Around the League - 2019-2020

[Sixerscan]

Checkmate

That's how that works. Vaguely remembers vehemently disagreeing with a take. Self-attributes it as being awful. Turns out to be spot on. "Uhh, yeah but I don't like the way you said it." Rinse and repeat.

Everyone’s right and wrong about takes all the time. You continuously insisting you are right about this or that doesn’t make you any more right.

I don’t even see what the big win is. Congrats you predicted a guy that everyone had as a consensus #2 pick (or more) would be better than some league average or worse players. He hasn’t even really done jack **** in the league besides put up some points on a team on pace to lose 50+ games. Is that’s really worth rubbing someone’s nose in it? If you’re this confident in him being a great player than you should wait until his hall of fame speech or at least until he’s actually the best player on a good team.

Like he said there’s plenty of examples of you being wrong about stuff too, there’s just no need to stoop to your level here. Show some humility for once.

[Kobblehead]

Havent seen Doncic much but his stats are obviously much better than what i expected. Still, i dont think that is his real level and i think he is in for some regression.

What's your reluctance based on?

[VDT]

Havent seen Doncic much but his stats are obviously much better than what i expected. Still, i dont think that is his real level and i think he is in for some regression.

What's your reluctance based on?

I mean he is averaging 30/10/10 on 62%TS. It would be almost impossible for any player to maintain that kind of production, let alone a second year player.

More specifically, i think he is driving much more than his athleticism should allow him and he is shooting 2s at a 60% rate, again higher than his physical profile would indicate. It might be that he has very good touch but i think that he will regress at some point either because he cant maintain that level of play or/and because he is going to get scouted more and the defenses will adjust. He gets his efficiency not from the 3s but from fts and from scoring in the paint and i am not sure how long he can keep doing that.

Still he is playing much better than what most people thought.

[Kobblehead]

I agree that some of the percentages he's hitting at in different spots on the floor are probably ripe for inevitable regression. I also kinda suspected the athleticism aspect played into your apprehension. Personally, I think the importance of athleticism in dictating upside has become virtually obsolete.

[VDT]

Athleticism is just an aspect that is hard to improve that's why it puts a ceiling on how good one can be. There are other aspects that are hard to improve like court vision or basketball IQ in general. These also put a limit on how good one can be.

I mentioned Doncic's athleticism because he doesnt get his efficiency from 3 point shooting but from 2s and fts which are usually related to the player's athleticism. Jokic was also doing last year something similar, although at a lower volume, where he found ways to score efficiently despite his lack of athleticism and elite shooting ability.

[Kobblehead]

I don't think ordinary athletes have a glass ceiling on them like they have in decades passed.

Gilgeous-Alexander and Tatum are arguably two of the best 2-way budding superstars in the NBA and are basic, unexceptional athletes.

It's seems like handle and craftiness are just as important at drawing fouls as athleticism, these days.

We got Harden drawing fouls at the same rate as Giannis.
We got Doncic at the same rate as Jimmy Butler.
We got Trae Young at the same rate as Dame Lillard.
We got Spencer Dinwiddie at the same rate as Russell Westbrook.

We even got DeAngelo Russell drawing fouls at a Top 20 rate (13th among non bigs).

[VDT]

They have a ceiling in the sense that it is something that they cannot significantly improve. But athleticism is not the only such trait and almost all players have something that they cant considerably improve, be it basketball IQ, shooting touch etc.

Skill and craftiness can compensate to a degree of course.

I dont think Tatum is a budding superstar, if anything it is an example of what i said. His lack of athleticism and of court vision puts a cap on his impact. He needs to become much better shooter, and i am not sure if he can, and become much craftier in order to compensate for his lack of athleticism. He is lucky he has a good coach, otherwise he would end up chucking low efficiency long 2s. Still i dont see superstardom in him, he cant really create efficient shots and can create for others.

I havent seen Gilgeous Alexander much so i cant really comment, but the term superstar is used too liberally imo. I would say that Embiid is close to a superstar right now but i would be reluctant to call him that. And i think he is considerably better than players like Davis or George or Jokic.

[Bum Adebayo]

I will tell you, we could be using Melo right now, dude still has game and his scoring would be very useful to us.

[Kobblehead]

I will tell you, we could be using Melo right now, dude still has game and his scoring would be very useful to us.

With a scoring efficiency in the 40% range? He's been actively awful since coming back.

You can't be an unplayable-caliber defender and also be a guy with unplayable-caliber scoring efficiency.

[Bum Adebayo]

I will tell you, we could be using Melo right now, dude still has game and his scoring would be very useful to us.

With a scoring efficiency in the 40% range? He's been actively awful since coming back.

You can't be an unplayable-caliber defender and also be a guy with unplayable-caliber scoring efficiency.

He is still rusty but his game is coming along nicely, it is evident to the trained eye.
Also there are times where you need some sort of scoring even with below average efficiency, obviously we are talking off the bench and in limited minutes here.
Oh well, we still wouldn't win a championship anyways, our problems are much deeper than that.

[Kobblehead]

It doesn't seem like rust to me. We have nearly 100 games with the Thunder and Rockets of him hovering at 50% true shooting.

When star players fall off, they don't stop being able to get buckets. They just stop being able to get buckets in an effective manner. Melo has been offensively ineffective since he left the Knicks. And he's an offense-only player, so that makes him unplayable and drives him out of the league. Portland bringing him back is a story, but a pretty irrational move on their part that will yield no net gain.

[Bum Adebayo]

Deffense is not very important, you think offense is much more important than defense and I agree, nowadays it is all about 3pt spamming and scoring on the ball, things Melo can definitely do, although with iffy efficiency. A guy like that could help us!

[Kobblehead]

Not as important, still important. And not just iffy efficiency, outright gamebreakingly bad efficiency. Melo is a zero on both ends of the floor. If we had him on our roster, his midvolume scoring would be just as hollow and meaningless as Carter-Williams' and Wroten's during the tanking years.

If we wanted a washed player to go get buckets on 40% true shooting, we could have just signed Joe Johnson after we worked him out. At least he's a seemingly good guy that teammates and coaches like.

[Stanford]

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[Bum Adebayo]

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[ProcessDoctor]

If KAT was wearing a different uniform, he'd be talked about more as part of the AD/Embiid/Jokic tier.

He's having an OUTSTANDING season. BPM 9.8, WS/48 of 0.255, and 66.1% TS.

[Kobblehead]

I think he's better than both. I've always argued that. His shooting is an unprecedentedly ridiculous tool for a big.

[Bum Adebayo]

He could be if Embiid's defense keeps regressing TBH. I want to see both in playoffs again before judging.

[Kobblehead]

And I give Towns credit for elevating his game defensively. He's always been a tremendous shotblocker and post defender, but now he's less exploitable in space and on switches.

[Bum Adebayo]

That being said, we also have to consider Brett's influence here, it takes a monumental effort for a player to improve under Brett. This is why I want to see Brett gone way before thinking about trading Simmons, you never know what even an average coach could do with these players. He is that bad.