Frank Thread 3: FIBA Frank Aftermath

[NYKnickerbocker]

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hot take: frank will have a points-dimes-steals triple double this season.

hotter take: frank will have a quadruple-double at some point in his career.

Bbbbut has he ever had a double double?

His rookie year he came close getting a Trip double I think

[GONYK]

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[B8RcDeMktfxC]

foreign players are a lot harder to mock though. i think your point is right that the mocks are affected by what teams think, but i think a general understanding of where a player should be taken is established and it's kind of rare to see teams move far from that. prospects will fall back a lot when a bunch of teams pass on him but i don't think it happens too much in the reverse where a player thought to be taken 12-14 for example moves up to 6 or 7. like mpharris says, if you want that player you'll try to move back. you just won't take him that early and go against the grain usually. from my first hand experience of watching the lottery, players usually can only move 2 or 3 spots up from around where they're expected to be taken. i'm sure there are outliers but that seems to be the general rule.

i get that. my wonder is if the consensus is a product of us all seeing things the same way? i have a hard time believing teams are looking at DX and NBA draft net like us fans and making their decisions off of it. if they're concerned about taking a guy too early, i'd think that intel comes from things that the rest of us, including reporters, are probably getting second-hand.

i mean, if donovan mitchell is #3 on your board. you have the #4 pick and your #1 and #2 are gone... how do you know how far down to trade? can't be from looking at tankathon.

prophet is right, they surely get info from agents on who is interested in who and at what spot. how much you can completely trust that info is another story as agents have their own agendas.

you post a good question though, "is everyone just seeing it similarly ?" i wonder if there is an element of public perception based on the mocks that they're scared to go against ? are they scared to hear jay bilas say "this is a reach" ? it's possible.

I think that the FOs are all scaredy-cat consensus followers with no thoughts of their own.

Mitch???? Howtf if Mitch a #36 or w/e? Luka???? Guy leads team to Euro-cup & Bagley is drafted ahead of him? These aren't hard decisions.

Donovan x DSJ - also a no brainer, but, ok, its hard to anticipate Fultz falling off a cliff, can't quite be sure of the upside of Fox & Hield etc. However, drafting generally is unimaginative and conservative - because the risk factors for the individuals involved in the process are far worse (more impactful) than for the teams for which they are drafting.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Randle will be gone at the trade deadline. Book it.

Frank, RJ and Robinson will be running the show.

Maybe it's because of your username, but I detect an overuse of the word "will" here. It's obviously "should but won't".

Yeah, I'd LIKE for Randle to be gone but Will here seems to want to will it into existence. No one wants to take on this year and next year of this clowns contract.

Unless the Knicks attach a pick, which is a waste if they are looking at FA 2 years from now, which pretty obviously they are.

I was for the Randle FA signing, but I was wrong. I placed too much emphasis on what he does right and not enough on what he does wrong. Fizdale is at best a "neutral" coach who neither adds value or takes any away (this is a pretty kind assessment) but what he isn't is a coach who reigns guys in or increases their ability to play with discipline.

So Fizdale might be a good coach for guys who are HOF'ers who don't need anything from the coach, but not so good for players like THJr or Randle who do best with some structure and accountability.

I think you've swung too far on Randle. I think you were somewhat high on him originally and are a little low right now. He is what he is: a good, but never going to be great NBA player who has been **** about by terrible FOs with coaches in poor situations (if not outright poor coaches) in LAL, NOP and now NYK. He's a perfectly decent contributer, imo, if someone takes the trouble to organise a team .. and not have stupid FO formented chaos at the same time.

[thebuzzardman]

Maybe it's because of your username, but I detect an overuse of the word "will" here. It's obviously "should but won't".

Yeah, I'd LIKE for Randle to be gone but Will here seems to want to will it into existence. No one wants to take on this year and next year of this clowns contract.

Unless the Knicks attach a pick, which is a waste if they are looking at FA 2 years from now, which pretty obviously they are.

I was for the Randle FA signing, but I was wrong. I placed too much emphasis on what he does right and not enough on what he does wrong. Fizdale is at best a "neutral" coach who neither adds value or takes any away (this is a pretty kind assessment) but what he isn't is a coach who reigns guys in or increases their ability to play with discipline.

So Fizdale might be a good coach for guys who are HOF'ers who don't need anything from the coach, but not so good for players like THJr or Randle who do best with some structure and accountability.

I think you've swung too far on Randle. I think you were somewhat high on him originally and are a little low right now. He is what he is: a good, but never going to be great NBA player who has been **** about by terrible FOs with coaches in poor situations (if not outright poor coaches) in LAL, NOP and now NYK. He's a perfectly decent contributer, imo, if someone takes the trouble to organise a team .. and not have stupid FO formented chaos at the same time.

He's decent but a terrible fit with Fizdale, who doesn't coach.

[Clyde_Style]

Yeah, I'd LIKE for Randle to be gone but Will here seems to want to will it into existence. No one wants to take on this year and next year of this clowns contract.

Unless the Knicks attach a pick, which is a waste if they are looking at FA 2 years from now, which pretty obviously they are.

I was for the Randle FA signing, but I was wrong. I placed too much emphasis on what he does right and not enough on what he does wrong. Fizdale is at best a "neutral" coach who neither adds value or takes any away (this is a pretty kind assessment) but what he isn't is a coach who reigns guys in or increases their ability to play with discipline.

So Fizdale might be a good coach for guys who are HOF'ers who don't need anything from the coach, but not so good for players like THJr or Randle who do best with some structure and accountability.

I think you've swung too far on Randle. I think you were somewhat high on him originally and are a little low right now. He is what he is: a good, but never going to be great NBA player who has been **** about by terrible FOs with coaches in poor situations (if not outright poor coaches) in LAL, NOP and now NYK. He's a perfectly decent contributer, imo, if someone takes the trouble to organise a team .. and not have stupid FO formented chaos at the same time.

He's decent but a terrible fit with Fizdale, who doesn't coach.

Signing Randle to play under Fizdale is like handing pigs feet to a pastry chef

[will]

I think you've swung too far on Randle. I think you were somewhat high on him originally and are a little low right now. He is what he is: a good, but never going to be great NBA player who has been **** about by terrible FOs with coaches in poor situations (if not outright poor coaches) in LAL, NOP and now NYK. He's a perfectly decent contributer, imo, if someone takes the trouble to organise a team .. and not have stupid FO formented chaos at the same time.

He's decent but a terrible fit with Fizdale, who doesn't coach.

Signing Randle to play under Fizdale is like handing pigs feet to a pastry chef

i'd mess with a pigs feet version of a caramel crunch cake.

[GONYK]

I think you've swung too far on Randle. I think you were somewhat high on him originally and are a little low right now. He is what he is: a good, but never going to be great NBA player who has been **** about by terrible FOs with coaches in poor situations (if not outright poor coaches) in LAL, NOP and now NYK. He's a perfectly decent contributer, imo, if someone takes the trouble to organise a team .. and not have stupid FO formented chaos at the same time.

He's decent but a terrible fit with Fizdale, who doesn't coach.

Signing Randle to play under Fizdale is like handing pigs feet to a pastry chef

At an ice cream parlor

[Clyde_Style]

He's decent but a terrible fit with Fizdale, who doesn't coach.

Signing Randle to play under Fizdale is like handing pigs feet to a pastry chef

At an ice cream parlor

run by the mafia

[Fat Kat]

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[GONYK]

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[SmoothLefty21]

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This is without a doubt the next leap that Frank's game will have to make. As a PG, he gets rid of the ball way too soon far too often. In transition or when the D has been broken down and put into rotation, he doesn't force the help D to commit either to him or to his obvious passing target. He let's the D off the hook. He has to take another dribble or two into the paint to really make the defender commit to protecting the rim and then it'll open up so many assist opportunities for him.

He does this a ton in transition where he'll make his first pass to the wing while he's halfway between the timeline and the top of the arc and let the transition defender hovering around the FT line easily close out to the wing where Frank passed it. It's not a situation where the teammate on the wing is out in front and Frank is advancing the ball either. That extra dribble or two, make that defender commit to stopping him and then the wing or corner three will be wide open.

I wish I had the time to put together a tape of all the times he does this. The good thing is it's just a "learning the game" adjustment/development. He has all the tools, he just has to realize exactly what's happening in those situations and punish the defense for it.

[Jeff Van Gully]

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definitely an area of improvement for frank. i think he knows he needs to get into the paint more.

you see him get there and generally look for a short jumper. if he can properly identify passing lanes from there, that'd be nice.

devil's advocate, with player movement there could be passing options when he gets there. i have never seen so much standing around. if anything, once frank dumps the ball off, you immediately see him run a big curl... with almost no other ball movement.

the entire team would look better if things weren't so stagnant. basketball is beautiful when people AND the basketball are moving. defenses don't have to work when they play us.

[SmoothLefty21]

He's gained confidence in most aspects of his game; this remains the one area where you can see his confidence isn't there yet. He's timid about getting deep into the paint because he doesn't believe in himself yet. If (when) he gets it in the next two years, look out. The kid really does have All-Star potential when you factor in his defensive abilities.

[Kampuchea]

Frank is the first player to score 4 points on 12 shots while having 2 steals and being able to speak french. The designs for Franks statue in the Knicks monument park have been submitted to MSG by MpHarris.

Randle so far has only earned a poster on the wall instead of a statue, it shows him bowling over 3 defenders simultaneously and getting a shot off without being distracted by his teammates yelling "I'm open" or coach Fiz smiling maniacally.

[remi_222]

I’d love to see Frank paired with a sharp shooting veteran SG (a-la JJ Redick) while Barret develops at the 3 and Knox grows into a stretch 4 off the bench.

I’m just a RealGM, not a *REAL* GM, but this much seems painfully obvious.

Bring in Frank's mans, Nic Batum. OG French vet for Frank who can help get the best out of him.

You had Noah for that

[Kampuchea]

Typical Bondy
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-frank-ntilikina-brooklyn-nets-three-pointer-spencer-dinwiddie-20191125-6nzzw2k6hva2rligilbsenhzcm-story.html

Frank Ntilikina has been drawing big praise for his play lately, but his glaring deficiency — his sporadic jumper — cost the Knicks in a big spot.
The Frenchman clanked a wide-open trey that would’ve tied the game with 44 seconds remaining, leaving the Knicks to absorb another defeat Sunday night, 103-101, to the Nets.

Rest of article comes back with Nets praising Franks defense

[Clyde Frazier]

Ok I'm officially a frank stan now...

[Dave DaButcher]

Cherry picked stats are the very best kind of stats. Go Frankie!!

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[lloydj]

OKC Trades: Dennis Schroder

Knicks Trade: Wayne Ellington and Frank (Our Best Player) Ntilikina