A player whose impact doesn't match his reputation (yet)

[Pumpkin17]

This conversation should have ended with "I owe you guys apologies cause I used a very flawed model to make flawed interpretations, not even seeing actual games, ignoring the vast majority of the available data and treating people with arrogance and supponence, given that I was keeping pretending others were not understanding my super model while It was simply a flat out wrong model, as it was proven by facts."

You can be wrong as anyone of us. You can use a wromg model in a wrong way and come to false conclusions. But you are a mod and you should not behave with arrogance and supponence in the process.

Respect is due, but is also earned. Class, you have it or not.

[HeatRing2012]

oh look, another Doncic hate thread/post by GeorgeMarcus. who knew?

everyone on realGM knows that GeorgeMarcus dislikes Luka. most of the time he uses lowkey remarks to belittle Lukas game but nearly all of the users in here already know about his hidden agenda.
sad thing is, regular posters would've been warned/banned long ago for persistent trolling like he does. that he is countering other peoples opinions with "your b*llsh*t" is the cherry on top.

as for the topic: using a 10 game sample size to drive a point isn't even kindergarten level of science, let alone the base for a discussion on a messageboard. thus, your premise is flawed.

[Ayt]

Luka is 2nd in the league in +/- since the day this thread was created. Did he drastically change how he was playing, or should people not read so much into tiny samples?

https://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateFrom=11%2F13%2F2019

[Mulhollanddrive]

Must be hard growing up as the unknown brother of George Michael.

[Bob8]

You quoted me saying I was done with the conversation. Where did I insult or mock the poster? Which words, specifically.

Come on... With the "Lol is right" line, obviously. Also, this part: "If you sense arrogance, it's probably the frustration building from your repeated BS. I've been diplomatic up to this point but seriously: take a step back, calm yourself down, and at the very least make sure your accusations aren't direct contradictions to the truth. I suggest not investing so much emotion in other people's opinions."

There is so much wrong with this reply from a moderating guideline standpoint that it's not even funny. I have never saw a moderator on these forums do this, and I'm been here at the general board for 10+ years, actually, probably 15 years if we count the time with my previous account that I lost. This is ridiculous and should not be allowed.

1. The first quote is not a personal attack. I don't see how or why "lol is right" would qualify as one, especially in response to the previous post.

2. The second quote is not a personal attack. It was a warning to a poster repeatedly making false claims/accusations. Demonstrably so. The same poster who took one of my comments out of context, posted it as a thread on the Mavs forum, and gave a title that straight up lied about what I said. Hence why Dirk went in and changed it.

3. You should have PM'd me or one of the other mods about your problem with what I said. This isn't the platform, and qualifies as backseat moderating. I won't strike you for it because I'm not a power hungry dictator, but I am a human being. A human being that spent a lot of time composing a thread, responding to posters and clarifying my argument. More time than I should have probably. I answered BoB's question about "what the stats tell me" 3 separate times, expressed my frustration the 3rd time, and answered him anyway. That's the portion of the conversation you quoted, where he responded with the "Lol" followed by an erroneous claim about working with statistics. So yeah, lol is right.

Another personal/disrespectful comment. I guess moderators don’t need to be respectful in this forum.

[Pg81]

You quoted me saying I was done with the conversation. Where did I insult or mock the poster? Which words, specifically.

Come on... With the "Lol is right" line, obviously. Also, this part: "If you sense arrogance, it's probably the frustration building from your repeated BS. I've been diplomatic up to this point but seriously: take a step back, calm yourself down, and at the very least make sure your accusations aren't direct contradictions to the truth. I suggest not investing so much emotion in other people's opinions."

There is so much wrong with this reply from a moderating guideline standpoint that it's not even funny. I have never saw a moderator on these forums do this, and I'm been here at the general board for 10+ years, actually, probably 15 years if we count the time with my previous account that I lost. This is ridiculous and should not be allowed.

1. The first quote is not a personal attack. I don't see how or why "lol is right" would qualify as one, especially in response to the previous post.

2. The second quote is not a personal attack. It was a warning to a poster repeatedly making false claims/accusations. Demonstrably so. The same poster who took one of my comments out of context, posted it as a thread on the Mavs forum, and gave a title that straight up lied about what I said. Hence why Dirk went in and changed it.

3. You should have PM'd me or one of the other mods about your problem with what I said. This isn't the platform, and qualifies as backseat moderating. I won't strike you for it because I'm not a power hungry dictator, but I am a human being. A human being that spent a lot of time composing a thread, responding to posters and clarifying my argument. More time than I should have probably. I answered BoB's question about "what the stats tell me" 3 separate times, expressed my frustration the 3rd time, and answered him anyway. That's the portion of the conversation you quoted, where he responded with the "Lol" followed by an erroneous claim about working with statistics. So yeah, lol is right.

Continue to double down like that, makes you looks that much more arrogant to me and apparently a few others. I made no false accusation, you said that Delon Wright's impact rivals Doncics, a statement so wrong and so asinine the only one who deserves lols here is you. If you had not made that claim I would have probably not gotten involved with you in the first place considering how shallow and wrong your OP was in the first place, but complete and utter nonsense like that I cannot stand. What is more, I do not even care that you said such nonsense about Doncic specifically, I have defended players like Harden against unfair criticism and completely wrong assessments just the same.

[aliasxn]

It's times like this that I'm really thankful for stats. I'd have thought a 20yo sophomore averaging 29.9 ppg on 49 FG% along with 10 boards and 9.7 asts while carrying an otherwise lottery team to the 5th seed IN THE WEST was absolutely a remarkable thing. Silly me. I can see clearly now that the Mavs would be doing just as good if not better without him. On the other hand it's Trae Young that is having real impact on the Hawks, don't let their 4-11 record fool you.

[Pg81]

Luka is 2nd in the league in +/- since the day this thread was created. Did he drastically change how he was playing, or should people not read so much into tiny samples?

https://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateFrom=11%2F13%2F2019

I guess that means that Trae Young has been exposed as a complete scrub now since he is very much at the bottom of +/-!

[zimpy27]

I've read a few users in the last few pages are trying to undermine the validity of one of our moderators actions. If you have something to say then please just report it or PM it.

If you don't agree with a post or a variety of posts then you can argue your case against it. You should not argue the right of someone to post the way they do, that is out of the bounds of respect. If you weren't biased against OPs opinion then you would clearly see the entire thread is full of people misconstruing his original post and him trying to rectify that. We all have the right to maintain the original integrity of the words we say. I commend him for keeping it together for as long as he has.

Moderators aren't robots but they are chosen because of the respectful way they post. GeorgeMarcus is no exception. If you find yourself in a tense conversation with one then I would suggest it's worth reflecting on yourself and the conversation as well, something you should do with many other quality posters on this site. Use the report function, we monitor each other as we monitor all users.

Now for the rest of this thread, if you can't post about the topic with something inciteful or constructive then please just step away from it.

[Bob8]

Nice to see that moderators are protected like polar bears.

A player whose impact doesn’t match his reputation is leading the best offensive team in Nba, averaging 30.6/10.1/9.8 with 63.2% TS and has the best and historically high PER. He’s first in advanced stats as BPM, OBPM, VORP, WS, WS/48... His team is 4th in the west. But it’s true that his on/off is still negative.

GeorgeMarcus has asked me, do I really believe that Luka is so unlucky to be only double negative in top 61? It looks to me that only one unlucky here is him and his analysis, it’s really brutal to write down something so wrong and be exposed in so short period of time. It must be bad luck.

[stoo]

I think Luka

He is actually having a bigger impact than he is credited for

[Pg81]

Nice to see that moderators are protected like polar bears.

A player whose impact doesn’t match his reputation is leading the best offensive team in Nba, averaging 30.6/10.1/9.8 with 63.2% TS and has the best and historically high PER. He’s first in advanced stats as BPM, OBPM, VORP, WS, WS/48... His team is 4th in the west. But it’s true that his on/off is still negative.

GeorgeMarcus has asked me, do I really believe that Luka is so unlucky to be only double negative in top 61? It looks to me that only one unlucky here is him and his analysis, it’s really brutal to write down something so wrong and be exposed in so short period of time. It must be bad luck.

We all know now that it is all due to Delon Wrights impact rivaling that of Doncic, otherwise Luka would get exposed as the scrub that he is.

[AdagioPace]

Continuing upping and commenting George's CONTENT (given Luka's ascension) should be allowed if done in a respectful way. All should be done while avoiding to attack the person and his perceived believes. That's my take as a general user....

[scrabbarista]

Y'all need to chill on GeorgeMarcus. Seems like virtually every comment that references the OP misrepresents it in some way.

I agree with AdagioPace. Nothing wrong with upping and commenting on old posts. Nothing wrong with good-natured ribbing either. But if you're going to do so, please:

a) don't misrepresent the comments of others, and

b) at least try to contribute something new.

[Bob8]

Y'all need to chill on GeorgeMarcus. Seems like virtually every comment that references the OP misrepresents it in some way.

I agree with AdagioPace. Nothing wrong with upping and commenting on old posts. Nothing wrong with good-natured ribbing either. But if you're going to do so, please:

a) don't misrepresent the comments of others, and

b) at least try to contribute something new.

Interesting enough, I at least used some new stats to backup my position on the other hand I don’t see any new contribution from you. I don’t believe that very cocky person, who 100% believe in his analysis needs that much defense. You should read first 4 posts in this thread, and1 and gif including, and you might understand what was this all about.

[Imon]

C'mon guys, just let this thread fade into obscurity.
This has got to be the most toxic thread in RealGM history.

[juju14]

Wow that Luka, i wouldn't want his negative impact on my team.

[leolozon]

Luka is 2nd in the league in +/- since the day this thread was created. Did he drastically change how he was playing, or should people not read so much into tiny samples?

https://stats.nba.com/players/traditional/?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateFrom=11%2F13%2F2019

I don’t think the sample size is the bigger problem with using on/off. Luka has played better recently, BUT some of the starters have started to play really well. Porzingis is getting better and THJ has been on fire lately.

Which brings us to the clear problem with on/off, it’s dependant on the way OTHER PLAYERS are performing.

It’s really no that complicated. The guys around you play better, your on/off is going to be better. The guys on the bench play worst, your on/off is going to be better. IT has nothing to do with you in both cases.

Why are some people deciding to use on/off to judge impact in the 1st place? It makes no sense.

[Pg81]

Y'all need to chill on GeorgeMarcus. Seems like virtually every comment that references the OP misrepresents it in some way.

I agree with AdagioPace. Nothing wrong with upping and commenting on old posts. Nothing wrong with good-natured ribbing either. But if you're going to do so, please:

a) don't misrepresent the comments of others, and

b) at least try to contribute something new.

What was misrepresented was Doncics impact on the Mavs. No one would have had a problem if the OP would have asked the question why despite great stats and decent to great team success does Luka Doncic have negative +/- and on/off? Instead he concluded that his impact is barely above that of Delon Wright, a certified role player who was never more and still is not more than that. Instead of rectifying his interpretation of his data or acknowledging that literally a dozen other stats tell you quite the opposite story the author of this... "model" remains adamant that he made no mistake and that he cannot have been possibly wrong in any way shape or form.
THAT is the crux of the problem. As I have said before, if had not made that asinine claim that Doncic's impact is barely above or about equal to that of bench player Delon Wright I would have never participated here in the first place. I do not even need stats to know that the statement is complete and utter nonsense, just by watching the game you already know, and the OP admitted of having seen no more than 2 games.

[Bob8]

Watch on YouTube

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