was very bad.

LeBron wasn't that impressive as a rookie!? Your experience with LeBron as a rookie must have come mainly through looking at averages 17 years later because at the time, as it was happening, all anyone could talk about was how incredible LeBron was a rookie.



From his very first professional game where he had 25 points, 9 assists and 6 rebounds at 18 years old, to his 41 point, 13 assist masterpiece when he was only 19 years and 88 days old. He had seven 30 point double-doubles as a rookie. And, remember, at the time the only rookies to have averaged 20/5/5 before were Jordan and Oscar Robertson.



And most importantly - and most incredibly - is that LeBron kept the Cavaliers in playoff contention all year until very late in the season. The Cavs finished 9th in the East, barely missing the playoffs. They only won 17 games the year before. LeBron more than doubled their previous win total.



He did all of that when he was 18 and 19 years old, with the pressure of being the most hyped high school prospect since Kareem.

And when LeBron finished his rookie year he was still younger than Doncic was before he started his NBA career.



This quote from Florida Today, Feb 7, 2004 sums up the general feeling at the time:

"Quite possibly his most impressive feat is that he has lived up to the suffocating hype that was heaped on him before he ever played in his first professional game."

Or this quote from David Stern:

"I thought expectations for him were so outsized that he couldn't possibly live up to them. I was wrong."



So to say, "LeBron wasn't that impressive as a rookie" is just wildly off base.

I might have used slightly wrong words. I should say he wasn’t the most impressive rookie in last 20 years. It’s true that numbers were lower back then, but he had played 40 minutes per game. His per 36 numbers were 19/5/5, still very good, but his efficiency was far from impressive. It is obvious that his development after rookie year was unbelievable impressive.

[Bob8]

That +/- man, a real shame how such a talent is going to be out of the league cause of such a big red flag. We have a 4th division team here in my city in Italy, I am sure we are stupid enough to let him play 5-10 mins a game...

I have some good news, Bradley Beal is double negative too. D'Angelo Russell is double digits, double negative. DeMar DeRozan the same. And many more in SI top 60. It looks to me that teammates have something to do with that stat after all.

Yeah, but for Derozan it’s his 8th season in a row being negative. There’s no way his zero made threes on the season help out a team with the worst spacing in the league. The Spurs would legitimately be a better team if he got injured.

The narrative was that Luka is the only with negative/negative +/- in top 61 of SI.

[OkcSinceSGA]

ClipsFan has had a good couple years.

Thanks buddy.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

LeBron wasn't that impressive as a rookie!? Your experience with LeBron as a rookie must have come mainly through looking at averages 17 years later because at the time, as it was happening, all anyone could talk about was how incredible LeBron was a rookie.



From his very first professional game where he had 25 points, 9 assists and 6 rebounds at 18 years old, to his 41 point, 13 assist masterpiece when he was only 19 years and 88 days old. He had seven 30 point double-doubles as a rookie. And, remember, at the time the only rookies to have averaged 20/5/5 before were Jordan and Oscar Robertson.



And most importantly - and most incredibly - is that LeBron kept the Cavaliers in playoff contention all year until very late in the season. The Cavs finished 9th in the East, barely missing the playoffs. They only won 17 games the year before. LeBron more than doubled their previous win total.



He did all of that when he was 18 and 19 years old, with the pressure of being the most hyped high school prospect since Kareem.

And when LeBron finished his rookie year he was still younger than Doncic was before he started his NBA career.



This quote from Florida Today, Feb 7, 2004 sums up the general feeling at the time:

"Quite possibly his most impressive feat is that he has lived up to the suffocating hype that was heaped on him before he ever played in his first professional game."

Or this quote from David Stern:

"I thought expectations for him were so outsized that he couldn't possibly live up to them. I was wrong."



So to say, "LeBron wasn't that impressive as a rookie" is just wildly off base.

Of course LeBron was showing amazing potential a a rookie, especially considering his age.
But people seem to remember his as an historically great campaign in absolute something it really wasn't.
I am not even talking compared to guys like Alcindor, Bird, Robinson or Duncan, who were immediately MVP candidates, but even the likes of Melo, Wade, Paul, Griffin or Simmons.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Luka is the new face of the NBA. A true maestro. What's more for me is he's the most fun player to watch hands down. He reminds me of Magic where every game is a true show, and he makes at least a few mind blowing plays. He's basically a more physical James Harden with none of the antics and flopping. Imagine a James Harden that didn't flop or travel nonstop? Would be a fun guy to watch right?

What's scary to me is... he is ahead of where freaking LEBRON was at this age. It's just nuts to think about. From both a production and skillset POV.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Luka reminds me of a Harden/Dirk/Nash type who can anchor elite offenses, he's better than all those guys if you compare them in 2nd seasons. His defense is suspect and will never be close to LeBron in that category. He will be an all time great offensive anchor that doesn't play defense like Harden/Nash/Dirk level player

[OkcSinceSGA]

Luka reminds me of a Harden/Dirk/Nash type who can anchor elite offenses, he's better than all those guys if you compare them in 2nd seasons. His defense is suspect and will never be close to LeBron in that category. He will be an all time great offensive anchor that doesn't play defense like Harden/Nash/Dirk level player

He's already a much more capable/versatile defender than those guys though. Also Dirk+Nash are MVP guys, so that's not a bad thing.

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Luka reminds me of a Harden/Dirk/Nash type who can anchor elite offenses, he's better than all those guys if you compare them in 2nd seasons. His defense is suspect and will never be close to LeBron in that category. He will be an all time great offensive anchor that doesn't play defense like Harden/Nash/Dirk level player

He's already a much more capable/versatile defender than those guys though. Also Dirk+Nash are MVP guys, so that's not a bad thing.

Yeah i like Luka, I wasn't insulting him. I was just giving my opinion on Luka. I'm banned from PC board permanently now and couldn't post in the luka thread so I used this one instead hahah. Luka will be a great offensive anchor with average defense and athleticism, just like the last mavs star Dirk. Comparing him to LeBron will overwhelm him though.

PS: hope KL2 returns soon

[Ron Swanson]

What a weird thread to bump. Luka is having one of the greatest sophomore years ever, but he was in no way a better rookie than Blake Griffin or Towns, who were also better rookies than Lebron, unless all you care about is PPG.

[freethedevil]

Funny thing is LeBron averaged 40 minutes per game to get almost same numbers as Luka who averaged only 32 minutes. On the other hand Bron was obviously MUCH better on defense from the start.

LeBron had negative DBPM as rookie . I know DBPM is not very good stat, but I believe we can easily say that LeBron wasn't very good in D. as a rookie. Like someone mentioned before, LeBron wasn't that impressive as a rookie. He played a lot, but efficiency was very bad.

LeBron wasn't that impressive as a rookie!? Your experience with LeBron as a rookie must have come mainly through looking at averages 17 years later because at the time, as it was happening, all anyone could talk about was how incredible LeBron was a rookie.

.

How is other people's opinions a valid argument?

Way to destroy all your credibility

[Forte IV]

Dont mind me just casually up voting people who got it way wrong

[mixerball]

Dont mind me just casually up voting people who got it way wrong

thanks for the upvote but you also got my take wrong.

[Pennebaker]

LeBron had negative DBPM as rookie . I know DBPM is not very good stat, but I believe we can easily say that LeBron wasn't very good in D. as a rookie. Like someone mentioned before, LeBron wasn't that impressive as a rookie. He played a lot, but efficiency was very bad.

LeBron wasn't that impressive as a rookie!? Your experience with LeBron as a rookie must have come mainly through looking at averages 17 years later because at the time, as it was happening, all anyone could talk about was how incredible LeBron was a rookie.

.

How is other people's opinions a valid argument?

Way to destroy all your credibility

In response to someone else's opinion? Totally valid. Besides, it's reality. It is fact. That he impressed everyone is absolute fact.

[Roger Murdock]

LeBrons rookie season was more impressive in that it was painfully obvious we were watching someone who would go down as a top-10 all time player.

Someone like Blake Griffin was a better player as a rookie than LeBron was. But LeBron had such a diverse skill set and so many tools. It was clear as day it was the start of something special. Griffin was basically a high flying, rim rattling force who people knew would improve, but didn't think could be an all timer. I'd say thats the difference.

If I had to win a game using any rookie of the last 20 years, LeBron would probably be like my 4th or 5th choice. But if you had to pick a player to build around based on their rookie season everyone would take LeBron.

[Forte IV]

Dont mind me just casually up voting people who got it way wrong

thanks for the upvote but you also got my take wrong.

Somewhere along the way I started upvoting people who were right too

[Theocy]

Not mavs fan but really love this topic.

There are people saying he doesn't have a signature move (at the age of 18) and he's never gonna score

Omfg this topic is brilliantly ultimately and savagely epic.

Even if he stops growing right now the guy will be a multi year all star on his somophore year. Name 10 players who did that better

[stoo]

people are simply often afraid of greatness when they see it. Humans are the only animal species that have the ability to ignore what they see