OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond

[Red Larrivee]

the unspoken part of this is that trubisky hasn't have a lot to work with

I agree. This is one of those relationships where everyone is to blame. A fish stinks from the head down:

1. Ownership chose Ryan Pace over Chris Ballard. Ballard has been significantly more impressive as a GM. He rebuilt the Colts offensive line into an elite unit, hired a good coach in Frank Reich, who rejuvenated Andrew Luck and had Jacoby Brissett playing like a competent starter. Pace is not a bad GM by any means, but there was a chance to grab a better name.

2. Pace evaluated the QB position poorly. He signed Mike Glennon as a bridge QB and consolidated draft picks to overdraft Trubisky. He's also consolidated draft picks to select Anthony Miller (who's been a dud this season) and David Montgomery (who's been a dud this season). His first round picks so far have been Kevin White, Leonard Floyd, Mitchell Trubisky, and Roquan Smith. The Bears haven't got much out of that quartet. It's hard to have faith that Pace will find the QB the Bears desperately need. Pace has been a mixed bag overall.

3. Matt Nagy is tough to judge. You can value him as the Coach of the Year he was a year ago or the incompetent playcaller he is this year. Either way, it's fair to question whether he has a system that a QB can successfully grow in. I suspect he won't be fired and his 3rd season will tell us which coach he really is.

4. Trubisky hasn't had much to work with, but he also has failed at the basics of being a QB talent that you expect from a #2 pick in any draft. He stinks under pressure, his footwork is sloppy in the pocket, he doesn't read the field well or quickly, he's inaccurate, and he frequently makes bad decisions. 2 different coaches have built offenses that required Trubisky to do as little as possible, because they didn't believe in him to execute the bare minimum. Trubisky seems like a nice guy, who I think will do anything to win, but he just doesn't have the skill or talent to be a successful long-term starting QB.

Football is interesting, because you're always one offseason away from turning things around. It's not like the NBA where you may need several years. So, I don't think the Bears are completely out of it with this group long-term. There's still a very good defense here. It's really up to the other side of the ball to right the ship.

[GetBuLLish]

the unspoken part of this is that trubisky hasn't have a lot to work with

I agree. This is one of those relationships where everyone is to blame. A fish stinks from the head down:

1. Ownership chose Ryan Pace over Chris Ballard. Ballard has been significantly more impressive as a GM. He rebuilt the Colts offensive line into an elite unit, hired a good coach in Frank Reich, who rejuvenated Andrew Luck and had Jacoby Brissett playing like a competent starter. Pace is not a bad GM by any means, but there was a chance to grab a better name.

2. Pace evaluated the QB position poorly. He signed Mike Glennon as a bridge QB and consolidated draft picks to overdraft Trubisky. He's also consolidated draft picks to select Anthony Miller (who's been a dud this season) and David Montgomery (who's been a dud this season). His first round picks so far have been Kevin White, Leonard Floyd, Mitchell Trubisky, and Roquan Smith. The Bears haven't got much out of that quartet. It's hard to have faith that Pace will find the QB the Bears desperately need. Pace has been a mixed bag overall.

3. Matt Nagy is tough to judge. You can value him as the Coach of the Year he was a year ago or the incompetent playcaller he is this year. Either way, it's fair to question whether he has a system that a QB can successfully grow in. I suspect he won't be fired and his 3rd season will tell us which coach he really is.

4. Trubisky hasn't had much to work with, but he also has failed at the basics of being a QB talent that you expect from a #2 pick in any draft. He stinks under pressure, his footwork is sloppy in the pocket, he doesn't read the field well or quickly, he's inaccurate, and he frequently makes bad decisions. 2 different coaches have built offenses that required Trubisky to do as little as possible, because they didn't believe in him to execute the bare minimum. Trubisky seems like a nice guy, who I think will do anything to win, but he just doesn't have the skill or talent to be a successful long-term starting QB.

Football is interesting, because you're always one offseason away from turning things around. It's not like the NBA where you may need several years. So, I don't think the Bears are completely out of it with this group long-term. There's still a very good defense here. It's really up to the other side of the ball to right the ship.

Agree with every word of your post. Well put.

[dice]

Ryan Pace will be fired at the end of the season, along with Matt Nagy. We need fresh blood at GM, coaching staff, and scouts. We have too many incompetent bums recommending busts.

I would not hold my breathe on that happening. Only scenario I see Nagy and Pace gets fired at the end of the season is if the Bears lose the remainder of their games and the Raiders having a top 5 pick courtesy of the Bears crappy play. Otherwise, I see both back next season with a new QB. Bears CANNOT go into 2020 with Trubisky on the roster.

trubisky will be on the roster in 2020. his contract is guaranteed and i can't see him being traded

[dougthonus]

trubisky will be on the roster in 2020. his contract is guaranteed and i can't see him being traded

Beyond that, being on the roster isn't a problem. He needs someone to compete with that is legit. Then if he has grown enough to beat out a legit #1 fine and if not he's an appropriately paid backup.

[dice]

trubisky will be on the roster in 2020. his contract is guaranteed and i can't see him being traded

Beyond that, being on the roster isn't a problem. He needs someone to compete with that is legit. Then if he has grown enough to beat out a legit #1 fine and if not he's an appropriately paid backup.

chase daniel isn't legit? he threw for a boatload of yards in college

[Jeffster81]

Ryan Pace will be fired at the end of the season, along with Matt Nagy. We need fresh blood at GM, coaching staff, and scouts. We have too many incompetent bums recommending busts.

I would not hold my breathe on that happening. Only scenario I see Nagy and Pace gets fired at the end of the season is if the Bears lose the remainder of their games and the Raiders having a top 5 pick courtesy of the Bears crappy play. Otherwise, I see both back next season with a new QB. Bears CANNOT go into 2020 with Trubisky on the roster.

trubisky will be on the roster in 2020. his contract is guaranteed and i can't see him being traded

Guarantee or not, Trubisky CANNOT be on this team next year. If he is, then Bears might as well tell the sports world they are punting 2020.

In the off-chance Mitch is on the roster next year, he cannot be named the starter.

[dice]

I would not hold my breathe on that happening. Only scenario I see Nagy and Pace gets fired at the end of the season is if the Bears lose the remainder of their games and the Raiders having a top 5 pick courtesy of the Bears crappy play. Otherwise, I see both back next season with a new QB. Bears CANNOT go into 2020 with Trubisky on the roster.

trubisky will be on the roster in 2020. his contract is guaranteed and i can't see him being traded

Guarantee or not, Trubisky CANNOT be on this team next year. If he is, then Bears might as well tell the sports world they are punting 2020.

well, that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. he is a sunk cost for next year. the bears can either trade him (and they won't get much in return), cut him (which means they'll be paying three QBs next year), keep him as a backup or start him. not at least keeping him as a backup just doesn't make much sense at this stage. he's certainly at minimum a quality backup given that he knows the system. how much better is the team going to find as a backup w/o paying several million bucks a year in addition to the 8 mil that they'll be paying trubisky? they'd be paying the backup QB position the same as a low level free agent starter. the bears are simply not in a position to be spending money like that. adding, say, cam newton at the $21 mil he is owed would then have the bears spending as much as any team in the league at the QB position

if i were you i'd be worried about trubisky showing some improvement at the end of the year and getting another shot as starter. signing cam would be a last resort given how much money is committed to the defense next season:

bears 101 mil (no trevathan, clinton-dix, kwiatkoski, williams or robertson-harris)
steelers 93 mil
niners 89 mil
browns 88 mil
vikings 86 mil
jets 83 mil
jags 81 mil
chiefs 78 mil

[Jeffster81]

trubisky will be on the roster in 2020. his contract is guaranteed and i can't see him being traded

Guarantee or not, Trubisky CANNOT be on this team next year. If he is, then Bears might as well tell the sports world they are punting 2020.

well, that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. he is a sunk cost for next year. the bears can either trade him (and they won't get much in return), cut him (which means they'll be paying three QBs next year), keep him as a backup or start him. not at least keeping him as a backup just doesn't make much sense at this stage. he's certainly at minimum a quality backup given that he knows the system. how much better is the team going to find as a backup w/o paying several million bucks a year in addition to the 8 mil that they'll be paying trubisky? they'd be paying the backup QB position the same as a low level free agent starter. the bears are simply not in a position to be spending money like that. adding, say, cam newton at the $21 mil he is owed would then have the bears spending as much as any team in the league at the QB position

Then I guess the Bears will be punting 2020.

[jacoby1us]

Guarantee or not, Trubisky CANNOT be on this team next year. If he is, then Bears might as well tell the sports world they are punting 2020.

well, that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. he is a sunk cost for next year. the bears can either trade him (and they won't get much in return), cut him (which means they'll be paying three QBs next year), keep him as a backup or start him. not at least keeping him as a backup just doesn't make much sense at this stage. he's certainly at minimum a quality backup given that he knows the system. how much better is the team going to find as a backup w/o paying several million bucks a year in addition to the 8 mil that they'll be paying trubisky? they'd be paying the backup QB position the same as a low level free agent starter. the bears are simply not in a position to be spending money like that. adding, say, cam newton at the $21 mil he is owed would then have the bears spending as much as any team in the league at the QB position

Then I guess the Bears will be punting 2020.[/quote


I agree with you, you cannot allow another year go by without addressing the elephant in the room. It is painfully clear that Nagy has NO trust in Mitch in/outside the pocket. He has literally shrank the playbook for him because he lacks the ability to do checkdowns on plays to develop and properly place the ball where it needs to be for a receiver.

If the Panthers are willing to trade Newton, we need to see what we can get together and send them without further placing ourselves in a hole. Also, Cohen has been misused/overused all year, he is TOO small to try and wiggle through walls. What are we doing? Watching the Bears in prime time is embarrassing.

[ATRAIN53]

Trubisky’s XFL Career
https://www.theringer.com/the-bill-simmons-podcast/2019/11/18/20970353/bradys-struggles-garretts-exile-and-trubiskys-xfl-career

Trubisky + XFL = perfect

https://www.xfl.com/careers?gh_jid=4427406002

Remember when Mike Hohensee played for the "Spare" Bears strike team?

[fleet]

Trubisky is oft injured. Him and Miller

[tgmxd]

the unspoken part of this is that trubisky hasn't have a lot to work with

I agree. This is one of those relationships where everyone is to blame. A fish stinks from the head down:

1. Ownership chose Ryan Pace over Chris Ballard. Ballard has been significantly more impressive as a GM. He rebuilt the Colts offensive line into an elite unit, hired a good coach in Frank Reich, who rejuvenated Andrew Luck and had Jacoby Brissett playing like a competent starter. Pace is not a bad GM by any means, but there was a chance to grab a better name.

2. Pace evaluated the QB position poorly. He signed Mike Glennon as a bridge QB and consolidated draft picks to overdraft Trubisky. He's also consolidated draft picks to select Anthony Miller (who's been a dud this season) and David Montgomery (who's been a dud this season). His first round picks so far have been Kevin White, Leonard Floyd, Mitchell Trubisky, and Roquan Smith. The Bears haven't got much out of that quartet. It's hard to have faith that Pace will find the QB the Bears desperately need. Pace has been a mixed bag overall.

3. Matt Nagy is tough to judge. You can value him as the Coach of the Year he was a year ago or the incompetent playcaller he is this year. Either way, it's fair to question whether he has a system that a QB can successfully grow in. I suspect he won't be fired and his 3rd season will tell us which coach he really is.

4. Trubisky hasn't had much to work with, but he also has failed at the basics of being a QB talent that you expect from a #2 pick in any draft. He stinks under pressure, his footwork is sloppy in the pocket, he doesn't read the field well or quickly, he's inaccurate, and he frequently makes bad decisions. 2 different coaches have built offenses that required Trubisky to do as little as possible, because they didn't believe in him to execute the bare minimum. Trubisky seems like a nice guy, who I think will do anything to win, but he just doesn't have the skill or talent to be a successful long-term starting QB.

Football is interesting, because you're always one offseason away from turning things around. It's not like the NBA where you may need several years. So, I don't think the Bears are completely out of it with this group long-term. There's still a very good defense here. It's really up to the other side of the ball to right the ship.

Some of this isn't exactly fair
1. Ballard got the luxury of starting with a hall of fame level QB when he come on with the Colts (even if he wasn't healthy then) Of course he's been able to put together a more talented roster right now because he didn't have to mortgage his assets for a shot at a potential franchise QB. Instead he was able to get a ton of value. I would argue Pace has done more with less even though it looks like he missed on Trubisky and the team is not great right now. Who was the best player on the Bears when Pace took over? Reich is a great coach but Nagy was right there with him until teams figured out Trubisky.

2. Even though Trubisky looks like a bust lets not forget he was pretty much consensus the #1 QB in that draft. And QB is a position where overdrafting is a must because if you think that guy can be a franchise QB, there's almost no price too cheap. I give Pace tons of credit (even though its looking like its not gonna work out) for somehow actually convincing the rest of the NFL the bears weren't looking for a QB in that draft because the picks they gave up to move up are barely anything in comparison to the usual cost of trading up for QB.

4. Agree with you on this but a great QB should be able to raise the level play around him and he's not doing it. To me, the blessing in disguise with Trubisky's play right now is he is playing so bad they may not be able to talk themselves into another year of it and try to bring in somebody new next offseason.

The worst thing that could happen is that he was playing slightly better just enough that they could talk themselves into another year of a guy who looks like he never has any shot of being a top 10 QB.

[dice]

Even though Trubisky looks like a bust lets not forget he was pretty much consensus the #1 QB in that draft.

yep

And QB is a position where overdrafting is a must because if you think that guy can be a franchise QB, there's almost no price too cheap. I give Pace tons of credit (even though its looking like its not gonna work out) for somehow actually convincing the rest of the NFL the bears weren't looking for a QB in that draft because the picks they gave up to move up are barely anything in comparison to the usual cost of trading up for QB.

1) when the bears were looking to trade significant assets to go up a single spot, absolutely everybody knew they were trying to lock in a QB. this whole narrative that pace was somehow duping other teams is nonsense

2) many teams need a franchise QB going into every draft. only one was willing to give up what pace did in order to get trubisky. because nobody else saw trubisky as anything approaching a surefire franchise QB. such players ALWAYS go at the very top of the draft

3) the picks they gave up were "barely anything"? they gave up two 3rds and a 4th to move up a single spot. for a guy who was barely in the top 10 on the composite big boards. for comparison's sake, here is every trade to take a QB in the top half of the 1st round since the rookie scale went into effect:

-the jets gave up three 2nd rounders to trade up 3 spots and take darnold at #3
-buffalo gave up two 2nds in exchange for a 7th rounder plus moving up 5 spots to take josh allen at #7
-arizona gave up a 3rd and a 5th to move up 5 spots and take rosen at #10

-buffalo effectively traded mahomes with their #10 pick to the chiefs for 22, 27 and 91 (ouch!)
-cleveland effectively traded watson at #12 to houston for #25 and #4 the following season (took pro-bowl corner denzel ward)
-the two examples above involve gambles on the placement of future first round selections. worked out well for cleveland in that regard (despite losing out on watson) and extraordinarily poorly for buffalo
-jax gave up a 2nd rounder to move up six spots to take gabbert at #10

all of the above trades were for guys not necessarily expected by most to end up as franchise QBs. the next two WERE expected to be franchise QBs:

-the rams traded two 2nd rounders, two 3rd rounders and a future 1st to move up fourteen spots for goff
-the eagles gave up a future first (ended up being watson!), 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder to move up six spots for wentz
-washington gave up two future 1sts and a 2nd to move up fours spots for RGIII

[dougthonus]

3) the picks they gave up were "barely anything"? they gave up two 3rds and a 4th to move up a single spot. for a guy who was barely in the top 10 on the composite big boards. for comparison's sake, here is every trade to take a QB in the top half of the 1st round since the rookie scale went into effect:

-the jets gave up three 2nd rounders to trade up 3 spots and take darnold at #3
-buffalo gave up two 2nds in exchange for a 7th rounder plus moving up 5 spots to take josh allen at #7
-arizona gave up a 3rd and a 5th to move up 5 spots and take rosen at #10

-buffalo effectively traded mahomes with their #10 pick to the chiefs for 22, 27 and 91 (ouch!)
-cleveland effectively traded watson at #12 to houston for #25 and #4 the following season (took pro-bowl corner denzel ward)
-the two examples above involve gambles on the placement of future first round selections. worked out well for cleveland in that regard (despite losing out on watson) and extraordinarily poorly for buffalo
-jax gave up a 2nd rounder to move up six spots to take gabbert at #10

all of the above trades were for guys not necessarily expected by most to end up as franchise QBs. the next two WERE expected to be franchise QBs:

-the rams traded two 2nd rounders, two 3rd rounders and a future 1st to move up fourteen spots for goff
-the eagles gave up a future first (ended up being watson!), 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder to move up six spots for wentz
-washington gave up two future 1sts and a 2nd to move up fours spots for RGIII

Based on the historical value you've shown, what the Bears gave up was pretty minimal to make their jump compared to what other teams gave up. You can obviously take what you want about whether any individual decision to move up or down was bad, but it only really matters if the QB hits.

If Trubisky is a top 15 QB then I don't think anyone cares about this trade. We can argue whether Trubisky would have been there if they didn't trade (I think he would have) which makes the trade even worse (and also explains why it cost so little), but even then the real problem is Trubisky sucks not that they gave up the picks. That's just insult onto injury which is always the case if you trade up for a QB and it doesn't work out with that QB.

[dice]

3) the picks they gave up were "barely anything"? they gave up two 3rds and a 4th to move up a single spot. for a guy who was barely in the top 10 on the composite big boards. for comparison's sake, here is every trade to take a QB in the top half of the 1st round since the rookie scale went into effect:

-the jets gave up three 2nd rounders to trade up 3 spots and take darnold at #3
-buffalo gave up two 2nds in exchange for a 7th rounder plus moving up 5 spots to take josh allen at #7
-arizona gave up a 3rd and a 5th to move up 5 spots and take rosen at #10

-buffalo effectively traded mahomes with their #10 pick to the chiefs for 22, 27 and 91 (ouch!)
-cleveland effectively traded watson at #12 to houston for #25 and #4 the following season (took pro-bowl corner denzel ward)
-the two examples above involve gambles on the placement of future first round selections. worked out well for cleveland in that regard (despite losing out on watson) and extraordinarily poorly for buffalo
-jax gave up a 2nd rounder to move up six spots to take gabbert at #10

all of the above trades were for guys not necessarily expected by most to end up as franchise QBs. the next two WERE expected to be franchise QBs:

-the rams traded two 2nd rounders, two 3rd rounders and a future 1st to move up fourteen spots for goff
-the eagles gave up a future first (ended up being watson!), 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder to move up six spots for wentz
-washington gave up two future 1sts and a 2nd to move up fours spots for RGIII

Based on the historical value you've shown, what the Bears gave up was pretty minimal to make their jump compared to what other teams gave up.

except that the other teams weren't moving up a single spot. nor reaching for a guy not projected to go that high. none of the other teams who were trading up for a NON-"sure thing" QB (darnold, allen, rosen, mahomes, watson, gabbert) gave up substantially more

what the bears gave up was perfectly reasonable IF it was necessary to get the guy they wanted AND he was worth taking at that spot, neither of which was at any point the consensus belief

If Trubisky is a top 15 QB then I don't think anyone cares about this trade. We can argue whether Trubisky would have been there if they didn't trade (I think he would have) which makes the trade even worse (and also explains why it cost so little), but even then the real problem is Trubisky sucks not that they gave up the picks. That's just insult onto injury which is always the case if you trade up for a QB and it doesn't work out with that QB.

true

[superdave]

Its tough to draft a franchise QB, even with a top-10 pick. Yes we struck out on Mahomes and Watson (still PO'd that Pace didn't due his due diligence on Watson, but rather did the stupid smokescreen BS attending his pro day). 16 1st round QB's were drafted the past 5 drafts, unfortunately Mitch falls into the bottom 3rd:

XFL - P. Lynch
Backups - Winston, Mariota, Trubisky, Mayfield, Josh Rosen
Starter in good system - Goff, Wentz, Josh Allen, S. Darnold
Franchise QB - Mahomes, Watson, Lamar Jackson
Too early - K. Murray, D. Jones, Dwayne Haskins

Bears absolutely must bring in a starter level QB in 2020- Bridgewater, Dalton, even a trade for Foles. Draft an edge and OL with 2nd round picks. TE is also a mess, perhaps a creative trade b/c Burton is stuck on next year's roster due to dead cap hit. Lots of holes to fill

[DorO]

Trubisky will eat some giants alive tonight!

[jacoby1us]

Trubisky will eat some giants alive tonight!

Ah the sarcasm. Trubisky couldn’t make it in the CFL.

[DorO]

Trubisky will eat some giants alive tonight!

Ah the sarcasm. Trubisky couldn’t make it in the CFL.

So far so good also from Trubisky. Easy win coming home!

[transplant]

Bears win. Good thing.

Bears can't run the football. Bad thing. Not being able to run the football is an incredibly important bad thing. I blame Nagy overall and the O-line in particular. If they can't run the football any better than they did today, they're doomed.