GT # 16, Heat @ Bulls, 22 Nov 2019, 7 PM CT, NBC SCH

[Mirotek]

Jimmy should get just as many MVP chants as DRose did.

[ATRAIN53]

Pinstriped-

Read on Twitter

I'll pass.

It looks like we signed 3 Carmelos
(he looks good in the Blazers red last night and played pretty decently in MIL)

[ducler]

Read on Twitter

[Dez]

Jimmy should get just as many MVP chants as DRose did.

No, no he shouldn't.

[kingkirk]

The Heat, like the Bulls prior to rebuilding, have no way to get better.

I'm no salary-cap expert, but with the Heat having $107 million guaranteed for next year (as opposed to a $136 million payroll this year) and $60 million for the following year, they would seem to have room to add a significant piece.

They'll have about 50 million in space assuming they get down to:
Jimmy, Bam, Nun, Herro, 2020 1st,

Maybe they can make something happen if Jimmy doesn't slow down and someone wants to come and play with him. Though still the exact same boat we were in Jimmy + Cap room and hope. Maybe Bam/Herro/Nun become more legit though.

They have plenty of contracts to deal as expirings coming up too. They have a means to get better. And importantly, unlike the Bulls, they have one of the best players in the league.

[rtblues]

Fairly amazing how Riley, Spo and the Heat can't be kept down too long and seem to always bounce back to be competitive/respectable.

Quite a contrast in organizations. I've never been a Heat, Riley or Spo fan, but credit where it's due, while the Bulls organization appears to have a long way to go.

Since the Heat lost the big 3 they have:
37, 48, 41, 44, and 39 wins

After the ACL Tear, the Bulls had:
45, 48, 50, 42, and 41 wins prior to deciding rebuild.

The Heat, like the Bulls prior to rebuilding, have no way to get better. Granted, the Bulls have a pretty good chance of not getting back to where the Heat are (or where they were) either.

Historically you make some compelling points. Yet, here we are:
Miami 10-3
Chicago - 5-10

[dougthonus]

They have plenty of contracts to deal as expirings coming up too. They have a means to get better. And importantly, unlike the Bulls, they have one of the best players in the league.

Not comparing the Heat to the Bulls at this moment in time.

Just the pining away for their amazing ability to reload. They've been mediocre for five years after LeBron left, and the Bulls with five years of mediocrity after Rose's ACL had us on the verge of revolt.

Maybe the Heat will do something in the coming years, maybe they won't. I don't think they're any clear favorite to do more than be a 1st round exit team this year or in the near future, but they have a shot to maybe get to the second given how god awful the East is. I can see why that's appealing given how awful our team is, but it wasn't appealing to anyone prior to the Bulls deciding to go full rebuild.

[johnnyvann840]

The Heat, like the Bulls prior to rebuilding, have no way to get better.

I'm no salary-cap expert, but with the Heat having $107 million guaranteed for next year (as opposed to a $136 million payroll this year) and $60 million for the following year, they would seem to have room to add a significant piece.

They'll have about 50 million in space assuming they get down to:
Jimmy, Bam, Nun, Herro, 2020 1st,

Maybe they can make something happen if Jimmy doesn't slow down and someone wants to come and play with him. Though still the exact same boat we were in Jimmy + Cap room and hope. Maybe Bam/Herro/Nun become more legit though.

I would rather be in their position than ours... it's not a tough decision. They have a top 10 player (top 15 at least) in Jimmy and solid youth in Nunn, Herro and Bam along with that cap space. Our best young player is Wendell, our best player on the roster is Otto and he is overpaid (which isn't really a problem, but he is oft-injured, which is a problem). Our go to guy is Zach and that is a huge problem in many ways. He is super talented, but dumb as a rock. He can score with the best of them, but is horrifyingly terrible in crunch time, which is another huge problem. I like Coby's potential but I have little faith he will be developed properly under our current coach.

IMO, they have a better, more prudent FO, a better, smarter head coach, a much better top player who is also a two way player. A better financial situation. They are in a good spot to become legit contenders, we aren't. If Lauri can get to a good place, similar to where he was last Feb, and we could trade Lavine for picks, or a pick and a solid two way wing I would feel much better about our situation. I think trading Lavine is imperative for this organization to move forward and be serious about getting back into contention.

[dougthonus]

I would rather be in their position than ours... it's not a tough decision.

So would I. Our position sucks.

However, if I'm picking out teams in the league to play "I wish I were them", then Miami's probably not top 10 on that list which was my only point. I guess if you want to go through every team in the league that's better positioned than the Bulls then it's a long list.

I mean how many teams in the league would you even say the Bulls are conclusively better positioned than? I'm not sure there are any really. They are probably in a group of 15 or so teams that really have nothing meaningful at all to build around except hope of getting the right draft pick or some other miracle.

[kingkirk]

They have plenty of contracts to deal as expirings coming up too. They have a means to get better. And importantly, unlike the Bulls, they have one of the best players in the league.

Not comparing the Heat to the Bulls at this moment in time.

Just the pining away for their amazing ability to reload. They've been mediocre for five years after LeBron left, and the Bulls with five years of mediocrity after Rose's ACL had us on the verge of revolt.

Maybe the Heat will do something in the coming years, maybe they won't. I don't think they're any clear favorite to do more than be a 1st round exit team this year or in the near future, but they have a shot to maybe get to the second given how god awful the East is. I can see why that's appealing given how awful our team is, but it wasn't appealing to anyone prior to the Bulls deciding to go full rebuild.

Significant difference you're omitting:

The Bulls had a star in Butler save the franchise from hitting rock bottom post Rose and Noah becoming shelves of themselves while the Heat lost Bosh to retirement for health reason and Wade exiting his prime.

One team had a stud, the other did not.

[dougthonus]

The Bulls had a star in Butler save the franchise from hitting rock bottom post Rose and Noah becoming shelves of themselves while the Heat lost Bosh to retirement for health reason and Wade exiting his prime.

One team had a stud, the other did not.

You've convinced me. The way they averaged ~42-43 wins a year was much more impressive than the way we did would have been far more fun to watch.

The Heat now have the same stud to build around that we did. We can live vicariously through the Heat and see what the Bulls could have done if only they had kept Jimmy. Maybe it will turn out great for them. Assuming Jimmy wouldn't have just left Chicago for somewhere else like he forced his way out of Minny and left Philly of course.

And I bet it will be better than what the Bulls do. Just not excitingly better. Bulls bet on the draft and going full rebuild and didn't pick the right guys / get the right picks / tank hard enough / whatever. They're in a god awful place.

[dice]

Pinstriped-

Read on Twitter

I'll pass.

It looks like we signed 3 Carmelos
(he looks good in the Blazers red last night and played pretty decently in MIL)

that poster is much too good for this team (and the venue - the UC actually looks cool there)

[dougthonus]

They have plenty of contracts to deal as expirings coming up too. They have a means to get better. And importantly, unlike the Bulls, they have one of the best players in the league.

Not comparing the Heat to the Bulls at this moment in time.

Just the pining away for their amazing ability to reload. They've been mediocre for five years after LeBron left, and the Bulls with five years of mediocrity after Rose's ACL had us on the verge of revolt.

Maybe the Heat will do something in the coming years, maybe they won't. I don't think they're any clear favorite to do more than be a 1st round exit team this year or in the near future, but they have a shot to maybe get to the second given how god awful the East is. I can see why that's appealing given how awful our team is, but it wasn't appealing to anyone prior to the Bulls deciding to go full rebuild.

Significant difference you're omitting:

The Bulls had a star in Butler save the franchise from hitting rock bottom post Rose and Noah becoming shelves of themselves while the Heat lost Bosh to retirement for health reason and Wade exiting his prime.

One team had a stud, the other did not.

And don't mind me, I'm just extra salty because I've been sitting in an airport for six hours.

(though I'm still not particularly impressed with what Miami has done which is my only point, I'm negatively impressed with what we have done, we're going on our third year in and we may as well be at zero years in).

[dice]

has such a relatively faceless lineup ever started the season 10-3 before?

[kingkirk]

You've convinced me. The way they averaged ~42-43 wins a year was much more impressive than the way we did would have been far more fun to watch.

The Heat now have the same stud to build around that we did. We can live vicariously through the Heat and see what the Bulls could have done if only they had kept Jimmy. Maybe it will turn out great for them. Assuming Jimmy wouldn't have just left Chicago for somewhere else like he forced his way out of Minny and left Philly of course.

And I bet it will be better than what the Bulls do. Just not excitingly better. Bulls bet on the draft and going full rebuild and didn't pick the right guys / get the right picks / tank hard enough / whatever. They're in a god awful place.

We can live vicariously through them. Shame the Bulls were never good enough to give Butler young prospects like Bam, Winslow, Nunn and Herro plus a deep bench with two way.

I really like what the Heat have done, and have done so with no plus asset to do so. They're a great org, which is painful to admit, but I'd much rather have everything they have in virtually every department.

Just so it's clear, I wasn't against the premise of trading Butler, but it never had to do with his limitations as a No. 1 or maxing out as 50-win second round team. It was because management had burned the assets around him, leaving them with little to nothing build around him with.

If you're going to trade a player like Butler and opt for a rebuild, you need to nail it. Like you, I don't believe they have. That's damning.

But we're rehashing old ground at this point. I just wish Butler was more revered by the fan base. He never wanted to leave, and as I mentioned, he saved this franchise from true despair post Rose and Noah.

[Butler4thewin]

We win this game and start a win streak I have spoken

[dice]

Jimmy should get just as many MVP chants as DRose did.

No, no he shouldn't.

maybe MVB. no offense to former bears kicker kevin butler. or alfred pennyworth

[dougthonus]

I just wish Butler was more revered by the fan base. He never wanted to leave, and as I mentioned, he saved this franchise from true despair post Rose and Noah.

Was kind of a weird thing because there seemed to be some drama between him and Rose/Noah, the later of which had much more cache at the time. Either way, I can see why Bulls fans don't think much of him. We didn't do much with him here, and he's had enough run ins since leaving that his overall reputation is tarnished by many NBA fans.

Seems like he might be starting to rebuild some rep in Miam now.

[TheGOATRises007]

Jimmy should get just as many MVP chants as DRose did.

Yeah, because Jimmy won the MVP in Chicago

He won't get any chants.

[Red8911]

Felicio should join the UC security team.He looks good and intimidating wearing a suit.