MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] - voting reopened

[timO]

3 man game:

Doncic
Anteto
Harden

[scrabbarista]

Seems like Luka is destined to finish top 5 in mvp voting this year if he plays 75+ games. He's been toying with the league the last 4-5 games.

Not trying to knock him, because he's been amazing, but, to be fair, his opponents over the last 5 games have a combined record of 26 wins and 51 losses. Three of the five are ranked 26th, 28th, and 29th in defensive rating. Just for some perspective.

[scrabbarista]

3 man game:

Doncic
Anteto
Harden

I'd actually go

1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo

as of today. Other guys I'd consider for the top five would include Siakam, Butler, Gobert, and Doncic.

But this is kind of silly, because we're still so early in the season.

[Archx]

The three above

Haha what!?
In what shape or form?

Giannis and Joker being drafted or that 3 yrs or what it was that Embiid spent in the US prior to the NBA?
This is ridiculous
But I'm curious what's next...

Giannis was playing a2 greek league unoticed by the big clubs ,same Jokic in an a mediocre team in serbia ,Jojo in cameroon what are you talking about?

You said they were American products, he told you they were not, you keep insisting they are American products and then you slam dunk yourself by trying to mock him and say they are basically not American products. You're funny dude.

[Perseus1966]

I am not funny probably you are mavs fan(iq 45) ,maybe its my english.
Giannis learned basketball in usa
JoJo lerned basketball in usa
Jokic learned basketball in usa
Flopic learned basketball in Spain
Peja learned basketball in Greece.

[foreigngrammar]

WOW!
I need a facepalm

But they learned how to poop and walk in europe or africa, now did they?

[AdagioPace]

I am not funny probably you are mavs fan(iq 45) ,maybe its my english.
Giannis learned basketball in usa
JoJo lerned basketball in usa
Jokic learned basketball in usa
Flopic learned basketball in Spain
Peja learned basketball in Greece.

wat??? Jokic is the least american player on earth. He plays basketball like waterpolo and he probably eats acronyms like AAU for breakfast
Giannis learnt basketball at Filathlitikos (you should know it better than me)

[Archx]

I am not funny probably you are mavs fan(iq 45) ,maybe its my english.
Giannis learned basketball in usa
JoJo lerned basketball in usa
Jokic learned basketball in usa
Flopic learned basketball in Spain
Peja learned basketball in Greece.

Peja who? Peja Stojakovic? He's retired man, what year do you think we have? Who's Flopic btw? If i recognize other 4 players on your list, only 1 basically learned how to play in the US and that is Embiid. Not sure you're the right person to measure others IQ.

[Imon]

I am not funny probably you are mavs fan(iq 45) ,maybe its my english.
Giannis learned basketball in usa
JoJo lerned basketball in usa
Jokic learned basketball in usa
Flopic learned basketball in Spain
Peja learned basketball in Greece.

This is hilarious.
I guess under your criteria Hakeem Olajuwon isn't an international product since he trained with Moses Malone when he played at the University of Houston for three years.

[Perseus1966]

Jokic played basketball in an mediocre team of serbia ,you tell me that this Jokic learned the baskeball in serbia? Bigg clubs in adriatic league didnt know his existance.
Same as Giannis ,i played in Philathlitikos, the staff were friends or ex players not one club noticed Giannis ,it was a skinny kid but not good for the clubs of A1 league.
Someone saw their potential draft them and they are the players we see.
Peja Stojakovic came in greece age 16 , and played for PAOK, when he went to Dallas he was a complete player.

[Perseus1966]

I am not funny probably you are mavs fan(iq 45) ,maybe its my english.
Giannis learned basketball in usa
JoJo lerned basketball in usa
Jokic learned basketball in usa
Flopic learned basketball in Spain
Peja learned basketball in Greece.

This is hilarious.
I guess under your criteria Hakeem Olajuwon isn't an international product since he trained with Moses Malone when he played at the University of Houston for three years.

we have a serius problem ...
Born in Nigeria 1963 he was a soccer player till 17, in 1981 stars palying basketball in USA 18 years old is Hakkem a product of the great school of Yorumba basketball?

[Imon]

I am not funny probably you are mavs fan(iq 45) ,maybe its my english.
Giannis learned basketball in usa
JoJo lerned basketball in usa
Jokic learned basketball in usa
Flopic learned basketball in Spain
Peja learned basketball in Greece.

This is hilarious.
I guess under your criteria Hakeem Olajuwon isn't an international product since he trained with Moses Malone when he played at the University of Houston for three years.

we have a serius problem ...
Born in Nigeria 1963 he was a soccer player till 17, in 1981 stars palying basketball in USA 18 years old is Hakkem a product of the great school of Yorumba basketball?

So it seems to me that your argument is basically that a player can only be considered an international product if they come into the NBA at a certain skill-level. Below a certain skill-level then they are "US products" because they were raw when they got here.

Explain to me your dividing line between good enough and bad enough to be an international product.

[leolozon]

3 man game:

Doncic
Anteto
Harden

I'd actually go

1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo

as of today. Other guys I'd consider for the top five would include Siakam, Butler, Gobert, and Doncic.

But this is kind of silly, because we're still so early in the season.

Come on now... I get what you are doing, but you are trying too hard to go against the grain if you don’t know who has been better in the first 15 games between Luka and Siakam....

I don’t understand when people who want to appear restrained and rational will go off the deep end to push an illogical narrative.

I get it, Luka is getting too much praise, but Siakam over him right now is indefensible. Luka is quite clearly top 4.

[foreigngrammar]

Jokic played basketball in an mediocre team of serbia ,you tell me that this Jokic learned the baskeball in serbia? Bigg clubs in adriatic league didnt know his existance.
Same as Giannis ,i played in Philathlitikos, the staff were friends or ex players not one club noticed Giannis ,it was a skinny kid but not good for the clubs of A1 league.
Someone saw their potential draft them and they are the players we see.
Peja Stojakovic came in greece age 16 , and played for PAOK, when he went to Dallas he was a complete player.

YES MAN! I TELL YOU THAT JOKIC LEARNED BBALL IN SRBIJA! THATS WHY HE PLAYS LIKE THAT!

But I'm done with you. You're either trolling or SORRY plain stupid. Peja was a complete player when he went to Dallas. I see. I learned somthing today. King's Peja was what?

So Steve Nash is probably an american product. Who isn't? A Volkswagen? Oh no, wait...

And you forgot Nowitzki (I'm just faster who played second league in Germany and all that training over summer in germany with his german coach probably made him an american product. Well, he played for Dallas to say the least

[igorbianch]

3 man game:

Doncic
Anteto
Harden

I'd actually go

1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo

as of today. Other guys I'd consider for the top five would include Siakam, Butler, Gobert, and Doncic.

But this is kind of silly, because we're still so early in the season.

Luka in the same group as Gobert, Siakam and Butler and not in the first group?

These “rational Luka fans” are hilarious.

[scrabbarista]

3 man game:

Doncic
Anteto
Harden

I'd actually go

1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo

as of today. Other guys I'd consider for the top five would include Siakam, Butler, Gobert, and Doncic.

But this is kind of silly, because we're still so early in the season.

Luka in the same group as Gobert, Siakam and Butler and not in the first group?

These “rational Luka fans” are hilarious.

Among the players I named:

On-Off per100-

Siakam = +17.9
Harden = +17.5
James = +16.2


Gobert = +13.6

Butler = +11.8

Giannis = +9.4














Doncic = -5.0

Also, five of the six players' teams have a better record than Doncic's team (Gobert's team has the same record), in spite of the fact that all six have faced much, much harder schedules than Doncic's team. And yet I still said I would consider putting him in my top five.

[scrabbarista]

3 man game:

Doncic
Anteto
Harden

I'd actually go

1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo

as of today. Other guys I'd consider for the top five would include Siakam, Butler, Gobert, and Doncic.

But this is kind of silly, because we're still so early in the season.

Come on now... I get what you are doing, but you are trying too hard to go against the grain if you don’t know who has been better in the first 15 games between Luka and Siakam....

I don’t understand when people who want to appear restrained and rational will go off the deep end to push an illogical narrative.

I get it, Luka is getting too much praise, but Siakam over him right now is indefensible. Luka is quite clearly top 4.

Among the players I named:

On-Off per100-

Siakam = +17.9
Harden = +17.5
James = +16.2


Gobert = +13.6

Butler = +11.8

Giannis = +9.4














Doncic = -5.0

Also, five of the six players' teams have a better record than Doncic's team (Gobert's team has the same record), in spite of the fact that all six have faced much, much harder schedules than Doncic's team. And yet I still said I would consider putting him in my top five.

[Yuri36]

I'd actually go

1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo

as of today. Other guys I'd consider for the top five would include Siakam, Butler, Gobert, and Doncic.

But this is kind of silly, because we're still so early in the season.

Luka in the same group as Gobert, Siakam and Butler and not in the first group?

These “rational Luka fans” are hilarious.

Among the players I named:

On-Off per100-

Siakam = +17.9
Harden = +17.5
James = +16.2


Gobert = +13.6

Butler = +11.8

Giannis = +9.4














Doncic = -5.0

Also, five of the six players' teams have a better record than Doncic's team (Gobert's team has the same record), in spite of the fact that all six have faced much, much harder schedules than Doncic's team. And yet I still said I would consider putting him in my top five.

Completely biased stat which can be explained by the fact Dallas bench is one of the best in the league and their starting 5 bar Luka one of the worst (especially with KP's level so far)

[Cavsfansince84]

Seems like Luka is destined to finish top 5 in mvp voting this year if he plays 75+ games. He's been toying with the league the last 4-5 games.

Not trying to knock him, because he's been amazing, but, to be fair, his opponents over the last 5 games have a combined record of 26 wins and 51 losses. Three of the five are ranked 26th, 28th, and 29th in defensive rating. Just for some perspective.

Most all players do better against weaker defenses and worse against the better defenses. He's still had a tremendous last 5 games or so despite not even playing a lot of those 4th quarters because his team is winning by huge margins.

[leolozon]

I'd actually go

1. LeBron James
2. James Harden
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo

as of today. Other guys I'd consider for the top five would include Siakam, Butler, Gobert, and Doncic.

But this is kind of silly, because we're still so early in the season.

Luka in the same group as Gobert, Siakam and Butler and not in the first group?

These “rational Luka fans” are hilarious.

Among the players I named:

On-Off per100-

Siakam = +17.9
Harden = +17.5
James = +16.2


Gobert = +13.6

Butler = +11.8

Giannis = +9.4














Doncic = -5.0

Also, five of the six players' teams have a better record than Doncic's team (Gobert's team has the same record), in spite of the fact that all six have faced much, much harder schedules than Doncic's team. And yet I still said I would consider putting him in my top five.

On/off is dependant on 4 things that have nothing to do with the player...

Why do you have Lebron ahead of Harden if his On/off is worst and why do you have Giannis 3rd?

Because you can actually see that it doesn’t quite work and has much more to do with how the team is constructed than how a player is performing.

It’s incredibly weird to hold it AGAINST a guy to not play with a legitimate top 50 guy (or two) in the starting line-up unlike your top 3. The fact that you think this is an argument against Doncic makes no sense and it’s partly what your on/off is telling me.

But yeah, not playing with a better starting 5 than the other 3 guys and having a better bench is an argument against Doncic for some reason... The thing some people will bring up to defend their illogical position to not put an obvious top 4 player in the top 4.