Jayson Tatum Is Struggling Because...

[MagicBagley18]

I’m just so glad Ainge made him untouchable cause it turns out Ingram is the way better player with much more star potential.

Every trade for a star Danny refuses to do buries the Celts a little deeper in the grave.

Sarcasm?

I agree I'd take Ingram over Tatum. But Ainge has to be feeling pretty good about Tatum and Brown right now. Tatum is a 21/7/2 with great defense at just 21 years old on a team that is 11-3. I think Ainge is feeling damn good at the moment.

He's a fine player no argument there, but he could have got Anthony Davis for Tatum plus change if he had wanted I guarantee it and he passed. Anthony Davis. There's just no comparison in my mind and now the Lakers are set to challenge for a championship for the next few years. For the celtics, they'll be an underdog playoff team as usual but there's no way they make it past the second round.

For a rental- that’s the huge caveat your leaving out. A 1 year rental. He had no desire to come to Boston and most def didn’t wanna come to boston with no kyrie. So when you say that as an example state the facts. Once kyrie was gone and he was gone (AD Wasn’t changing that as it’s been said kyrie told Ainge at the end of season meetings he was leaving Boston) trading Tatum for a rental is utterly ridiculous and stupid as hell.

If he was open to re-signing it’s a no brainer to trade Tatum, if kyrie returned its probably even worth the risk trying to trade and convince him on Boston long term but trading for just AD and including Tatum and everything else leaves you nowhere in 1 calendar year. Meanwhile brown and Tatum have been huge for the Celtics this season.

You’re comparing apples to oranges, try comparing apples to apples and you’d make some sense.

[Darth Celtic]

I’m just so glad Ainge made him untouchable cause it turns out Ingram is the way better player with much more star potential.

Every trade for a star Danny refuses to do buries the Celts a little deeper in the grave.

Sarcasm?

I agree I'd take Ingram over Tatum. But Ainge has to be feeling pretty good about Tatum and Brown right now. Tatum is a 21/7/2 with great defense at just 21 years old on a team that is 11-3. I think Ainge is feeling damn good at the moment.

Funny thing is, i'll watch Ingram playing, the entire game, and know that he is losing games for them by playing, then i'll watch a Tatum game and know he is doing things to win games yet I can check out ESPN stats after and not understand what I am seeing.

Then I look at the standing and say, yup. I still don't see Ingram as a building block on a winning team.

[Duke4life831]

I’m just so glad Ainge made him untouchable cause it turns out Ingram is the way better player with much more star potential.

Every trade for a star Danny refuses to do buries the Celts a little deeper in the grave.

Sarcasm?

I agree I'd take Ingram over Tatum. But Ainge has to be feeling pretty good about Tatum and Brown right now. Tatum is a 21/7/2 with great defense at just 21 years old on a team that is 11-3. I think Ainge is feeling damn good at the moment.

He's a fine player no argument there, but he could have got Anthony Davis for Tatum plus change if he had wanted I guarantee it and he passed. Anthony Davis. There's just no comparison in my mind and now the Lakers are set to challenge for a championship for the next few years. For the celtics, they'll be an underdog playoff team as usual but there's no way they make it past the second round.

He couldn't use Tatum in a trade for AD. A trade for AD was literally impossible for Boston last year unless it involved Kyrie because of that weird cap rule.

Then if it comes to trades for kawhi or Butler, Tatum wasn't even really talked about, it was Brown.

[lamscott]

You all think Brandon Ingram is better than Tatum?????

Wooooo. How the tides have changed.

[VanWest82]

I'd love to know if there's an inverse correlation between his number of dribbles and FG% at the rim. My gut says there is and that's part of the reason Tatum has struggled finishing around the basket this year (as appose to just being a little unlucky). Last two years he was mostly a 1-2 dribble player. He'd catch the ball on a cut or vs. a close out, take one hard dribble, and go up. He has the ball in his hands more this year. You'd think it shouldn't matter but it doesn't always work that way.

[WillyJakkz]

You can tell who watches him play and who looks at box scores just by the posts here. He’s been great for Boston. Rebound, defense, shot selection all much improved. Making decisions on offense quicker, greatly reduced long 2s from his game and his shooting 3s and layups primarily, except for occasional lapse.

After this genius thread he finished the game 12-24 against 3 of the best perimeter players in the entire league, and while he has been bad at finishing around the rim- he gets there’s routinely and they will start to even out. Kids a stud plain and simple.

Weak comeback when you use stats to prove your point (12-24 fg) but neglect them for the other point (.408 fg on the yr prior to the game).

His current fg% is .412 which means it went up a .04. His 3pt% is lower than his rookie season while he also has doubled the amount of 3's per game.

Not gonna dog him because I like him as a player and this isn't what the thread is for. So as much as you tried to negate the "genius thread" what is the reason for his lower offensive percentages production? More usage?

Actually, I used stats to reference how asinine and poorly timed this thread was- not as a referendum on his season. I watch his game and it’s clear you haven’t this season. If you did you’d see the shots he’s taking and making and also he shots he’s missing. the shots he’s struggling on, They are all within close range to the basket which for his development is great news because those shots last year would be mid range or deep 2s- the worst shot in today’s nba.

He’s made a conscience effort to attack, attack, attack and it’s going to pay dividends for his career but it’s something he isn’t used to so his dip in fg will reflect that but it will even out. Not only that but that % reflects a historically bad 1/18 shooting night of which many of those shots were good looks, not forced that he just didn’t hit for whatever reason- his splits excluding that aberration are more in line.

It’s the shots he’s no longer taking that’s the story, not what his % is. He’s cut the amount of deep 2s he used to love -almost entirely out of his game. While He may never be an elite closer at the basket - he also won’t be as bad as he is now (which I think is the worst in the nba currently)

Rebounds, assists, steals are all up as are his minutes by about a 3 mpg average and he cut the amount of shots from 16 ft to the 3 point line in half. He was and I believe still is, leading the league in plus minus. He’s shooting almost double the amount of 3s he took last year and shooting at almost 40% (39% to be exact). He’s been great for us and his defense has been vastly improved.

So again your post was trash and it’s clear you haven’t watched a lot of his games at all and I’m willing to bet your entire synopsis is based upon box scores and nothing else- the idiot argument. Watch the games and you’ll see he’s been great for us

Nah not gonna let you off the hook that easily because with all your knowledge you refer to his set back season (Yr 2) with his settling for taking long 2's etc to now him not settling for long 2's (this season or Yr3) vs my case of him attacking looking like he was on his way to being the next star (Yr1) to now (Yr3) which his %'s are lower and he doesn't attack the rim like he used to (Yr1).

That's eye test, could care less about a box score and the thread was made at the offset of last nites game in which he got pushed around and couldn't finish at the rim. Eye test his body hasn't progressed as much as his teammates or peers.

Therefore the thread to me his struggles scoring seems physical to me. Others said mentally which could also be it.

You jump in the thread hurt because you're a fan, I get it. He's not a terrible player, far from it.

I just thought he would be better than he is as a scorer at this stage.

[Patsfan1081]

He got hot tonight from three but he's not all that and lacks the impact you want from even an allstar level player, let alone a superstar. I don't want to let tatum fans down but the dude reminds me of a rich man's Harrison Barnes, sorry fellas. He did shoot the ball well tonight and maybe i'm wrong, we'll see what happens with him.

If you're going to throw these odd comps from left field you need to give examples as to why they're similar as this is a horrible comp. Barnes isn't a good defender, meanwhile Tatum was not only top ten as a rookie in def ws but is also currently. Barnes offensively is also an average rebounder and a below average passer, which Tatum has shown improvements in. I just don't see how you can say someone putting up 21/7.5/2.5 with good defense isn't all star level. This is with him not being a efficient shooter to start the year, and not because of his outside shooting, he just can't seem to even make bunnies in the key. I don't buy Tatum struggling, he's missing some easy shots but he still has what, a 20 PER with the best +- in the league? He def impacts the game a good amount.

[Patsfan1081]

Weak comeback when you use stats to prove your point (12-24 fg) but neglect them for the other point (.408 fg on the yr prior to the game).

His current fg% is .412 which means it went up a .04. His 3pt% is lower than his rookie season while he also has doubled the amount of 3's per game.

Not gonna dog him because I like him as a player and this isn't what the thread is for. So as much as you tried to negate the "genius thread" what is the reason for his lower offensive percentages production? More usage?

Actually, I used stats to reference how asinine and poorly timed this thread was- not as a referendum on his season. I watch his game and it’s clear you haven’t this season. If you did you’d see the shots he’s taking and making and also he shots he’s missing. the shots he’s struggling on, They are all within close range to the basket which for his development is great news because those shots last year would be mid range or deep 2s- the worst shot in today’s nba.

He’s made a conscience effort to attack, attack, attack and it’s going to pay dividends for his career but it’s something he isn’t used to so his dip in fg will reflect that but it will even out. Not only that but that % reflects a historically bad 1/18 shooting night of which many of those shots were good looks, not forced that he just didn’t hit for whatever reason- his splits excluding that aberration are more in line.

It’s the shots he’s no longer taking that’s the story, not what his % is. He’s cut the amount of deep 2s he used to love -almost entirely out of his game. While He may never be an elite closer at the basket - he also won’t be as bad as he is now (which I think is the worst in the nba currently)

Rebounds, assists, steals are all up as are his minutes by about a 3 mpg average and he cut the amount of shots from 16 ft to the 3 point line in half. He was and I believe still is, leading the league in plus minus. He’s shooting almost double the amount of 3s he took last year and shooting at almost 40% (39% to be exact). He’s been great for us and his defense has been vastly improved.

So again your post was trash and it’s clear you haven’t watched a lot of his games at all and I’m willing to bet your entire synopsis is based upon box scores and nothing else- the idiot argument. Watch the games and you’ll see he’s been great for us

Nah not gonna let you off the hook that easily because with all your knowledge you refer to his set back season (Yr 2) with his settling for taking long 2's etc to now him not settling for long 2's (this season or Yr3) vs my case of him attacking looking like he was on his way to being the next star (Yr1) to now (Yr3) which his %'s are lower and he doesn't attack the rim like he used to (Yr1).

That's eye test, could care less about a box score and the thread was made at the offset of last nites game in which he got pushed around and couldn't finish at the rim. Eye test his body hasn't progressed as much as his teammates or peers.

Therefore the thread to me his struggles scoring seems physical to me. Others said mentally which could also be it.

You jump in the thread hurt because you're a fan, I get it. He's not a terrible player, far from it.

I just thought he would be better than he is as a scorer at this stage.

No offense but find it hard to believe you're using "the eye test". Tatum is def bigger/stronger, that isn't even a question. Espn was even talking about it pregame, they constantly talked about it during Fiba. It's also obvious by his increase in offensive rebounding and his interior defense. He's not missing inside because of strength, he's just missing a ton of easy layups and floaters, his touch doesn't seem as soft around the basket. Who actually pushed him around last night? He's not the type of player to try to overpower somone anyways, he uses his length and footwork. You're also not correct on his shooting. His % of long twos are down, and his shots at the basket are up(from his rookie season also), unless basketball reference isn't correct... You said it though, he's taking almost twice as many threes, so having a small drop in efficiency from three from his rookie season doesn't mean a whole lot. The only real issue I see from him is he isn't drawing enough contact and getting to the line.

[MagicBagley18]

Weak comeback when you use stats to prove your point (12-24 fg) but neglect them for the other point (.408 fg on the yr prior to the game).

His current fg% is .412 which means it went up a .04. His 3pt% is lower than his rookie season while he also has doubled the amount of 3's per game.

Not gonna dog him because I like him as a player and this isn't what the thread is for. So as much as you tried to negate the "genius thread" what is the reason for his lower offensive percentages production? More usage?

Actually, I used stats to reference how asinine and poorly timed this thread was- not as a referendum on his season. I watch his game and it’s clear you haven’t this season. If you did you’d see the shots he’s taking and making and also he shots he’s missing. the shots he’s struggling on, They are all within close range to the basket which for his development is great news because those shots last year would be mid range or deep 2s- the worst shot in today’s nba.

He’s made a conscience effort to attack, attack, attack and it’s going to pay dividends for his career but it’s something he isn’t used to so his dip in fg will reflect that but it will even out. Not only that but that % reflects a historically bad 1/18 shooting night of which many of those shots were good looks, not forced that he just didn’t hit for whatever reason- his splits excluding that aberration are more in line.

It’s the shots he’s no longer taking that’s the story, not what his % is. He’s cut the amount of deep 2s he used to love -almost entirely out of his game. While He may never be an elite closer at the basket - he also won’t be as bad as he is now (which I think is the worst in the nba currently)

Rebounds, assists, steals are all up as are his minutes by about a 3 mpg average and he cut the amount of shots from 16 ft to the 3 point line in half. He was and I believe still is, leading the league in plus minus. He’s shooting almost double the amount of 3s he took last year and shooting at almost 40% (39% to be exact). He’s been great for us and his defense has been vastly improved.

So again your post was trash and it’s clear you haven’t watched a lot of his games at all and I’m willing to bet your entire synopsis is based upon box scores and nothing else- the idiot argument. Watch the games and you’ll see he’s been great for us

Nah not gonna let you off the hook that easily because with all your knowledge you refer to his set back season (Yr 2) with his settling for taking long 2's etc to now him not settling for long 2's (this season or Yr3) vs my case of him attacking looking like he was on his way to being the next star (Yr1) to now (Yr3) which his %'s are lower and he doesn't attack the rim like he used to (Yr1).

That's eye test, could care less about a box score and the thread was made at the offset of last nites game in which he got pushed around and couldn't finish at the rim. Eye test his body hasn't progressed as much as his teammates or peers.

Therefore the thread to me his struggles scoring seems physical to me. Others said mentally which could also be it.

You jump in the thread hurt because you're a fan, I get it. He's not a terrible player, far from it.

I just thought he would be better than he is as a scorer at this stage.

Except, it’s not a set back season I’m referring to at all but his style of play- and his adjusting to his new style vs his old style and why it may take time for his fg % to improve and why it’s been so bad. So again you missed the point completely.

Your hypothesis is also flawed because in year 1 he hit difficult shots all season long, long fade-aways, mid ranges , one legged dirk shots, side way leaning jumpers etc.. it wasn’t sustainable. They were extremely difficult shots that he pulled out his ass. The entire reason he’s changed his play style is to get to the line more and attempt more free throws- something the coaching staff wanted him to do because it was lacking from his game season 1 and 2.

Him changing his shot selection and play style and mentality as led to set backs early on this year but will ultimately pay off in long term dividends that will allow his game to really reach new heights.

The fact that you think the reason for his success season 1 or a big part of his game was attacking the basket, shows you don’t know the player and haven’t watched him much and you demonstrated that by saying his body hasn’t changed at all when it clearly has. instead of allowing you to demonstrate how poorly you know his game, I’ll let you off the hook to stop you from embarrassing yourself any further.

Not hurt at all. Get familiar or get lost ( more so than u already are)

[Froob]

This isn’t a necro? Wow lol

[Froob]

Sarcasm?

I agree I'd take Ingram over Tatum. But Ainge has to be feeling pretty good about Tatum and Brown right now. Tatum is a 21/7/2 with great defense at just 21 years old on a team that is 11-3. I think Ainge is feeling damn good at the moment.

He's a fine player no argument there, but he could have got Anthony Davis for Tatum plus change if he had wanted I guarantee it and he passed. Anthony Davis. There's just no comparison in my mind and now the Lakers are set to challenge for a championship for the next few years. For the celtics, they'll be an underdog playoff team as usual but there's no way they make it past the second round.

For a rental- that’s the huge caveat your leaving out. A 1 year rental. He had no desire to come to Boston and most def didn’t wanna come to boston with no kyrie. So when you say that as an example state the facts. Once kyrie was gone and he was gone (AD Wasn’t changing that as it’s been said kyrie told Ainge at the end of season meetings he was leaving Boston) trading Tatum for a rental is utterly ridiculous and stupid as hell.

If he was open to re-signing it’s a no brainer to trade Tatum, if kyrie returned its probably even worth the risk trying to trade and convince him on Boston long term but trading for just AD and including Tatum and everything else leaves you nowhere in 1 calendar year. Meanwhile brown and Tatum have been huge for the Celtics this season.

You’re comparing apples to oranges, try comparing apples to apples and you’d make some sense.

Davis might not be staying in LA, let alone a place he didn’t want to be.

[MagicBagley18]

He's a fine player no argument there, but he could have got Anthony Davis for Tatum plus change if he had wanted I guarantee it and he passed. Anthony Davis. There's just no comparison in my mind and now the Lakers are set to challenge for a championship for the next few years. For the celtics, they'll be an underdog playoff team as usual but there's no way they make it past the second round.

For a rental- that’s the huge caveat your leaving out. A 1 year rental. He had no desire to come to Boston and most def didn’t wanna come to boston with no kyrie. So when you say that as an example state the facts. Once kyrie was gone and he was gone (AD Wasn’t changing that as it’s been said kyrie told Ainge at the end of season meetings he was leaving Boston) trading Tatum for a rental is utterly ridiculous and stupid as hell.

If he was open to re-signing it’s a no brainer to trade Tatum, if kyrie returned its probably even worth the risk trying to trade and convince him on Boston long term but trading for just AD and including Tatum and everything else leaves you nowhere in 1 calendar year. Meanwhile brown and Tatum have been huge for the Celtics this season.

You’re comparing apples to oranges, try comparing apples to apples and you’d make some sense.

Davis might not be staying in LA, let alone a place he didn’t want to be.

Yup. And the ultimate pay off in a rental- was a ring and the raptors got that and kawhi still left for where he wanted to be.

[WillyJakkz]

Actually, I used stats to reference how asinine and poorly timed this thread was- not as a referendum on his season. I watch his game and it’s clear you haven’t this season. If you did you’d see the shots he’s taking and making and also he shots he’s missing. the shots he’s struggling on, They are all within close range to the basket which for his development is great news because those shots last year would be mid range or deep 2s- the worst shot in today’s nba.

He’s made a conscience effort to attack, attack, attack and it’s going to pay dividends for his career but it’s something he isn’t used to so his dip in fg will reflect that but it will even out. Not only that but that % reflects a historically bad 1/18 shooting night of which many of those shots were good looks, not forced that he just didn’t hit for whatever reason- his splits excluding that aberration are more in line.

It’s the shots he’s no longer taking that’s the story, not what his % is. He’s cut the amount of deep 2s he used to love -almost entirely out of his game. While He may never be an elite closer at the basket - he also won’t be as bad as he is now (which I think is the worst in the nba currently)

Rebounds, assists, steals are all up as are his minutes by about a 3 mpg average and he cut the amount of shots from 16 ft to the 3 point line in half. He was and I believe still is, leading the league in plus minus. He’s shooting almost double the amount of 3s he took last year and shooting at almost 40% (39% to be exact). He’s been great for us and his defense has been vastly improved.

So again your post was trash and it’s clear you haven’t watched a lot of his games at all and I’m willing to bet your entire synopsis is based upon box scores and nothing else- the idiot argument. Watch the games and you’ll see he’s been great for us

Nah not gonna let you off the hook that easily because with all your knowledge you refer to his set back season (Yr 2) with his settling for taking long 2's etc to now him not settling for long 2's (this season or Yr3) vs my case of him attacking looking like he was on his way to being the next star (Yr1) to now (Yr3) which his %'s are lower and he doesn't attack the rim like he used to (Yr1).

That's eye test, could care less about a box score and the thread was made at the offset of last nites game in which he got pushed around and couldn't finish at the rim. Eye test his body hasn't progressed as much as his teammates or peers.

Therefore the thread to me his struggles scoring seems physical to me. Others said mentally which could also be it.

You jump in the thread hurt because you're a fan, I get it. He's not a terrible player, far from it.

I just thought he would be better than he is as a scorer at this stage.

Except, it’s not a set back season I’m referring to at all but his style of play- and his adjusting to his new style vs his old style and why it may take time for his fg % to improve and why it’s been so bad. So again you missed the point completely.

Your hypothesis is also flawed because in year 1 he hit difficult shots all season long, long fade-aways, mid ranges , one legged dirk shots, side way leaning jumpers etc.. it wasn’t sustainable. They were extremely difficult shots that he pulled out his ass. The entire reason he’s changed his play style is to get to the line more and attempt more free throws- something the coaching staff wanted him to do because it was lacking from his game season 1 and 2.

Him changing his shot selection and play style and mentality as led to set backs early on this year but will ultimately pay off in long term dividends that will allow his game to really reach new heights.

The fact that you think the reason for his success season 1 or a big part of his game was attacking the basket, shows you don’t know the player and haven’t watched him much and you demonstrated that by saying his body hasn’t changed at all when it clearly has. instead of allowing you to demonstrate how poorly you know his game, I’ll let you off the hook to stop you from embarrassing yourself any further.

Not hurt at all. Get familiar or get lost ( more so than u already are)

I need a pair of those designer rose colored glasses lol

But but his shoulders got wider... smh a 6'8" outstanding wing player having problems finishing at the rim... My bad for wasting time engaging with this particular poster about Tatum.

[robbie84]

You all think Brandon Ingram is better than Tatum?????

Wooooo. How the tides have changed.

Lol no.
They are both really good though.
At this stage the majority of Celtics fans would certainly not take Ingram over Tatum.
Like Ingram, Tatum's game has taken another level this season. Once he starts converting his easy shots after getting to the basket he's a surefire all star.
Atm he's a fringe all star.

[sfernald]

Sarcasm?

I agree I'd take Ingram over Tatum. But Ainge has to be feeling pretty good about Tatum and Brown right now. Tatum is a 21/7/2 with great defense at just 21 years old on a team that is 11-3. I think Ainge is feeling damn good at the moment.

He's a fine player no argument there, but he could have got Anthony Davis for Tatum plus change if he had wanted I guarantee it and he passed. Anthony Davis. There's just no comparison in my mind and now the Lakers are set to challenge for a championship for the next few years. For the celtics, they'll be an underdog playoff team as usual but there's no way they make it past the second round.

He couldn't use Tatum in a trade for AD. A trade for AD was literally impossible for Boston last year unless it involved Kyrie because of that weird cap rule.

Then if it comes to trades for kawhi or Butler, Tatum wasn't even really talked about, it was Brown.

See the fear is real. There was a time in Boston where management would have been brave and believed their incredible culture would win over the player. That’s what happens with KG and that was the last time they won a championship. If they had managed to get Kawhi despite the cost then they probably would have had a championship last year. This year they probably could have got one if they had worked out a deal for AD. There’s always an excuse to be an also-ran. No risk takers left I guess. Probably what happens when you feel safe in your job like Ainge does. But Celts will never win a championship the way they are building that team.

[Karate Diop]

Eh... Tatum's not really struggling... Yes there are moments when he shrinks because he doesn't have that A1 mentality, but he's getting better in that regard.

His biggest obstacle right now is the selfishness of Kemba Walker. I don't know what happened to Kemba but recently he just freezes out his own team down the stretch and makes terrible decisions...

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using RealGM mobile app

[kulaz3000]

You all think Brandon Ingram is better than Tatum?????

Wooooo. How the tides have changed.

Think? He is better this season and by quite a bit.

[themoneyteam2]

Eh... Tatum's not really struggling... Yes there are moments when he shrinks because he doesn't have that A1 mentality, but he's getting better in that regard.

His biggest obstacle right now is the selfishness of Kemba Walker. I don't know what happened to Kemba but recently he just freezes out his own team down the stretch and makes terrible decisions...

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using RealGM mobile app

Wait you think Kemba has been a selfish player so far?

LOL

[RB34]

Tatum in his 3rd year is putting up better numbers than Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler and Harrison Barnes were at the same stage in their careers. He’s not an all star level player though?

Did everyone write of the aforementioned players this early in their careers too?

[WillyJakkz]

Tatum in his 3rd year is putting up better numbers than Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler and Harrison Barnes were at the same stage in their careers. He’s not an all star level player though?

Did everyone write of the aforementioned players this early in their careers too?

Personally I'm not writing him off. To me he showed as much potential as George Kawhi and more than Butler and Barnes his rookie yr.

I think he can be and has option #1 ability.