Regular Season Game 14: Orlando Magic (6-7) at Toronto Raptors (9-4) - 7:30pm ET

[fendilim]

not expecting a win. We are going to get thrashed

We already did

[ezzzp]

Cliff keeps saying "Mo has gotten better go watch the tape",

Spoiler:

but considering he was arguably the worst player in the league last year I'm not sure that's saying much. && the numbers definitely don't agree with him.. He is a center shooting 34% from the field and every single one of his numbers including his mpg is down across the board. Which is ironic because if he's gotten so much better I'm wondering why he's down 3 mpg (no indication whatsoever that he is on a minute restriction). He also currently has a -8.2 obpm and his overall BPM is a -6.6 which is down from his -.2 from last year.

I suppose defensively he has been marginally better (off the eye test) so this must be what he is referring to, but he is still a complete sieve that doesn't put a body on anybody which results in way too many fouls/offensive rebounds.

Offensively, he has been an absolute trainwreck. He is shooting a horrific percentage at the rim, and still has no offensive game to speak of outside of the occasional 3 or dunk. I know DJ isn't the best distributor for Mo in those PnR situations, but Mo's horrible hands, inability to finish at the rim, inability to shoot 3's, and inability to shoot mid-rangers limits him completely ineffective. He's also a bad screener.

Please, just send him to Lakeland. Give him all the minutes he needs there and try to develop him into a rotational NBA player. He just flat out isn't at this point.

Clifford's quote, while technically telling the truth, is so unbelievably disingenuous that it legitimately insults me.

Spoiler:

Bamba has "improved" from the historically awful levels that he was at as a rookie, but a rotation player that's a -8.8 ON COURT and -10.7 ON/OFF per 100 possessions is flat out unplayable.

This was my biggest fear dating back to last season with Bamba moving forward. Even if he got better, he was so far behind the 8 ball that he could improve and still be a horrible player, which appears to be 100% the case here.

Even worse than his individual impact... Bamba is dragging multiple teammates down like an anchor.

Gordon with Bamba ON: -13.3 NET
Gordon with Bamba OFF: +3.4 NET

Augustin with Bamba ON: -8.8 NET
Augustin with Bamba OFF: -3.1 NET

Fultz with Bamba ON: -0.2 NET
Fultz with Bamba OFF: +5.6 NET

Aminu with Bamba ON: -3.7 NET
Aminu with Bamba OFF: -1.3 NET

MCW with Bamba ON: -9.7 NET
MCW with Bamba OFF: +4.0 NET

The only guy Bamba's awfulness hasn't seized like a plague is Terrence Ross because he's been horrible playing with everyone.

He's awful and playing him at all is actively hurting the team every single time he steps on the court.

Bamba has been awful, but I don't really see what benefit there was for Clifford to throw one of his young players under-the-bus by responding directly to Robbins' trap question. What was he supposed to say: Yea Josh, Bamba is struggling and the only reason he's been playing is because we are gifting him development minutes?

Personally I have been ok with gifting Bamba development minutes as long as they're not with Fultz or Isaac on the floor AND as long as the team remained competitive (in playoff picture). If they could accomplish that, from a development POV I think giving him 12-15 steady mpg vs NBA tier players is better than 25-30 mpg vs G-L tier competition.

I care that we make the playoffs because of how that impacts player development and player values. But I don't believe the cost of going from 8th to 6th seed should be to deep-six young player development. If playing Bamba over Birch was the difference between a 6th seed and an 8th seed, I'm ok with that. If playing Bamba over Birch meant not making the playoffs, then no I do not want that.

Prior to Vucevic and AG's injuries, I felt that the Magic could easily make the playoffs while gifting Bamba development minutes. The injuries have changed that equation. Its likely the Magic will fall behind over that 3-8 week stretch, so I doubt there will be the same margin for development minutes once both Vuc and AG return.

[Knightro]

Bamba has been awful, but I don't really see what benefit there was for Clifford to throw one of his young players under-the-bus by responding directly to Robbins' trap question. What was he supposed to say: Yea Josh, Bamba is struggling and the only reason he's been playing is because we are gifting him development minutes?

Hey I mean agree with you that Clifford shouldn't and won't needlessly throw a player under the bus who is struggling. But at the same time, he also doesn't need to lie to the media either and suggest with a straight face that Bamba's improving when both the eye test and the numbers test clearly suggest he isn't.

There's a diplomatic way to answer the question without taking the bait.

"Mo's basically still rookie in terms of minutes and games played. Young guys go inevitably through ups and downs. Of course we want Mo to play better than he has just like we want all of our guys to play better. Whatever we can do to put Mo in the best position to succeed, we're going to try and do to the best of our ability as a coaching staff. With Vooch out, he's going to be afforded a bigger opportunity and we want him to take advantage of it."

But to basically chastise the media and suggest they don't know what they're looking at is pretty silly to me.

This isn't 1980 anymore. It's not even 2005. We have instant statistical analysis of all things the moment games end. We know instantaneously which players are dragging the team down and which guys are propping the team up.

[ezzzp]

Bamba has been awful, but I don't really see what benefit there was for Clifford to throw one of his young players under-the-bus by responding directly to Robbins' trap question. What was he supposed to say: Yea Josh, Bamba is struggling and the only reason he's been playing is because we are gifting him development minutes?

Hey I mean agree with you that Clifford shouldn't and won't needlessly throw a player under the bus who is struggling. But at the same time, he also doesn't need to lie to the media either and suggest with a straight face that Bamba's improving when both the eye test and the numbers test clearly suggest he isn't.

There's a diplomatic way to answer the question without taking the bait.

"Mo's basically still rookie in terms of minutes and games played. Young guys go inevitably through ups and downs. Of course we want Mo to play better than he has just like we want all of our guys to play better. Whatever we can do to put Mo in the best position to succeed, we're going to try and do to the best of our ability as a coaching staff. With Vooch out, he's going to be afforded a bigger opportunity and we want him to take advantage of it."

But to basically chastise the media and suggest they don't know what they're looking at is pretty silly to me.

This isn't 1980 anymore. It's not even 2005. We have instant statistical analysis of all things the moment games end. We know instantaneously which players are dragging the team down and which guys are propping the team up.

He didn't chastise the media. He just didn't give the negative mongering click bait answer that Robbins was hoping for. He just didn't give Robbins that "quote" he could feed the blood thirsty sector of the fanbase panting for some more negativity to devour.

This comment was in line with what Clifford has been saying all along about Bamba. From day one he has been saying that Mo was raw and that he would need time and patience. Describing Bamba's progress without giving Robbins his "a-ha" gotcha quote by confirming that he is struggling and is only playing because he is being gifted minutes IS a diplomatic answer.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Bamba has been awful, but I don't really see what benefit there was for Clifford to throw one of his young players under-the-bus by responding directly to Robbins' trap question. What was he supposed to say: Yea Josh, Bamba is struggling and the only reason he's been playing is because we are gifting him development minutes?

Hey I mean agree with you that Clifford shouldn't and won't needlessly throw a player under the bus who is struggling. But at the same time, he also doesn't need to lie to the media either and suggest with a straight face that Bamba's improving when both the eye test and the numbers test clearly suggest he isn't.

There's a diplomatic way to answer the question without taking the bait.

"Mo's basically still rookie in terms of minutes and games played. Young guys go inevitably through ups and downs. Of course we want Mo to play better than he has just like we want all of our guys to play better. Whatever we can do to put Mo in the best position to succeed, we're going to try and do to the best of our ability as a coaching staff. With Vooch out, he's going to be afforded a bigger opportunity and we want him to take advantage of it."

But to basically chastise the media and suggest they don't know what they're looking at is pretty silly to me.

This isn't 1980 anymore. It's not even 2005. We have instant statistical analysis of all things the moment games end. We know instantaneously which players are dragging the team down and which guys are propping the team up.

He didn't chastise the media. He just didn't give the negative mongering click bait answer that Robbins was hoping for. He just didn't give Robbins that "quote" he could feed the blood thirsty sector of the fanbase panting for some more negativity to devour.

This comment was in line with what Clifford has been saying all along about Bamba. From day one he has been saying that Mo was raw and that he would need time and patience. Describing Bamba's progress without giving Robbins his "a-ha" gotcha quote by confirming that he is struggling and is only playing because he is being gifted minutes IS a diplomatic answer.

We've all watched the NBA for a very long time, personally this is my 32nd season and I've seen my fair share of raw players come into the NBA, I'm confident that this goes beyond "he's raw". Its purely a lack of effort when I see Chris Boucher at 6'9 200 lbs out working him.Its in his DNA, he has no motor and no feel for the game.No amount of experience fixes this imo. He's still stringing me along though because I don't want to be that team that wasted a #6 pick on him.

[fklt]

clifford hates robbins though. there's been tension between them ever since he arrived, and he puts robbins down in the 99% of the questions he asks.

[SOUL]

clifford hates robbins though. there's been tension between them ever since he arrived, and he puts robbins down in the 99% of the questions he asks.

The only Magic reporter that doesn't lob softballs to our coaches.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

clifford hates robbins though. there's been tension between them ever since he arrived, and he puts robbins down in the 99% of the questions he asks.

Robbins has been a badass ever since he was signed by the athletic, like the dude below said he doesn't have to worry about softball lobs because he's not employed by Magic/Slantinel.

[fklt]

clifford hates robbins though. there's been tension between them ever since he arrived, and he puts robbins down in the 99% of the questions he asks.

Robbins has been a badass ever since he was signed by the athletic, like the dude below said he doesn't have to worry about softball lobs because he's not employed by Magic/Slantinel.

robbins has always been a badass. almost all of the inside info that we know about the nature of team that doesn't fit team narrative has been coming from robbins' stories.