MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] - voting reopened

[nzahir]

How about compare the rest of the team?
For regular season, depth is very important

Middleton, Bledsoe, Hill, Pat C, Wes Matthews, Korver, Brook Lopez, Robin Lopez, Illyasova, sterling brown, and DJ Wilson

Vs

AD, Green, Kcp, Kuzma, Avery, McGee, Dwight, Rondo, Cook, Caruso, Dudley, and Troy Daniels

So AD is the best of those guys. Then Middleton and Bledsoe. And then some are up for debate, but clearly favoring MIL. But most bucks players are longer and better shooters. Also making them better fits

Middleton missed 8 games and the bucks didn’t miss a beat, you know why? Because of Giannis. Let AD miss 8 games lakers are going on a losing streak. The lakers second best player>>>>>>Middleton and Bledsoe. I mean Giannis legit needed to drop 50 just to beat the jazz at home with no Gobert but keep telling me about how the bucks are just this deep team

The bucks are a deep team. Sounds like some blind stanhood creeping into your posts.

You do realize that AD is a net negative when Lebron is off the court right?

In that 8 game span you played some of those injured teams as well.

Your team is also very deep and can sustain an injury like that in the regular season vs those weaker east teams.

Giannis usage is also incredibly high.

You want to look at it as most VALUABLE player. Lebron has a higher net rating rn and besides AD and maybe Green, who are we really relying on here rn?

Or you want to talk about better player? Because there is no way I'm taking Giannis over Lebron when it counts in the finals as of rn.

[Colbinii]

Giannis dominates the ball too no?

Also they are close because the media votes for this award not you and a lot of the media are talking about the lakers and saying lebron is mvp. That’s not blind Stanhood it’s reality.

And the media should be called out on it. Lebron winning it over Giannis this year is like Rose winning in 2011

Not a chance.

Rose wasn't a top-5 player and was the weakest MVP candidate in 40 years.

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[Vsauce12]

Middleton missed 8 games and the bucks didn’t miss a beat, you know why? Because of Giannis. Let AD miss 8 games lakers are going on a losing streak. The lakers second best player>>>>>>Middleton and Bledsoe. I mean Giannis legit needed to drop 50 just to beat the jazz at home with no Gobert but keep telling me about how the bucks are just this deep team

The bucks are a deep team. Sounds like some blind stanhood creeping into your posts.

You do realize that AD is a net negative when Lebron is off the court right?

In that 8 game span you played some of those injured teams as well.

Your team is also very deep and can sustain an injury like that in the regular season vs those weaker east teams.

Giannis usage is also incredibly high.

You want to look at it as most VALUABLE player. Lebron has a higher net rating rn and besides AD and maybe Green, who are we really relying on here rn?

Or you want to talk about better player? Because there is no way I'm taking Giannis over Lebron when it counts in the finals as of rn.

Usage is a **** stat, if you want to see how much a player dominates the ball you use time of possession.

Giannis isn’t even in the top 20 in time of possession. He averages 5 minutes

Lebron is 6th at 7.7 minutes a game

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1

And I keep hearing about how deep the bucks are but yet somehow they can’t do **** without Giannis.

[nzahir]

The bucks are a deep team. Sounds like some blind stanhood creeping into your posts.

You do realize that AD is a net negative when Lebron is off the court right?

In that 8 game span you played some of those injured teams as well.

Your team is also very deep and can sustain an injury like that in the regular season vs those weaker east teams.

Giannis usage is also incredibly high.

You want to look at it as most VALUABLE player. Lebron has a higher net rating rn and besides AD and maybe Green, who are we really relying on here rn?

Or you want to talk about better player? Because there is no way I'm taking Giannis over Lebron when it counts in the finals as of rn.

Usage is a **** stat, if you want to see how much a player dominates the ball you use time of possession.

Giannis isn’t even in the top 20 in time of possession. He averages 5 minutes

Lebron is 6th at 7.7 minutes a game

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1

And I keep hearing about how deep the bucks are but yet somehow they can’t do **** without Giannis.

I keep hearing how AD is a top 5 player yet the lakers net raring with him and no Lebron is NEGATIVE

Giannis' net rating off the court is still positive 1.5 somehow. O wait its all the DAMN DEPTH.

[Vsauce12]

You do realize that AD is a net negative when Lebron is off the court right?

In that 8 game span you played some of those injured teams as well.

Your team is also very deep and can sustain an injury like that in the regular season vs those weaker east teams.

Giannis usage is also incredibly high.

You want to look at it as most VALUABLE player. Lebron has a higher net rating rn and besides AD and maybe Green, who are we really relying on here rn?

Or you want to talk about better player? Because there is no way I'm taking Giannis over Lebron when it counts in the finals as of rn.

Usage is a **** stat, if you want to see how much a player dominates the ball you use time of possession.

Giannis isn’t even in the top 20 in time of possession. He averages 5 minutes

Lebron is 6th at 7.7 minutes a game

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1

And I keep hearing about how deep the bucks are but yet somehow they can’t do **** without Giannis.

I keep hearing how AD is a top 5 player yet the lakers net raring with him and no Lebron is NEGATIVE

Giannis' net rating off the court is still positive 1.5 somehow. O wait its all the DAMN DEPTH.

First of all, I’ve never uttered the words “AD top 5 player”

And with all that net rating bs, Giannis still leads lebron in every single advanced stat and pure numbers.

MVP MVP MVP

[Dupp]

Usage is a **** stat, if you want to see how much a player dominates the ball you use time of possession.

Giannis isn’t even in the top 20 in time of possession. He averages 5 minutes

Lebron is 6th at 7.7 minutes a game

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1

And I keep hearing about how deep the bucks are but yet somehow they can’t do **** without Giannis.

I keep hearing how AD is a top 5 player yet the lakers net raring with him and no Lebron is NEGATIVE

Giannis' net rating off the court is still positive 1.5 somehow. O wait its all the DAMN DEPTH.

First of all, I’ve never uttered the words “AD top 5 player”

And with all that net rating bs, Giannis still leads lebron in every single advanced stat and pure numbers.

MVP MVP MVP

“ every advanced stat” aka every box score driven stat.


But yes giannis is the current mvp and playing at a higher level than lebron. Playing better isn’t all there is to mvp voting though.

[Dupp]

Anyway where does jokic factor in here? Nuggets quietly have a great record too and he’s clearly their best player.

You do realize that AD is a net negative when Lebron is off the court right?

In that 8 game span you played some of those injured teams as well.

Your team is also very deep and can sustain an injury like that in the regular season vs those weaker east teams.

Giannis usage is also incredibly high.

You want to look at it as most VALUABLE player. Lebron has a higher net rating rn and besides AD and maybe Green, who are we really relying on here rn?

Or you want to talk about better player? Because there is no way I'm taking Giannis over Lebron when it counts in the finals as of rn.

Usage is a **** stat, if you want to see how much a player dominates the ball you use time of possession.

Giannis isn’t even in the top 20 in time of possession. He averages 5 minutes

Lebron is 6th at 7.7 minutes a game

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1

And I keep hearing about how deep the bucks are but yet somehow they can’t do **** without Giannis.

I keep hearing how AD is a top 5 player yet the lakers net raring with him and no Lebron is NEGATIVE

Giannis' net rating off the court is still positive 1.5 somehow. O wait its all the DAMN DEPTH.

To be fair Davis is absolutely a positive player and probably top 7 at worst. His negative rating without lebron probably has a lot to do with who he’s on the court with and more to the point who the point guard is in those minutes.


Davis will take votes off lebron I have no doubt in that. But having Davis does not eliminate lebron from the race.

[Jamaaliver]

Read on Twitter

[nzahir]

Anyway where does jokic factor in here? Nuggets quietly have a great record too and he’s clearly their best player.

Usage is a **** stat, if you want to see how much a player dominates the ball you use time of possession.

Giannis isn’t even in the top 20 in time of possession. He averages 5 minutes

Lebron is 6th at 7.7 minutes a game

https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1

And I keep hearing about how deep the bucks are but yet somehow they can’t do **** without Giannis.

I keep hearing how AD is a top 5 player yet the lakers net raring with him and no Lebron is NEGATIVE

Giannis' net rating off the court is still positive 1.5 somehow. O wait its all the DAMN DEPTH.

To be fair Davis is absolutely a positive player and probably top 7 at worst. His negative rating without lebron probably has a lot to do with who he’s on the court with and more to the point who the point guard is in those minutes.


Davis will take votes off lebron I have no doubt in that. But having Davis does not eliminate lebron from the race.

Hes not even in the convo rn. Why bring up Jokic even?

16, 10, and 6. Shooting numbers down from last year. Not playing defense like Giannis or even Lebron

Its Giannis and Bron at the top

Then Harden and Luka

[Dupp]

Anyway where does jokic factor in here? Nuggets quietly have a great record too and he’s clearly their best player.

I keep hearing how AD is a top 5 player yet the lakers net raring with him and no Lebron is NEGATIVE

Giannis' net rating off the court is still positive 1.5 somehow. O wait its all the DAMN DEPTH.

To be fair Davis is absolutely a positive player and probably top 7 at worst. His negative rating without lebron probably has a lot to do with who he’s on the court with and more to the point who the point guard is in those minutes.


Davis will take votes off lebron I have no doubt in that. But having Davis does not eliminate lebron from the race.

Hes not even in the convo rn. Why bring up Jokic even?

16, 10, and 6. Shooting numbers down from last year. Not playing defense like Giannis or even Lebron

Its Giannis and Bron at the top

Then Harden and Luka

Yeah but not all the convo has to be about top 1 or 1-4. Just curious where people would rank jokic.

[Dupp]

Read on Twitter

Is there a top 5 tweet of that?

[mademan]

Giannis dominates the ball too no?

Also they are close because the media votes for this award not you and a lot of the media are talking about the lakers and saying lebron is mvp. That’s not blind Stanhood it’s reality.

And the media should be called out on it. Lebron winning it over Giannis this year is like Rose winning in 2011

Not a chance.

Rose wasn't a top-5 player and was the weakest MVP candidate in 40 years.

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premise is the same. Lebron would be stealing the award from someone who's producing worlds better than him based on 1 undefinable metric (narrative)

[Jamaaliver]

Is there a top 5 tweet of that?

Whoops...here it goes.

Read on Twitter

[GeorgeMarcus]

Lebron and Davis playing together isn't really an argument for Giannis here. Both are overall superior players to Giannis, with less exploitable weaknesses come playoff time. If Giannis had AD on his team, he'd not be the best player on hsi team so the whole argument is a non-starter.

Giannis is comfortably better than AD, and probably better than LeBron too.

I have a feeling that post will age terribly come May 2020. AD is better on both ends, it's he who's comfortably better; Lebron is massively better on offense.

AD comfortably better than Giannis? How can you even justify that?

LeBron is better on offense but Giannis more than makes up the gap defensively.

[Colbinii]

And the media should be called out on it. Lebron winning it over Giannis this year is like Rose winning in 2011

Not a chance.

Rose wasn't a top-5 player and was the weakest MVP candidate in 40 years.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

premise is the same. Lebron would be stealing the award from someone who's producing worlds better than him based on 1 undefinable metric (narrative)

Narrative and Impact

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[clyde21]

LeBron has another top 5 player with him hes DQd tbh

[Joey Wheeler]

Giannis is comfortably better than AD, and probably better than LeBron too.

I have a feeling that post will age terribly come May 2020. AD is better on both ends, it's he who's comfortably better; Lebron is massively better on offense.

AD comfortably better than Giannis? How can you even justify that?

LeBron is better on offense but Giannis more than makes up the gap defensively.

Very easily. On defense: he's a superior rim protector and shot blocker, better pick and roll defender, better wing defender. Don't think there's a single argument you can make for Giannis on this end tbh, he's elite but AD is historically game-changing, in the current league only Embiid is in the same ballpark. Now that he doesn't have to carry the offense, AD probably has DPOY on lock for a few years.

On offense, Giannis is clearly better as the primary ballhandler, but that's not exactly optimal team offense since he's no James Harden or Steph Curry, let alone Lebron James. He's clearly a better primary ballhandler than AD but having Giannis as your de facto point guard isn't exactly a recipe for elite playoff offense as his vision and passing aren't elite and he's a poor shooter. AD is a more versatile scorer; Giannis is one of GOAT interior scorers but his scoring arsenal is really limited outside the paint area, while AD is an elite interior scorer himself and a considerably superior scorer from every other area of the floor and crucially from the free throw line. Most importantly, Giannis has no off ball game to speak of while AD is arguably the GOAT off the ball offensive big; this is very important because ideally you don't want either Giannis or AD as your best offensive player as there's a cap to how good your offense will be, so how they mesh with great offensive guards and wings is a very important consideration.

Giannis is a better 1st offensive option, even if only if he's surrounded by shooters everywhere, but overall given the current league environment I'll take AD's more versatile and portable offensive game for sure. So far, my preference has been fully backed by the playoff resilience their games exhibited, with Davis dominating offensively vs the dynasty and elite playoff defense Warriors and Giannis seriously struggling offensively for a big chunk of his short playoff career.

As for Lebron, saying "Lebron is better on offense" is underselling the gap, which is very, very considerable.

[AussieBuck]

Wonder what Giannis would look like if he had another top 5 player next to him.

Would be amazing if that player was a perimeter guy who could shoot, pass and get to the bucket. Closest we have is George Hill.

[AussieBuck]

Giannis dominates the ball too no?

Also they are close because the media votes for this award not you and a lot of the media are talking about the lakers and saying lebron is mvp. That’s not blind Stanhood it’s reality.

Dominated the **** out of the ball with Middleton out. Was probably in that 40USG% Harden range. Was very fun to watch and we won all 7-8 of those games. Less so with the whole team playing, still finishes heaps of plays but he spends a bunch more time off ball than non-Bucks fans tend to think.

[jokeboy86]

Giannis dominates the ball too no?

Also they are close because the media votes for this award not you and a lot of the media are talking about the lakers and saying lebron is mvp. That’s not blind Stanhood it’s reality.

Eh, some of that has to do with Giannis and the Bucks not moving the needle from an eyeballs and page clicks standpoint. Talking about Giannis while he plays for the Bucks is not that interesting from a media standpoint. I mean Zion probably got and will get as much coverage as Giannis when he comes back and Melo who's out of his prime gets as much attention than Giannis. Giannis is foreign and plays in a small market and by all accounts will probably resign there so he's not worth talking about as much as other stars. Add to the fact that he doesn't seem interested in teaming up, training, or even hanging out with other star players. Plus to me it seems none of the main NBA media people are close to anybody in Giannis's camp so its hard to really tie any rumors or speculation to him. Meanwhile Lebron James, the biggest star in sports for the past 15 or so years plays for the most important basketball team in the NBA and probably one of the 5 most important NA pro franchises. Oh and don't forget that ratings are down and without the Lakers storyline and Luka the TV media would probably have nothing to talk about this year.