Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: It's B-ball Time !!!

[Bensational]

You just have to look at how many mouths we have to feed on offense to realise that we don't have a sustainable team right now.

This is a big problem with not having a real go-to offensive star. We have a lot of guys that can average 13-17 ppg on good teams, so everyone gets a bite of the usage, which stagnates some players' progress/confidence on that end. Also think it's why we've been primed for a consolidation trade for a while now.

True. But we also don't want to repeat the moves that sent Oladipo and Tobias out for not much only to see them thrive as scorers on other teams whilst the guys behind them weren't capable of providing more.

The upshot would be that if we traded for CJ (or DLo but I don't have as much faith in him) there would be security in knowing where our offense could come from, as opposed to looking at the likes of Jennings, Ilyasova and Ibaka to cover that need.

[j-ragg]

You just have to look at how many mouths we have to feed on offense to realise that we don't have a sustainable team right now.

This is a big problem with not having a real go-to offensive star. We have a lot of guys that can average 13-17 ppg on good teams, so everyone gets a bite of the usage, which stagnates some players' progress/confidence on that end. Also think it's why we've been primed for a consolidation trade for a while now.

True. But we also don't want to repeat the moves that sent Oladipo and Tobias out for not much only to see them thrive as scorers on other teams whilst the guys behind them weren't capable of providing more.

The upshot would be that if we traded for CJ (or DLo but I don't have as much faith in him) there would be security in knowing where our offense could come from, as opposed to looking at the likes of Jennings, Ilyasova and Ibaka to cover that need.

Hopefully this organization learned its lesson.

[Bensational]

Question - when can Chuma join the team? Obviously he has to heal first, but can he be called up from G-League this season? I never quite figured out where he ended up with all that contract stuff.

[yoyojw17]

I think AG, like a lot of "Really Good" players, will flourish on a team where he is clearly second-fiddle offensively. He just can't /won't accept that swiss-army-knife role here where he's arguably the best player. If he were on GSW, for example, he'd chase down misses, putback misses, cut for highlight-reel lobs, and lock down opposing scorers...The D12 parallels are so true, IMO...Dwight could've been Bill Russell but he wanted to be Wilt Chamberlain - and nobody in ORL had the juice to tell him/show him to stay in his lane. He's not demanding anything on an LBJ team, he learned he can lose a power struggle twice now with Kobe and Harden. In ORL he was far and away the franchise leader with indisputable power. AG is not there, of course, but his pecking order position is still up for grabs.

Win-Win, IMO is AG + picks, Bamba, Aminu, whatever package for a legit lead scorer like DLO, Beal, CJ. If those guys don't shake loose, straight up for a Zach Lavine or similar level, less complete but more developed offensively player. I really like AG but he's hitting his ceiling on this team- he needs a winning role on a different roster and he's not what ORL needs.

Was going to write the same thing about him. He is a player i want on this team... and i think we have yet to see the best of him. If they know where they are projecting our players growth i would love to see him stay here. But if they think he would not make the needed changes to give a 100% contribution.... then a trade would be welcomed. Straight up for CJ or DLO.... with extras for beal. Beal is superior to both of those players and plays both ends of the court at a high level.

[nymets1]

Who here plays fantasy basketball? I have 25 fantasy basketball teams and slept on that guy Luke Doncic and don't have him on any of my teams. I didn't see the production coming before the season started that's he produced during the season. I don't know where his ranking will be next year, but I might want to draft him in the 1st round. So far this year he's in the top 3.

[ezzzp]

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[ezzzp]

I'd prefer to get another guard with Bogdanovic.

And while I also do think Bogdanovic would be redundant with Evan, I think it would work wonders for this team having another playmaker. There's just too many team players on our team, and I think unloading one for a facilitator who is also a respectable shooter would really help the grand scheme of things.

Dedmon would be an upgrade over Khem and current Bamba. I probably should have said it, but my thoughts were that Birch would eventually be traded as well. Its actually possible to throw him (or Bamba) in this trade and it still works; but I thought this was the cleaner transaction.

I liked Dedmon because we can add steady offense (a vertical and floor spacer) to the second unit without sacrificing defense. He is compatible with most of our lineup combinations because of his 3-D ability.

I also liked that his contract can be a valuable trade piece next summer if Bamba is ready. Its scale is a good trade salary ballast + its essentially an expiring deal with a team option to keep it a year longer if they need him.

[ezzzp]

He played his part well last year. The only difference is his shooting has tanked this year, and all his shortcomings are magnified. At the same time, we also have to recognize that his full potential was never going to be realized here regardless based on the roster construction and playing him out of position. The team construction never did him any favors. The core problems of the team have never been solved during the past decade; the offense depends on Vucevic. When players like Gordon or Fournier try to create anything, we get up and arms about them not being good at it. In any other situation, where they aren't depended upon to be 2nd and 3rd options, it's not an issue.

AG's mid-range game was the most ineffective high volume shot in our offense last year. Not only did he constantly shoot that low value shot at a ridiculously bad level (<.340 FG%) but he would grind the offense to a screeching halt to get it. It was a major problem to the Magic's offense last season.

There was a reason that in the playoffs the Raptors just gave him that mid range game...he just made shots in a couple of those games that he had been missing at alarming levels all season long. Some people described that as him being the only Magic player who "showed up," but really it was just an anomaly in the full sample.

[jezzerinho]

He played his part well last year. The only difference is his shooting has tanked this year, and all his shortcomings are magnified. At the same time, we also have to recognize that his full potential was never going to be realized here regardless based on the roster construction and playing him out of position. The team construction never did him any favors. The core problems of the team have never been solved during the past decade; the offense depends on Vucevic. When players like Gordon or Fournier try to create anything, we get up and arms about them not being good at it. In any other situation, where they aren't depended upon to be 2nd and 3rd options, it's not an issue.

AG's mid-range game was the most ineffective high volume shot in our offense last year. Not only did he constantly shoot that low value shot at a ridiculously bad level (<.340 FG%) but he would grind the offense to a screeching halt to get it. It was a major problem to the Magic's offense last season.

There was a reason that in the playoffs the Raptors just gave him that mid range game...he just made shots in a couple of those games that he had been missing at alarming levels all season long. Some people described that as him being the only Magic player who "showed up," but really it was just an anomaly in the full sample.

If you want to call a 24yo guy playing well in the Magic's 1st playoffs in years an "anomaly", fine. But be prepared to apply that to anyone who has a good or bad game/s.

To me, AG is basically a metaphor for the Magic in general. Young, long, athletic, inconsistent and difficult to grasp exactly who he is as a player.

[ezzzp]

He played his part well last year. The only difference is his shooting has tanked this year, and all his shortcomings are magnified. At the same time, we also have to recognize that his full potential was never going to be realized here regardless based on the roster construction and playing him out of position. The team construction never did him any favors. The core problems of the team have never been solved during the past decade; the offense depends on Vucevic. When players like Gordon or Fournier try to create anything, we get up and arms about them not being good at it. In any other situation, where they aren't depended upon to be 2nd and 3rd options, it's not an issue.

AG's mid-range game was the most ineffective high volume shot in our offense last year. Not only did he constantly shoot that low value shot at a ridiculously bad level (<.340 FG%) but he would grind the offense to a screeching halt to get it. It was a major problem to the Magic's offense last season.

There was a reason that in the playoffs the Raptors just gave him that mid range game...he just made shots in a couple of those games that he had been missing at alarming levels all season long. Some people described that as him being the only Magic player who "showed up," but really it was just an anomaly in the full sample.

If you want to call a 24yo guy playing well in the Magic's 1st playoffs in years an "anomaly", fine. But be prepared to apply that to anyone who has a good or bad game/s.

To me, AG is basically a metaphor for the Magic in general. Young, long, athletic, inconsistent and difficult to grasp exactly who he is as a player.

If you want to interpret the full sample of statistical evidence of AG's midrange game as "a fluke"...and the shots he made in the playoffs as "the norm," fine.

I am not prepared to interpret them as that, because I believe in a more rational interpretation of those numbers.

AG is what he is, a solid young player that is striving to play a bigger offensive role than what his skill set allows him to do. Nothing wrong with that, but its a team sport and the coach and FO need to manage that ambition carefully. They don't want to hurt that appetite for improvement, but at the same time they don't want to hurt the development of the other players or the team by prioritizing his ambition over everyone else's.

Can AG ever develop the skills that allow him to meet his ambitions? To me that picture is starting to clarify. He's 24, BUT he has been given the volume and freedom to develop and prove it for the past 3 seasons. We are now in the 4th year of AG as an on-ball player experiment and its not looking so hot.

This isn't the Oladipo situation, as VO's role as an on-ball player was never in question. What was unknown was if he could ever be a contender level ball dominant player. With Gordon, its year 6 and he has yet to prove he can even play the role of an on-ball player at a basic level.

At a certain point a decision has to be made to scale him back, and if he refuses to do it (which its seeming like possibly what is going on) then the FO has to make a tougher decision - which is to trade a player that they don't want to trade because he won't reconcile with his abilities.

[ezzzp]

15 games in:

[OrlandoNed]

Speaking of offense, I found an interesting excerpt in the article below about how the Wizards built the current 2nd best offense in the league.

It’s not hard—or expensive—to score competently. Some franchises just make it seem that way.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/11/25/20981578/washington-wizards-bradley-beal-second-best-offense

[Xatticus]

Speaking of offense, I found an interesting excerpt in the article below about how the Wizards built the current 2nd best offense in the league.

It’s not hard—or expensive—to score competently. Some franchises just make it seem that way.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/11/25/20981578/washington-wizards-bradley-beal-second-best-offense

I watched them last night. They are fun to watch. Wagner's a nice-looking young player. The guy works his ass off against bigger and more gifted centers. He is a ball mover. Their whole offense whips the ball around really. It all starts with Beal, but once the defense is compromised, they swing the ball around the floor until it ends up in a good shot.

[OrlandoNed]

Speaking of offense, I found an interesting excerpt in the article below about how the Wizards built the current 2nd best offense in the league.

It’s not hard—or expensive—to score competently. Some franchises just make it seem that way.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/11/25/20981578/washington-wizards-bradley-beal-second-best-offense

I watched them last night. They are fun to watch. Wagner's a nice-looking young player. The guy works his ass off against bigger and more gifted centers. He is a ball mover. Their whole offense whips the ball around really. It all starts with Beal, but once the defense is compromised, they swing the ball around the floor until it ends up in a good shot.

Its ironic that this is all being schemed by the same coach who couldn't structure an effective offense around Westbrook, Harden and Durant, who just scored through overwhelming individual talent, but now with a single perimeter All-Star and a bunch of castoffs and salary dumps he's running an offensive machine.

Sad state of affairs when we are on the opposite end of that spectrum with a bottom 25 offense with the amount of money we've invested into a team of veterans and high draft picks.

[Def Swami]

Highlight of the season for me so far has been the Isaac leap. Magic draft picks over the last 7 years have left me fairly underwhelmed during their duration with our team, but Isaac is finally showing something that the team can invest in over the next several years - an elite defender that the team can build around. Maybe his offensive game becomes more consistent, but at the very least, he's lived up to his potential as an elite role player that could start on any playoff caliber team. Finding enough complimentary scoring should still be on the front office's agenda.

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[pepe1991]

As it is right now, Magic are 29th offense and 11th defense .
Still least effective team in nba.

Now Knicks just closed up the gap.

[zaymon]

As it is right now, Magic are 29th offense and 11th defense .
Still least effective team in nba.

Now Knicks just closed up the gap.

Is it suprising though pepe ? New point guard starting fresh after 2 years, still not 100% rehabbed. Veterans injured during training camp. Isaac still growing into his body. Gordon still doesnt know who he wants to be in the nba and FO drafted and signed two players at his position. Bamba doing Bamba things. Vucevic not in the rhytm after fiba. Aminu adjusting to his new role.
I would be suprised if we didnt struggle offensively. Just enjoy watching Isaac and Fultz as our young core this year and next year we will be more about business. ( and wait for AG to be traded becouse we are at the same page regarding him)

[MartinsIzAfraud]

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Uhoh

[basketballRob]

Isaac becoming Anthony Davis lite. Davis gets nearly double the usage and plays more minutes, but other than scoring Isaac's numbers are close to his.

To be honest many other teams and coaches would just build around him and look for ways to put him in position to score more.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[dsg2021]

Is it just me? I would absolutely tender my resignation if I was working in a FO and didn't recommend Doncic at practically any cost. I don't know. A part of my imagination wants to pretend I'm a team owner to tell league execs they're fired whenever they miss out on a top 5-10 player in the league. As a fan, I'm culpable of putting my heads in the clouds and secretly wanting a draft trade-up for guard or wing X every year, but that Doncic draft was particularly glaring than every other year. And it's a shame a fanbase who saw prime Hedo and was ready to answer all of Doncic's "weaknesses" as something grossly overstated had a new FO who didn't see prime Hedo like us true Magic fans.

There's some serious issues with firing a FO for missing out on a star though, like churning the FO something like once every 4 years, scaring execs away, and starting in a hole asset-wise with a new FO that might make it unviable.
But I think there's hungry "non-veteran" execs to be found.
I think the cost of risky trades is not so bad because we'll be tanking with good assets anyways.
And I think we all would rather have a top 5-10 player over a bunch of solid hits that an experienced B+ FO gets with veteran execs and longterm visions.

We're clearly stuck in the mud in an era as fans who don't appreciate solid hits much anymore. The things I saw from Isaac day 1 took most of the RealGM fanbase three years to see. Good God the number of people who wanted Isaac for DSJr a few months ago. Same with AG's two-way, multi-faceted impact in every game that he doesn't go 4-15. Vooch is clearly a golden piece to keep around too, but most of the base here dislikes him. In the end though, I get why a big part of the fanbase, namely the RealGM one, whose collective last exciting non-centers, read: next up JI, and "offense-before-defense-stars" were Tmac and Penny from decades ago is genuinely ready to tank and hunt for a star. Maybe these two losses has me agreeing with them temporarily.

But right now, there's never going to be any reset button that makes losing any of Isaac, AG, and Vooch worth it. And Chuma and Fultz are probably on that list too.