Game 18: Dallas Mavericks (11-6) @ Phoenix Suns (8-9), Friday, 11/29, 7PM MST

[Jstock12]

I ALMOST mentioned Mitchell Robinson but he's not that high...or if he is around top 5 I would still put him behind Trae, Ayton and probably JJJ. Great shot blocker and good rebounder but not much of a scorer and fouls way too much. Though I was hoping we'd take Luka and him at 17 at the time.

There's also that kid in Charlotte averaging 18 PPG and 7.5 APG and 40% from three. Devonte Graham. Top5-worthy impact. Moritz Wagner is playing fantastic for the Wizards, though he's probably gonna come down to Earth. Still, that production/efficiency is also worth consideration for top5. Anfernee Simons is surprising people, though not quite top5-worthy. Also aforementioned Doncic, Young, JJJ, WCJ, SGA, even Sexton. Bagley is in a similar boat as Ayton, not enough data to draw conclusions from, we can only base everything on their rookie years.

Graham is good. Bridges even has had some good games. Funny you mention Moritz Wagner....I picked him up in a fantasy league because I had a bunch of players injured after a couple good games and he had one more good one and then a dud game. But he's basically strictly a scorer. I like Graham but I don't know that he will have an Ayton type impact. The key with Ayton is, how passionate is he or will he be? How bad does he want to win? How bad does he want to get better?

With the latter, I always hear he is a sponge and I always hear great things about how much he is developing. I think if he really does have that work ethic they talk about, and is passionate about winning and continuing to get better, he can easily be the 2nd best player in the draft. He already has great hands and is an elite finisher inside, great short and mid range game and a very solid rebounder. Has shown ability to be a good 1 on 1 defender as well. I just think expectations are much higher being #1. You really would take Graham over him? WCJ hasn't been great and I really liked him...had him ranked 5th.

No, no, you misunderstood me. All I was saying is how I would re-draft them now based on their current ability / impact / production level.

[kennydorglas]

Im so glad that we failed to draft the NEXT GOAT in the NBA.
Thank you, Robert Sarver.
Maybe getting that #1 pick was a curse instead of a blessing.

[Revived]

Thank you McD for not having the balls to go against Sarver and his UofA biased pick

You have it backwards I think..

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Not according to the wiretap

Suns owner Robert Sarver reportedly urged the team draft Deandre Ayton with the #1 pick.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/256306/Suns-Were-Proposed-Plan-To-Select-Luka-Doncic-Sign-Clint-Capela-In-Lead-Up-To-2018-NBA-Draft

[bwgood77]

Thank you McD for not having the balls to go against Sarver and his UofA biased pick

You have it backwards I think..

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Not according to the wiretap

Suns owner Robert Sarver reportedly urged the team draft Deandre Ayton with the #1 pick.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/256306/Suns-Were-Proposed-Plan-To-Select-Luka-Doncic-Sign-Clint-Capela-In-Lead-Up-To-2018-NBA-Draft

I don't see any source....that comes from NBC which has no source. I trust what Russillo said and put that together with my knowledge of knowing Sarver himself was traveling overseas to watch Doncic and McD constantly talking about center. If Sarver watched them both in person and saw them compete in tournaments I can see why he'd go Doncic. I went to UofA but that doesn't mean I always want to draft those guys. Sarver hasn't seemed to be that way other. There have been others we could have drafted, like Markkanen.

[Revived]

You have it backwards I think..

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Not according to the wiretap

Suns owner Robert Sarver reportedly urged the team draft Deandre Ayton with the #1 pick.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/256306/Suns-Were-Proposed-Plan-To-Select-Luka-Doncic-Sign-Clint-Capela-In-Lead-Up-To-2018-NBA-Draft

I don't see any source....that comes from NBC which has no source. I trust what Russillo said and put that together with my knowledge of knowing Sarver himself was traveling overseas to watch Doncic and McD constantly talking about center. If Sarver watched them both in person and saw them compete in tournaments I can see why he'd go Doncic. I went to UofA but that doesn't mean I always want to draft those guys. Sarver hasn't seemed to be that way other. There have been others we could have drafted, like Markkanen.

I guess we’re not ever gonna know unless McD does a tell all tale or something. Kokoskov could do it and give us the truth about what happened without any harm to him but he seems too professional for that.

[bwgood77]

Not according to the wiretap

I don't see any source....that comes from NBC which has no source. I trust what Russillo said and put that together with my knowledge of knowing Sarver himself was traveling overseas to watch Doncic and McD constantly talking about center. If Sarver watched them both in person and saw them compete in tournaments I can see why he'd go Doncic. I went to UofA but that doesn't mean I always want to draft those guys. Sarver hasn't seemed to be that way other. There have been others we could have drafted, like Markkanen.

I guess we’re not ever gonna know unless McD does a tell all tale or something. Kokoskov could do it and give us the truth about what happened without any harm to him but he seems too professional for that.

Man, not sure how you can defend McD but anything he ever said or says will be self preservation. He certainly wouldn't ever admit to overruling Sarver wanting Doncic to take Ayton. Now if Sarver wanted Doncic bad enough we'd have him, but I think we was probably more in the "are you sure?" thought process and McD wanted Ayton. And I honestly don't even think McD would have wanted to take Doncic at 2 if he was there or probably 3. This is all a hunch, but based on following him and listening to everything he says and everyone else says around the team.

[Qwigglez]

This is all on Book. He wants to be an all-star he needs to play consistent every game.

And start games strongly. I know bwgood had mentioned it before but it does look like he’s trying to protect his shooting %s to some degree.

No, I didn't mention that. A lot of people think he should have been more aggressive or tried to take over last night but he wasn't shooting particularly well. He still took 16 shots though, 1 shy of his average. But only hit 6 of them. He also had 8 assists and only 3 turnovers which is good. It just wasn't his best night. It would have been nice if he was hot shooting but he wasn't. Heck, even Cam Johnson was only 1-5. Our best 3 pt shooter was Rubio, hitting 4-6. Oubre shot 4-8 from 3. Bridges was 5-8 from the field and 1-2 from 3. Saric, Cam and Okobo 0-9 from 3. That's probably a rare thing if they are all getting decent minutes.

Just a bad shooting night. It sucks we waste a good shooting night on the WAS game when they were on absolute fire and would have beaten the Mavs, and last night had we shot that well, we would have won. It's not like they were great defensively....most of those 3s were open ones.

I mentioned in an earlier game that it looks like Book is trying to protect his shooting %s. Booker just doesn't look as aggressive attacking the rim anymore. He's averaging just 5 FTA's a game, his lowest since his rookie year. Last year he shot 7 FTA's a game, the year before he was averaging 6 FTA's a game. It's not that big of a difference, but I feel he isn't trying to create as much contact anymore, alternatively looking to setup teammates.
Actually just looked at Books shot attempts and he is shooting 32% of his shots within 3 feet, while last year he took 23% of his shots within 3 feet. So I'm not sure what it is, perhaps he just isn't getting as many calls this year.

I know I'm just beating a dead horse at this point, but man we just really need Ayton back to see what our offense looks like at full strength. I imagine everyone's %s will be boosted.

[LesGrossman]

I think more outside shooting is neccessary, too. Ayton or not, Oubre is not a reliable shooter or trust worthy guy on offense meaning that you can rely on him to make good decisions. I like the offense the best when Rubio has the ball and goes to PnR with one of the bigs and drives, draws multiple defenders and finds the open guy for the open 3 or backdoor cut. So far the shooters havent delivered though. It cant be that Ricky is the top scorer, that is just wrong and unnatural.

Also i think the team is told not to run in transition which is hurting them. They always go against half court defense and too many of them are low iq players for whom it would be much more natural to rebound and run. When Rubio waits for the outlet pass in the backcourt, dribbles up the floor and still is the first to arrive at the 3pt line to initiate something, you know you have either a really really old or lazy team or they intentionally slow the game down.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I don't see any source....that comes from NBC which has no source. I trust what Russillo said and put that together with my knowledge of knowing Sarver himself was traveling overseas to watch Doncic and McD constantly talking about center. If Sarver watched them both in person and saw them compete in tournaments I can see why he'd go Doncic. I went to UofA but that doesn't mean I always want to draft those guys. Sarver hasn't seemed to be that way other. There have been others we could have drafted, like Markkanen.

I guess we’re not ever gonna know unless McD does a tell all tale or something. Kokoskov could do it and give us the truth about what happened without any harm to him but he seems too professional for that.

Man, not sure how you can defend McD but anything he ever said or says will be self preservation. He certainly wouldn't ever admit to overruling Sarver wanting Doncic to take Ayton. Now if Sarver wanted Doncic bad enough we'd have him, but I think we was probably more in the "are you sure?" thought process and McD wanted Ayton. And I honestly don't even think McD would have wanted to take Doncic at 2 if he was there or probably 3. This is all a hunch, but based on following him and listening to everything he says and everyone else says around the team.

Some points on this:

Russillo is a legit source, he doesn't just throw **** out there for the hell of it.

McD loves blaming others and he's been doing plenty of media since his firing. Had he wanted Luka we would know.

I always wondered if this played into the timing of his firing. Like maybe they saw Luka in preseason and it pissed sarver off.

With all that said it's still ultimately sarvers fault. Having McD make that pick was criminal negligence to begin with considering his GM track record before that draft. Sarver was responsible for employing him. Plus the #1 pick is an organizational decision, that's such a big thing that the owner should and I'm sure did have input. That's not meddling that's just reality. Now maybe mcd talked sarver into Ayton but at the end of the day sarver was the ultimate decision maker on that pick.

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[bwgood77]

And start games strongly. I know bwgood had mentioned it before but it does look like he’s trying to protect his shooting %s to some degree.

No, I didn't mention that. A lot of people think he should have been more aggressive or tried to take over last night but he wasn't shooting particularly well. He still took 16 shots though, 1 shy of his average. But only hit 6 of them. He also had 8 assists and only 3 turnovers which is good. It just wasn't his best night. It would have been nice if he was hot shooting but he wasn't. Heck, even Cam Johnson was only 1-5. Our best 3 pt shooter was Rubio, hitting 4-6. Oubre shot 4-8 from 3. Bridges was 5-8 from the field and 1-2 from 3. Saric, Cam and Okobo 0-9 from 3. That's probably a rare thing if they are all getting decent minutes.

Just a bad shooting night. It sucks we waste a good shooting night on the WAS game when they were on absolute fire and would have beaten the Mavs, and last night had we shot that well, we would have won. It's not like they were great defensively....most of those 3s were open ones.

I mentioned in an earlier game that it looks like Book is trying to protect his shooting %s. Booker just doesn't look as aggressive attacking the rim anymore. He's averaging just 5 FTA's a game, his lowest since his rookie year. Last year he shot 7 FTA's a game, the year before he was averaging 6 FTA's a game. It's not that big of a difference, but I feel he isn't trying to create as much contact anymore, alternatively looking to setup teammates.
Actually just looked at Books shot attempts and he is shooting 32% of his shots within 3 feet, while last year he took 23% of his shots within 3 feet. So I'm not sure what it is, perhaps he just isn't getting as many calls this year.

I know I'm just beating a dead horse at this point, but man we just really need Ayton back to see what our offense looks like at full strength. I imagine everyone's %s will be boosted.

Booker does need to attack the rim more but it's harder with Rubio since he is left open at 3 pt line (but if he keeps going 4-6 maybe that changes), but if floor is stretched (which it has been when Rubio was out) he should have more ability to drive to rim. Most teams we have faced as of late have seemed to have someone good in midddle or even guys who move quickly to cover the paint. Rubio was getting drives swatted by Porzingis...you just have to pick your spots of when to drive and do it when it's open or people are not expecting it (Oubre very bad at this).

I think Booker is playing smart. That's why his percentages are better. I wouldn't say he's actively trying to protect them...he still takes some long 3s he doesn't need to. And last game his turnovers were down....he had better than a 2/1 ast/to ratio which is unusual. Overall he has had some bad turnovers this year though...that's been most concerning to me. Outside of that he is shooting much better and defending a lot better. I mean most across the NBA think he's playing better with real talent around him. And trying on defense finally.

Sure he won a few games with hero mode last year when we had a crappy team but we also were awful overall and mostly got blown out. Our entire team is much better this year which is why he plays more within system, relies on teammates, and puts in more effort on defense. I'd be more pissed about Ayton being out for breaking rules...he is the reason we are losing (if you had to point to something...not that we'd win every game for sure with him, but it sure as hell would help, especially when Baynes is out).

[Dual]

We saw the best Booker of his career the first games of the season. He played with high IQ, knowing when to shoot or pass. His level last games(lot of them without Ricky btw) just have drop, with lot of turnovers and with less efficency scoring.
I was so impressed with him at the beginning of the season, even I said he was a MVP candidate (right now Giannis, Harden and Doncic are untouchable for that price I believe).
The thing is in general his level has drop and I dont think is because other people, is because that level of focus is not there anymore.
He is still great, but not as great as he was those games.
Also I think the 3 big problems we have lately is defense, rebounds and Monty rotations.

[bwgood77]

I guess we’re not ever gonna know unless McD does a tell all tale or something. Kokoskov could do it and give us the truth about what happened without any harm to him but he seems too professional for that.

Man, not sure how you can defend McD but anything he ever said or says will be self preservation. He certainly wouldn't ever admit to overruling Sarver wanting Doncic to take Ayton. Now if Sarver wanted Doncic bad enough we'd have him, but I think we was probably more in the "are you sure?" thought process and McD wanted Ayton. And I honestly don't even think McD would have wanted to take Doncic at 2 if he was there or probably 3. This is all a hunch, but based on following him and listening to everything he says and everyone else says around the team.

Some points on this:

Russillo is a legit source, he doesn't just throw **** out there for the hell of it.

McD loves blaming others and he's been doing plenty of media since his firing. Had he wanted Luka we would know.

I always wondered if this played into the timing of his firing. Like maybe they saw Luka in preseason and it pissed sarver off.

With all that said it's still ultimately sarvers fault. Having McD make that pick was criminal negligence to begin with considering his GM track record before that draft. Sarver was responsible for employing him. Plus the #1 pick is an organizational decision, that's such a big thing that the owner should and I'm sure did have input. That's not meddling that's just reality. Now maybe mcd talked sarver into Ayton but at the end of the day sarver was the ultimate decision maker on that pick.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

But there was SO much complaining about Sarver meddling and he was constantly bashed that I think he did less and less of it with time and tried to let McD do his job. I think ultimately maybe Sarver and Jones were ok with the pick and felt it was close enough to where it could go either way at worst.

But if they had any idea they were going to fire him it should have been done far prior to the draft and not late in the offseason, except he was likely mostly pissed that McD told him he would find a PG and didn't prior to the season getting ready to start.

Ultimately, it needed to be done but the timing wasn't good.

One other thing. I don't know if you knew or remember, but Cole Zwicker was working for the Suns for quite a while, which would lead me to believe Jones and therefore Sarver read thestepien, which had Doncic as a CLEAR #1. He also didn't get hired until AFTER McD was fired.

[bwgood77]

We saw the best Booker of his career the first games of the season. He played with high IQ, knowing when to shoot or pass. His level last games(lot of them without Ricky btw) just have drop, with lot of turnovers and with less efficency scoring.
I was so impressed with him at the beginning of the season, even I said he was a MVP candidate (right now Giannis, Harden and Doncic are untouchable for that price I believe).
The thing is in general his level has drop and I dont think is because other people, is because that level of focus is not there anymore.
He is still great, but not as great as he was those games.
Also I think the 3 big problems we have lately is defense, rebounds and Monty rotations.

He had to adjust without Rubio and Baynes and had to readjust with them back. I wouldn't hold too much against him there. At least he came into the season strong and healthy and has remained injury free. The previous offseason we was goofing around and came into the season injury and was hampered for what seems like the first half of the season. Overall, he has stepped up his game big time this season overall.

[Dual]

We saw the best Booker of his career the first games of the season. He played with high IQ, knowing when to shoot or pass. His level last games(lot of them without Ricky btw) just have drop, with lot of turnovers and with less efficency scoring.
I was so impressed with him at the beginning of the season, even I said he was a MVP candidate (right now Giannis, Harden and Doncic are untouchable for that price I believe).
The thing is in general his level has drop and I dont think is because other people, is because that level of focus is not there anymore.
He is still great, but not as great as he was those games.
Also I think the 3 big problems we have lately is defense, rebounds and Monty rotations.

He had to adjust without Rubio and Baynes and had to readjust with them back. I wouldn't hold too much against him there. At least he came into the season strong and healthy and has remained injury free. The previous offseason we was goofing around and came into the season injury and was hampered for what seems like the first half of the season. Overall, he has stepped up his game big time this season overall.

Sure, is just a big plus for the team if he play at a super star and not only a star level player.
As I said, the 3 big problems I think we have are defense, rebounds and Monty rotations.
With Ayton back, rebounds will go up I'm sure, the thing about defense is strange tbh, we were really good at the beginning, and now we forget how to do it, I'm confused.
The Monty issue, I hope he will figure out, he like to mix things so much it goes in detriment of the team, and the selection of players and their minutes are not there yet.
Also I think one of the problems Booker has, is that Monty leave him ton of minutes without rest on the court, and that affects his efficiency.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Man, not sure how you can defend McD but anything he ever said or says will be self preservation. He certainly wouldn't ever admit to overruling Sarver wanting Doncic to take Ayton. Now if Sarver wanted Doncic bad enough we'd have him, but I think we was probably more in the "are you sure?" thought process and McD wanted Ayton. And I honestly don't even think McD would have wanted to take Doncic at 2 if he was there or probably 3. This is all a hunch, but based on following him and listening to everything he says and everyone else says around the team.

Some points on this:

Russillo is a legit source, he doesn't just throw **** out there for the hell of it.

McD loves blaming others and he's been doing plenty of media since his firing. Had he wanted Luka we would know.

I always wondered if this played into the timing of his firing. Like maybe they saw Luka in preseason and it pissed sarver off.

With all that said it's still ultimately sarvers fault. Having McD make that pick was criminal negligence to begin with considering his GM track record before that draft. Sarver was responsible for employing him. Plus the #1 pick is an organizational decision, that's such a big thing that the owner should and I'm sure did have input. That's not meddling that's just reality. Now maybe mcd talked sarver into Ayton but at the end of the day sarver was the ultimate decision maker on that pick.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

But there was SO much complaining about Sarver meddling and he was constantly bashed that I think he did less and less of it with time and tried to let McD do his job. I think ultimately maybe Sarver and Jones were ok with the pick and felt it was close enough to where it could go either way at worst.

But if they had any idea they were going to fire him it should have been done far prior to the draft and not late in the offseason, except he was likely mostly pissed that McD told him he would find a PG and didn't prior to the season getting ready to start.

Ultimately, it needed to be done but the timing wasn't good.

One other thing. I don't know if you knew or remember, but Cole Zwicker was working for the Suns for quite a while, which would lead me to believe Jones and therefore Sarver read thestepien, which had Doncic as a CLEAR #1. He also didn't get hired until AFTER McD was fired.

I do think the negative press about sarver constantly changing out the FO caused him to keep McD longer than he should have. I also think McD was a tricky little weasel who did a good job selling himself to sarver that he was smart.

Owner meddling in sports is an interesting topic and it's not a black and white deal. All owners have the final say and that's normal and acceptable in any sport. In simmons book of basketball pod with Morey he was talking about how ownership vetoed trades both when he was with Boston and Houston and that's normal and mentioned it saved him a couple times. Cuban mentioned in an interview he regretted over ruling his FO on drafting Giannis. So sarver having the final say on something like the number 1 overall pick is normal.

Where the meddling gets bad is the stuff about sarver getting on coaches about game plans and **** like that.

I would love to know the true story on the McD firing. Did sarver simply have enough or did Jones engineer it and win a power struggle.
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[LesGrossman]

These same Mavs just gave the Lakers a sound beating. Luka embarrassed "king" James. I'd go as far as to say that our Suns looked better against them than the Lakers did. The Mavs are for real, and so are the suns. This loss is in the "acceptable" category for me.