How Good Would Scottie Pippen be in 2019?

[ATRAIN53]

Pip would be awesome in any era as long as he played D like MJ taught him.

Are we paying attention to Scottie Pippen Jr yet?

Read on Twitter

you know this is killing MJ since both his kids flamed out at basketball.

It looks like the 12/18 game VS Loyola is on CBS TV.
Scottie will likely be court side, has been posting to twitter from games.

[LipSkinMatter]

If I put you in a time machine and you try to argue that Pippen is more valuable than Jordan in the 2nd three peat you will be the biggest joke of the 90s.

Pippen was in his peak years during 96-98 and Jordan was on the back end of his prime, its not that hard to believe. It wasn't like 2000 Lakers when Kobe was clear sidekick or 2013 LeBron with Wade as his sidekick. Jordan/Pippen in the 2nd 3peat were more like Curry/Durant: 2/3 best players in the league on one team. Pippen was the best wing player for the entire 90s not named Jordan.

From 96-98, pippen was the better defender, rebounder, playmaker over Jordan and they had similar TS in multiple years during reg season or playoffs. So when it came down to it, all Jordan really had over Pippen was scoring volume during the 2nd 3peat. Is that a knock on Jordan? Absolutely not, Pippen was just THAT good. They are the greatest duo in NBA history for a reason.

Jordan the MVP in 1998 I don't even know how to respond to this. This is like arguing Middelton is just as important as Giannis level blasphemy. It was a clear pecking order, with Jordan at the very top followed by Pippen. In no way, shape or form could you make an argument that HE WAS MORE VALUABLE OR EVEN JUST AS VALUABLE as Jordan. This is what looking at stats in a vacuum without watching the games actually leads to.

The difference between Jordan and Pippen is nowhere near the gap between Giannis and Khris Middleton FFS ...

[LKN]

Pippen was in his peak years during 96-98 and Jordan was on the back end of his prime, its not that hard to believe. It wasn't like 2000 Lakers when Kobe was clear sidekick or 2013 LeBron with Wade as his sidekick. Jordan/Pippen in the 2nd 3peat were more like Curry/Durant: 2/3 best players in the league on one team. Pippen was the best wing player for the entire 90s not named Jordan.

From 96-98, pippen was the better defender, rebounder, playmaker over Jordan and they had similar TS in multiple years during reg season or playoffs. So when it came down to it, all Jordan really had over Pippen was scoring volume during the 2nd 3peat. Is that a knock on Jordan? Absolutely not, Pippen was just THAT good. They are the greatest duo in NBA history for a reason.

Jordan the MVP in 1998 I don't even know how to respond to this. This is like arguing Middelton is just as important as Giannis level blasphemy. It was a clear pecking order, with Jordan at the very top followed by Pippen. In no way, shape or form could you make an argument that HE WAS MORE VALUABLE OR EVEN JUST AS VALUABLE as Jordan. This is what looking at stats in a vacuum without watching the games actually leads to.

The difference between Jordan and Pippen is nowhere near the gap between Giannis and Khris Middleton FFS ...

Offensively it probably is, but yeah if you include defense it definitely isn't. Pippen and MJ are fairly comparable defensively (which one is better depends on the year).. .but Giannis and Middleton are not... not even close.

[LipSkinMatter]

Jordan the MVP in 1998 I don't even know how to respond to this. This is like arguing Middelton is just as important as Giannis level blasphemy. It was a clear pecking order, with Jordan at the very top followed by Pippen. In no way, shape or form could you make an argument that HE WAS MORE VALUABLE OR EVEN JUST AS VALUABLE as Jordan. This is what looking at stats in a vacuum without watching the games actually leads to.

The difference between Jordan and Pippen is nowhere near the gap between Giannis and Khris Middleton FFS ...

Offensively it probably is, but yeah if you include defense it definitely isn't. Pippen and MJ are fairly comparable defensively (which one is better depends on the year).. .but Giannis and Middleton are not... not even close.

Not sure if you're unaware how mediocre Middleton is on offense or if you're disrespecting Pippen ...

[HBK_Kliq_33]

Jordan the MVP in 1998 I don't even know how to respond to this. This is like arguing Middelton is just as important as Giannis level blasphemy. It was a clear pecking order, with Jordan at the very top followed by Pippen. In no way, shape or form could you make an argument that HE WAS MORE VALUABLE OR EVEN JUST AS VALUABLE as Jordan. This is what looking at stats in a vacuum without watching the games actually leads to.

The difference between Jordan and Pippen is nowhere near the gap between Giannis and Khris Middleton FFS ...

Offensively it probably is, but yeah if you include defense it definitely isn't. Pippen and MJ are fairly comparable defensively (which one is better depends on the year).. .but Giannis and Middleton are not... not even close.

In the 2nd 3peat pippen was better than jordan at everything besides scoring volume. They were 2/3 best players in the league playing on the same team like Durant/Curry were. Giannis is a superstar with an average sidekick, similar to 06/07 Dirk. I don't think its a comparable situation.

[Leslie Forman]

In the 2nd 3peat pippen was better than jordan at everything besides scoring volume.

The only thing James Harden is better at than Ben Simmons is "scoring volume."

They were 2/3 best players in the league playing on the same team like Durant/Curry were.

You keep bringing this up. You are wrong. You very, very clearly never actually watched them actually play or followed the NBA back then because literally NOBODY thought of them as equals like that.

[Danny1616]

Just from a physical perspective, he essentially had the same dimensions as Kwahi, in terms of height and wing span, but he was the better athlete, quicker and more explosive. Additionally, he was ahead of his time as far as play making forward goes, but multi-dimensional, and a 2 way player. You implant someone like him into the modern era, with his basketball IQ, and work ethic, I think you have arguably a top 3 player in this league without even batting an eye.

Kawhi has bigger hands and is a much, much better 3 point shooter and mid-range shooter. Kawhi's post-game is elite and up there with the greats, Pippen didn't have that.

Nothing to take away from Pippen, but he's not on Kawhi's level.

[Petergrifindor]

In the 2nd 3peat pippen was better than jordan at everything besides scoring volume. They were 2/3 best players in the league playing on the same team like Durant/Curry were..

[NirvanaFC]

He could be just as good or better than Leonard.

A lazy comparison that made sense in the early part of Kawhi's career when he seemed like he might evolve into a Pippen type player. Kawhi's scoring, especially his Jordan-esque pull-up game is exactly what Pippen didn't have. Pippen was a much more eager passer. Their demanors are also opposite. Kawhi is zen/calm/focused, Pippen was a hyper/high-motor chaos creator. They both have crazy long arms and have great wing size, but the comparisons stop there

Less scoring, more playmaking version of Siakam?

Last year I started thinking about how Pippen like Siakam was. Siakam is a little bit more aggressive as a scorer this year than Scottie ever was, but I think that has a lot to do with the difference in shooting/spacing of eras. Scottie was a more skilled passer and more natural ball handler but Siakam seems just as effective. They are both at their core super high motor, disruptive players who like to push the ball. They both have great versatility. Siakam post Kawhi feels so much like Pippen post Jordan (first retirment). Siakam isn't playing that Pippen level intense defense though right now. Siakam obviously tilts more heavily towards the frontcourt positions but both of them do a lot of the same things on the court.

Scottie was 6'8 with a reported 7'4 wingspan. Today he'd be a big elite wing on all-nba teams. He'd be battling with Lebron, Kawhi, George and Durant. He'd be a better pass than all of them except Lebron. He'd be the best defender and worst scorer of the bunch. He really is skinny Lebron in that he's a transition monster who likes to pass but is also a monster athlete.

Anyone who doesn't think Scottie would be an elite player in any era, I'm sorry to hear about your low knowledge of the game.

In 4 years, Siakam has gone from New Mexico State to late first-round pick to G-League Finals MVP to bench rotation player to All-Star to being compared with an all-time great. This is insane progression.

[therealbig3]

Pippen would play a lot of PF in today’s league and would still be a defensive menace, especially with the emphasis on switching and court coverage now compared to before, and the increased pace would suit him perfectly...but he would seriously need to improve as an overall shooter if he wanted to be an effective offensive player.

[Picasso]

Pip would be awesome in any era as long as he played D like MJ taught him.

Are we paying attention to Scottie Pippen Jr yet?

Read on Twitter

you know this is killing MJ since both his kids flamed out at basketball.

It looks like the 12/18 game VS Loyola is on CBS TV.
Scottie will likely be court side, has been posting to twitter from games.

Nice

[kulaz3000]

Just from a physical perspective, he essentially had the same dimensions as Kwahi, in terms of height and wing span, but he was the better athlete, quicker and more explosive. Additionally, he was ahead of his time as far as play making forward goes, but multi-dimensional, and a 2 way player. You implant someone like him into the modern era, with his basketball IQ, and work ethic, I think you have arguably a top 3 player in this league without even batting an eye.

Kawhi has bigger hands and is a much, much better 3 point shooter and mid-range shooter. Kawhi's post-game is elite and up there with the greats, Pippen didn't have that.

Nothing to take away from Pippen, but he's not on Kawhi's level.

This is the trouble with these hypothetical scenerios. Are you just implanting the player as a raw player, who develops and grows in this era? Or are you transplanting him with his exact game from era, with the same set of rules, training methods to the style of play back then etc? Then of course the majority of players, even lesser talented players in the current era would have the advantage.

[Danny1616]

Just from a physical perspective, he essentially had the same dimensions as Kwahi, in terms of height and wing span, but he was the better athlete, quicker and more explosive. Additionally, he was ahead of his time as far as play making forward goes, but multi-dimensional, and a 2 way player. You implant someone like him into the modern era, with his basketball IQ, and work ethic, I think you have arguably a top 3 player in this league without even batting an eye.

Kawhi has bigger hands and is a much, much better 3 point shooter and mid-range shooter. Kawhi's post-game is elite and up there with the greats, Pippen didn't have that.

Nothing to take away from Pippen, but he's not on Kawhi's level.

This is the trouble with these hypothetical scenerios. Are you just implanting the player as a raw player, who develops and grows in this era? Or are you transplanting him with his exact game from era, with the same set of rules, training methods to the style of play back then etc? Then of course the majority of players, even lesser talented players in the current era would have the advantage.

What was stopping Pippen from developing an elite post-up and mid-range game? Many other elite players in the 1990s had a great mid-range game. It just wasn't his thing.

Not every player can become elite in certain areas. Draymond Green is a great defender and high IQ player, but he just isn't going to be a lethal shooter and fundamentally sound post-up player.

Lebron is never going to be a lethal outside shooter even though sometimes he can get streaky.

Some players have certain strengths, and may not be able to do what other players do. Kawhi's ability to post-up players, his foot-work, his array of fundamental moves, rivals players like Kobe and Jordan.

[durden-tyler]

He would be like Paul George with better playmaking skills ?

[kulaz3000]

Kawhi has bigger hands and is a much, much better 3 point shooter and mid-range shooter. Kawhi's post-game is elite and up there with the greats, Pippen didn't have that.

Nothing to take away from Pippen, but he's not on Kawhi's level.

This is the trouble with these hypothetical scenerios. Are you just implanting the player as a raw player, who develops and grows in this era? Or are you transplanting him with his exact game from era, with the same set of rules, training methods to the style of play back then etc? Then of course the majority of players, even lesser talented players in the current era would have the advantage.

What was stopping Pippen from developing an elite post-up and mid-range game? Many other elite players in the 1990s had a great mid-range game. It just wasn't his thing.

Not every player can become elite in certain areas. Draymond Green is a great defender and high IQ player, but he just isn't going to be a lethal shooter and fundamentally sound post-up player.

Lebron is never going to be a lethal outside shooter even though sometimes he can get streaky.

Some players have certain strengths, and may not be able to do what other players do. Kawhi's ability to post-up players, his foot-work, his array of fundamental moves, rivals players like Kobe and Jordan.

Sure, I'll give you that Kawhi was the better offensive player, can't argue that. But Pippen was the more versatile player, not only on the defensive end, but his ball handling and play making allowed him to play point forward, something Kawhi can't do, at least for long stretches.

[IG2]

He wouldn't be better than

Giannis
Harden
LeBron
Kawhi
KD
Curry

He'd fall somewhere in the top 7-12 range with the likes of AD, Siakam, Doncic, PG13 and Lillard.

[Danny1616]

This is the trouble with these hypothetical scenerios. Are you just implanting the player as a raw player, who develops and grows in this era? Or are you transplanting him with his exact game from era, with the same set of rules, training methods to the style of play back then etc? Then of course the majority of players, even lesser talented players in the current era would have the advantage.

What was stopping Pippen from developing an elite post-up and mid-range game? Many other elite players in the 1990s had a great mid-range game. It just wasn't his thing.

Not every player can become elite in certain areas. Draymond Green is a great defender and high IQ player, but he just isn't going to be a lethal shooter and fundamentally sound post-up player.

Lebron is never going to be a lethal outside shooter even though sometimes he can get streaky.

Some players have certain strengths, and may not be able to do what other players do. Kawhi's ability to post-up players, his foot-work, his array of fundamental moves, rivals players like Kobe and Jordan.

Sure, I'll give you that Kawhi was the better offensive player, can't argue that. But Pippen was the more versatile player, not only on the defensive end, but his ball handling and play making allowed him to play point forward, something Kawhi can't do, at least for long stretches.

Yeah Pippen was a very versatile player and elite defender, but I wouldn't consider him an elite "scorer." I'm not convinced that if Pippen started in this era he would have been able to become an elite scorer on the level of a Kawhi or a Durant or a Harden etc. That doesn't mean he wouldn't be a top 10 player.

Pippen is more a jack of all trades type guy. He'll give you 18-19ppg, 8-9rpg, 6-7apg, a couple steals and a block. He's the perfect 2nd piece on a championship team, but I really don't believe Pippen is a legitimate #1 option that could carry a team as the #1 scoring option.

[LKN]

The difference between Jordan and Pippen is nowhere near the gap between Giannis and Khris Middleton FFS ...

Offensively it probably is, but yeah if you include defense it definitely isn't. Pippen and MJ are fairly comparable defensively (which one is better depends on the year).. .but Giannis and Middleton are not... not even close.

In the 2nd 3peat pippen was better than jordan at everything besides scoring volume. They were 2/3 best players in the league playing on the same team like Durant/Curry were. Giannis is a superstar with an average sidekick, similar to 06/07 Dirk. I don't think its a comparable situation.

This isn't remotely close to true no matter how many times you spam it. Pippen's BPM and VORP numbers do not mean he was better than MJ, as valuable as MJ, etc.

Do you even understand how BPM, OBPM and DBPM are calculated?

Here's a starter for you:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/bpm.html

Scroll down to the bottom and read the section on evaluating box plus/minus. Then go take a look at MJ and Pippen's OBPM and BPM numbers and remember which one of those is a much better indicator.


MJ was just better at everything when it comes to offense - even during the 2nd threepeat.

In the postseason - More points on better efficiency, similar AST% with much lower TOV% and higher USG%.... and MJ wasn't able to get assists by passing to the best scorer in NBA history.

[LKN]

What was stopping Pippen from developing an elite post-up and mid-range game? Many other elite players in the 1990s had a great mid-range game. It just wasn't his thing.

Not every player can become elite in certain areas. Draymond Green is a great defender and high IQ player, but he just isn't going to be a lethal shooter and fundamentally sound post-up player.

Lebron is never going to be a lethal outside shooter even though sometimes he can get streaky.

Some players have certain strengths, and may not be able to do what other players do. Kawhi's ability to post-up players, his foot-work, his array of fundamental moves, rivals players like Kobe and Jordan.

Sure, I'll give you that Kawhi was the better offensive player, can't argue that. But Pippen was the more versatile player, not only on the defensive end, but his ball handling and play making allowed him to play point forward, something Kawhi can't do, at least for long stretches.

Yeah Pippen was a very versatile player and elite defender, but I wouldn't consider him an elite "scorer." I'm not convinced that if Pippen started in this era he would have been able to become an elite scorer on the level of a Kawhi or a Durant or a Harden etc. That doesn't mean he wouldn't be a top 10 player.

Pippen is more a jack of all trades type guy. He'll give you 18-19ppg, 8-9rpg, 6-7apg, a couple steals and a block. He's the perfect 2nd piece on a championship team, but I really don't believe Pippen is a legitimate #1 option that could carry a team as the #1 scoring option.

Pippen is the kind of guy who is more valuable as a #2 than a #1

KG is kind of like a super version of Pippen... he's an ATG, but not ideally suited to be a #1 scorer/option on offense (Bill Russell is another guy like that).

[SichtingLives]

No reason to believe he'd be any better or worse than original Scottie Pippen