Cleveland Cavaliers @ Miami Heat - 11/20/19 Wednesday - 7:30pm

[BenoUdrihFTL]

Yes sir, creators make playoff runs, shooters are subsidies

No kitchen should have too many chefs, especially when one of those chefs is made of glass with an abysmal AST/TO ratio and can't convert FTs or even layups at a professional level

We've got about 1.5 chefs, and a bunch of versatile onion cutters and for said reason our top hats will likely be rounding 30 mins each

I think Jimmy and Dragic could sufficiently lead the 1st and 2nd units with secondary ballhandlers like Nunn and Herro

But if I'm wrong, and we do in fact need another creator/playmaker/facilitator, then we're gonna need someone far better than Justise. The guy is a straight up liability on offense, his game is just littered with massive holes across the board. And aside from all that, he's nowhere near reliable enough durability-wise to invest any significant amount of importance in as a key element of a coherent and consistent offensive system. I wish he was better but I've been wishing the same thing for 4 years now; the unfortunate reality is that he's a role player in this league and one that I believe has some very real potential to contribute in that capacity. But any team that depends on Justice to be a creator is gonna be a very depressing team to watch

[MadD23]

No kitchen should have too many chefs, especially when one of those chefs is made of glass with an abysmal AST/TO ratio and can't convert FTs or even layups at a professional level

We've got about 1.5 chefs, and a bunch of versatile onion cutters and for said reason our top hats will likely be rounding 30 mins each

I think Jimmy and Dragic could sufficiently lead the 1st and 2nd units with secondary ballhandlers like Nunn and Herro

But if I'm wrong, and we do in fact need another creator/playmaker/facilitator, then we're gonna need someone far better than Justise. The guy is a straight up liability on offense, his game is just littered with massive holes across the board. And aside from all that, he's nowhere near reliable enough durability-wise to invest any significant amount of importance in as a key element of a coherent and consistent offensive system. I wish he was better but I've been wishing the same thing for 4 years now; the unfortunate reality is that he's a role player in this league and one that I believe has some very real potential to contribute in that capacity. But any team that depends on Justice to be a creator is gonna be a very depressing team to watch

You are not wrong

[Bishop45]

Team was playing well with winslow starting too, wouldnt mind him still starting

don't forget schedule has been stupid easy while he's been gone (gg slick op smh)

From Bish

It's a non-issue

It's just that it's Winslow, and any and everything is enough confirmation bias to fuel (the) choir. If I say the latter, then I'm a Winslow Stan

[Lilseb93]

I think the problem for Winslow is that Jimmy is just a better version of him at the moment. But having a guy as talented as Winslow even though he has his problems is still a good problem to have.

[Lilseb93]

And at worse, Winslow can run the offense. Nunn isn't ready yet for that. He's better off the ball and as a scorer. His play making and facilitating isn't there yet. It's still a bit fast for him. The first Q TOs is an example of this.

[Bishop45]

No kitchen should have too many chefs, especially when one of those chefs is made of glass with an abysmal AST/TO ratio and can't convert FTs or even layups at a professional level

We've got about 1.5 chefs, and a bunch of versatile onion cutters and for said reason our top hats will likely be rounding 30 mins each

I think Jimmy and Dragic could sufficiently lead the 1st and 2nd units with secondary ballhandlers like Nunn and Herro

But if I'm wrong, and we do in fact need another creator/playmaker/facilitator, then we're gonna need someone far better than Justise. The guy is a straight up liability on offense, his game is just littered with massive holes across the board. And aside from all that, he's nowhere near reliable enough durability-wise to invest any significant amount of importance in as a key element of a coherent and consistent offensive system. I wish he was better but I've been wishing the same thing for 4 years now; the unfortunate reality is that he's a role player in this league and one that I believe has some very real potential to contribute in that capacity. But any team that depends on Justice to be a creator is gonna be a very depressing team to watch

He's a role player, nobody in their right mind would say otherwise. Everyone but Jimmy on this team is a role player. I can recommend some over-the-counter antidepressants for anyone who needs, but I can't change the fact that Winslow's one of the best players on the team and will likely see around 30 mins on the floor for it

[BenoUdrihFTL]

If Winslow can be molded into a Tony Allen 2.0 I'd take it. And that's not intended as a dig either, that kind of player would be extremely useful on a contending team

[DayofMourning]

Just want to toss this up here for comparison's sake.



Justise at 23 vs Jimmy at 24

[MadD23]

Just want to toss this up here for comparison's sake.



Justise at 23 vs Jimmy at 24

Awesome! He could play off the bench while he develops into the next Jimmy Butler. We are all hoping for it.

[MettaWorldPanda]

We've got about 1.5 chefs, and a bunch of versatile onion cutters and for said reason our top hats will likely be rounding 30 mins each

I think Jimmy and Dragic could sufficiently lead the 1st and 2nd units with secondary ballhandlers like Nunn and Herro

But if I'm wrong, and we do in fact need another creator/playmaker/facilitator, then we're gonna need someone far better than Justise. The guy is a straight up liability on offense, his game is just littered with massive holes across the board. And aside from all that, he's nowhere near reliable enough durability-wise to invest any significant amount of importance in as a key element of a coherent and consistent offensive system. I wish he was better but I've been wishing the same thing for 4 years now; the unfortunate reality is that he's a role player in this league and one that I believe has some very real potential to contribute in that capacity. But any team that depends on Justice to be a creator is gonna be a very depressing team to watch

He's a role player, nobody in their right mind would say otherwise. Everyone but Jimmy on this team is a role player. I can recommend some over-the-counter antidepressants for anyone who needs, but I can't change the fact that Winslow's one of the best players on the team and will likely see around 30 mins on the floor for it

If this happens at who's expense right now? Meyers Leonard? Winslow at the 4 looks to be in the serving. A position he is ghastly awful at playing. The starting lineup needs Robinson's stretch capability's more so then Winslow's play making right now. Winslow for Nunn but I have seen more from Nunn in two months then anything I have seen from Winslow in 4 years. Maybe that does not last but right now all I have is my eyes to trust.

[BenoUdrihFTL]

He's a role player, nobody in their right mind would say otherwise. Everyone but Jimmy on this team is a role player. I can recommend some over-the-counter antidepressants for anyone who needs, but I can't change the fact that Winslow's one of the best players on the team and will likely see around 30 mins on the floor for it

I guess we have different definitions of role player. I think Jimmy, Bam, Dragic, Nunn -- Herro potentially -- are all crucial elements of this squad right now that have and will continue to shape the identity of the 2019-20 Miami Heat. Justise... not so much

You're entitled to your opinion that Justise is one of the best players on this team, but I've yet to see any evidence whatsoever that would suggest as much. If you have some I'd love to be proven wrong because I'm a Heat fan and I want to believe the best about our players. So if the info is there, then by all means. I'm just going on 4 years of eye-testing and stat referencing, but I'll admit I haven't dug too deep into the analytics in search of advanced on/off or +/- lineup numbers or anything

[MettaWorldPanda]

I wouldn't even think about Winslow playing any 4 minutes over Silva. Silva brings the exact size and tenacity we need from our PF spot. Right now all i see is backup Point/SF minutes.

[Bishop45]

I think Jimmy and Dragic could sufficiently lead the 1st and 2nd units with secondary ballhandlers like Nunn and Herro

But if I'm wrong, and we do in fact need another creator/playmaker/facilitator, then we're gonna need someone far better than Justise. The guy is a straight up liability on offense, his game is just littered with massive holes across the board. And aside from all that, he's nowhere near reliable enough durability-wise to invest any significant amount of importance in as a key element of a coherent and consistent offensive system. I wish he was better but I've been wishing the same thing for 4 years now; the unfortunate reality is that he's a role player in this league and one that I believe has some very real potential to contribute in that capacity. But any team that depends on Justice to be a creator is gonna be a very depressing team to watch

He's a role player, nobody in their right mind would say otherwise. Everyone but Jimmy on this team is a role player. I can recommend some over-the-counter antidepressants for anyone who needs, but I can't change the fact that Winslow's one of the best players on the team and will likely see around 30 mins on the floor for it

If this happens at who's expense right now? Meyers Leonard? Winslow at the 4 looks to be in the serving. A position he is ghastly awful at playing. The starting lineup needs Robinson's stretch capability's more so then Winslow's play making right now. Winslow for Nunn but I have seen more from Nunn in two months then anything I have seen from Winslow in 4 years. Maybe that does not last but right now all I have is my eyes to trust.

I could see him usurping 3-5 mins from everywhere but C, but largely squeegeeing mins from the guards

Winslow 4 is inevitable at this point, we don't have the front court depth(defensively) to defend some of the more versatile 4's/5's

[MadD23]

If we get a chance to make a trade for a stud this season, Winslow and DJJ could be the anchors of making that happen. Right now, We are better without them and could be even better if we trade them and Dion for a player like Gallo.

[Bishop45]

He's a role player, nobody in their right mind would say otherwise. Everyone but Jimmy on this team is a role player. I can recommend some over-the-counter antidepressants for anyone who needs, but I can't change the fact that Winslow's one of the best players on the team and will likely see around 30 mins on the floor for it

I guess we have different definitions of role player. I think Jimmy, Bam, Dragic, Nunn -- Herro potentially -- are all crucial elements of this squad right now that have and will continue to shape the identity of the 2019-20 Miami Heat. Justise... not so much

You're entitled to your opinion that Justise is one of the best players on this team, but I've yet to see any evidence whatsoever that would suggest as much. If you have some I'd love to be proven wrong because I'm a Heat fan and I want to believe the best about our players. So if the info is there, then by all means. I'm just going on 4 years of eye-testing and stat referencing, but I'll admit I haven't dug too deep into the analytics in search of advanced on/off or +/- lineup numbers or anything

Justise has been one of are top net rating guys for years, but your definition of a good basketball player and mines is obviously vastly different. He stays on the floor cause he's a good ball player and no other reason, we'll see if that persists. They're all role players, at least we can agree on that-- it's hard to be a crucial part of a team you haven't played on... So yea', in agreement

[DayofMourning]

Need to do the Mo Wagner/Zach Collins trade I suggested. Get shooting and defense (at least partially). Gonna send a page to Elisburg.

[QUIZ]

Not to beat a dead horse but I posted this a while ago so I figured I'd update it.

116/119 - With Justise = .494 - 40 win team with Justise.

66/40 - Without Justise = .623 - 51 win team without Justise.

[HeatFanLifer]

If we get a chance to make a trade for a stud this season, Winslow and DJJ could be the anchors of making that happen. Right now, We are better without them and could be even better if we trade them and Dion for a player like Gallo.

I would even think Lamarcus Aldridge for JJ/Mion/Silva could get a good player without even giving up Winnie. Spurs aren’t going anywhere this season. LMA is on a two year contract so if he fails it would not over burden the Heat. Yeah the Heat would lose Silva, but it’s worth looking into.

[MadD23]

If we get a chance to make a trade for a stud this season, Winslow and DJJ could be the anchors of making that happen. Right now, We are better without them and could be even better if we trade them and Dion for a player like Gallo.

I would even think Lamarcus Aldridge for JJ/Mion/Silva could get a good player without even giving up Winnie. Spurs aren’t going anywhere this season. LMA is on a two year contract so if he fails it would not over burden the Heat. Yeah the Heat would lose Silva, but it’s worth looking into.

Would preffer a player that's a bit younger and a sniper from 3 to play alongside Bam.

[DayofMourning]

Wouldn't move anyone for LMA. Too past his prime.