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will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player?

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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#221 » by Sedale Threatt » Mon Dec 2, 2019 2:25 am

Yeah, he's rapidly becoming one of my least-favorite Lakers in a while. Pleasant surprise as a rookie, minimal improvement in Year 2 and now this. It would be one thing if he brought anything else to the table besides scoring. But when his shot isn't falling, his lack of hustle/toughness/defense/IQ/consistency -- the next loose ball he gets on will be his first -- is only magnified. I know he's had injury troubles this year, but it just seems like an excuse. Tons of players deal with that over the course of the season and still manage to hit the ground running when they get back.
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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#222 » by NippySudz » Mon Dec 2, 2019 3:05 am

Sedale Threatt wrote:Yeah, he's rapidly becoming one of my least-favorite Lakers in a while. Pleasant surprise as a rookie, minimal improvement in Year 2 and now this. It would be one thing if he brought anything else to the table besides scoring. But when his shot isn't falling, his lack of hustle/toughness/defense/IQ/consistency -- the next loose ball he gets on will be his first -- only gets magnified. I know he's had injury troubles this year, but it just seems like an excuse. Tons of players deal with that over the course of the season and still manage to hit the ground running when they get back.


As laker film room has pointed out, he's too afraid of contact. After that was pointed out, I saw how much he was afraid of fouling someone and instead give up a layup. I forgot which game it was but someone was driving to the hoop, he had his hand in the cookie jar so to speak good chance he could have strip it if he had fast hands, but he took both of his hands away in an Neil Degrasse Tyson - form and gave him the open layup. Didn't try to force the guy to play his left hand, didn't even extend his hands straight up. He just let the guy go unmolested to the basket. He wasn't in foul trouble.

As LFR mentions again, the hops that he does while in a defensive stance hurts his ability to defend.

here's the video if anyone hasn't seen it

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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#223 » by Beethoven » Mon Dec 2, 2019 3:42 am

NippySudz wrote:
Beethoven wrote:Kuzma for iguodala straight up let's do it.

that would be a terrible trade. Not only money, but youth. Kuzma is much more valuable to the lakers than iggy. Iggy is merely a rental.

I was saying that out of pure emotion at that time.

I'm settled now. But if they did trade kuzma for Iggy i wouldn't mind it at all.
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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#224 » by nzahir » Mon Dec 2, 2019 3:55 am

Beethoven wrote:
NippySudz wrote:
Beethoven wrote:Kuzma for iguodala straight up let's do it.

that would be a terrible trade. Not only money, but youth. Kuzma is much more valuable to the lakers than iggy. Iggy is merely a rental.

I was saying that out of pure emotion at that time.

I'm settled now. But if they did trade kuzma for Iggy i wouldn't mind it at all.

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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#225 » by Cafu » Mon Dec 2, 2019 4:24 am

For the long run I think the Lakers should integrate Kuz more on the offense. Not just some catch n shoot and occasionally cut.
We badly need a consistent 3rd options especially for the bench so if you want Kuz to be that 3rd option you should spend more times develope him.
The 1st step was identify our team, I think we are doing ok.
2nd step is the chemistry between LBJ and AD, this still need some works on having AD involve more in attacking action, not only dump the ball to him on the post.
The next step should be integrate Kuz more on offense. He has his up and down but too often I saw him running without purposes on offense and the bench has no go to move or go to set to play.
Outside of tweaking the D and O in general IMO this is important too.
And ppl may want to ship Kuz asses but with him playing inconsistent like this there will be no teams wanting him. So just lets work with what we have in our hands first.
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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#226 » by NippySudz » Mon Dec 2, 2019 4:50 am

Cafu wrote:For the long run I think the Lakers should integrate Kuz more on the offense. Not just some catch n shoot and occasionally cut.
We badly need a consistent 3rd options especially for the bench so if you want Kuz to be that 3rd option you should spend more times develope him.
The 1st step was identify our team, I think we are doing ok.
2nd step is the chemistry between LBJ and AD, this still need some works on having AD involve more in attacking action, not only dump the ball to him on the post.
The next step should be integrate Kuz more on offense. He has his up and down but too often I saw him running without purposes on offense and the bench has no go to move or go to set to play.
Outside of tweaking the D and O in general IMO this is important too.
And ppl may want to ship Kuz asses but with him playing inconsistent like this there will be no teams wanting him. So just lets work with what we have in our hands first.

Kuzma's handling hasn't improved to the point where they can run it through him as a consistent option. Unless you're talking about slashing options
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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#227 » by nzahir » Mon Dec 2, 2019 6:05 am

Kuzma isn't consistent enough to be a #3 option on a legit contender. He should be on a younger team where he has more minutes so he can grow and the expectation isn't to win rn. Or a 4th option on a contender with a solid CONSISTENT #3 guy.

Young teams that make sense:
Grizz
Cavs

Contenders that make sense b/c they have 3 solid consistent scorers:
Nuggets
Jazz
Blazers (when nurkic is back)

Spurs also make sense if they choose to rebuild
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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#228 » by NippySudz » Mon Dec 2, 2019 6:56 am

Jamal Crawford is still unsigned. If kuzma doesn't show anything by ASB and no one else picks up crawford, I expect crawford to be a laker. He could be their consistent scoring option off the bench. They'll probably have to release someone if they get iggy+crawford. Idk. But sign crawford to a non guarantee and iggy to a vet minimum.

crawford is a chucker but he has handling and playmaking abilities and if you split his minutes with the bench, it shouldn't be too bad? I'm not sure.
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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#229 » by Mos_Heat » Mon Dec 2, 2019 8:30 am

NippySudz wrote:Jamal Crawford is still unsigned. If kuzma doesn't show anything by ASB and no one else picks up crawford, I expect crawford to be a laker. He could be their consistent scoring option off the bench. They'll probably have to release someone if they get iggy+crawford. Idk. But sign crawford to a non guarantee and iggy to a vet minimum.

crawford is a chucker but he has handling and playmaking abilities and if you split his minutes with the bench, it shouldn't be too bad? I'm not sure.

Not sure collecting all time terrible defenders is the best way to do it
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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#230 » by NippySudz » Mon Dec 2, 2019 1:22 pm

Mos_Heat wrote:
NippySudz wrote:Jamal Crawford is still unsigned. If kuzma doesn't show anything by ASB and no one else picks up crawford, I expect crawford to be a laker. He could be their consistent scoring option off the bench. They'll probably have to release someone if they get iggy+crawford. Idk. But sign crawford to a non guarantee and iggy to a vet minimum.

crawford is a chucker but he has handling and playmaking abilities and if you split his minutes with the bench, it shouldn't be too bad? I'm not sure.

Not sure collecting all time terrible defenders is the best way to do it
I'm not sure there are a lot of decent two way players on the market that they can afford. Time will tell

Won't know until closer to asb if kuzma is consistent or not. I personally don't believe he will be

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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#231 » by Beethoven » Wed Dec 4, 2019 5:07 pm

He looks sometimes lost out there and he doesnt seem to show any urgency ; all his actions on the court look a bit nonchalant, or , perhaps that is just his personality, but I am not really getting him these past several games.
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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#232 » by lalalaker » Fri Dec 6, 2019 9:14 am

Im not sure if kuzma is confused with his new role or that his conditioning isnt still perfect from his leg injury and sickness. But he does get going when he is looking to score and demand the ball but has to do so consistently. I dont think its a right mentality to leave the problem alone jus bc lakers are winning. his shot is short most of the time so he needs to get back his legs under him to shoot with more arc. something is not right with him and i hope lakers training staff makes sure his role is defined to his comfort cause right now he seems to be backing off from making plays for himself and instead just passing away the ball like how lonzo was last season.
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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#233 » by LAKESHOW » Fri Dec 6, 2019 9:38 am

This is why those shooting coaches shouldnt be so quick to be show offs. Because this can be directly correlated and traced back to this coach. Hes lost some confidence. Because he Doesnt at times trust his mechanics. Horry used to say, i just follow my same said stroke you been doin all along. Ie his mechanics
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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#234 » by thomas1897 » Fri Dec 6, 2019 1:16 pm

Kuzma has shown he can be a very good player and an all star. To understand the type of player Kuzma is one has to take a step back in time from his rookie season to the present. This year he has had some injuries and the new additions of AD, Avery Bradley and a new coach. The structure of how the Lakers are playing has been outstanding. He is not required to be the one or two option on offense. Kuz should round off the rough edges of his game starting with rebounding, defense and passing. Understanding the concept of how Frank Vogel wants his skills used in the Lakers system. Kuz has a great basketball personality that the Lakers can apply starting with being poised under pressure, making the correct pass,understanding half court sets both offense and defense. AD and Lebron are ball dominant players Kuz just needs to be ready and Frank Vogel should give him his game plan for this year's 2020 season.
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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#235 » by stan francisco » Fri Dec 6, 2019 1:20 pm

Everybody needs to chill. It took all the vets a month and a half to get used to the defensive pace, system etc. They’re first now starting to thrive in it.

Kuzma is a baller. Once he catches up... Let’s revisit in mid January. He’s right now climbing that same hill that everyone else (seasoned vets) just recently cleared.

He will be considered our third star by ASB. He had an injury causing him a late start.

In Kuz I trust.

PG: James[34], Bradley, Rondo, Cook
SG: Caruso[28], Pope, Daniels, THT
SF: Kuzma[28], Green, THT, Caroline
PF: Davis[34], Kuzma, Dudley, Cacok
C: McGee[24], Howard, Kostas, (DMC)

Go huge: PG James | SG Kuz | SF Davis | PF Cousins | C Howard

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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#236 » by NippySudz » Fri Dec 6, 2019 4:43 pm

thomas1897 wrote:Kuzma has shown he can be a very good player and an all star. To understand the type of player Kuzma is one has to take a step back in time from his rookie season to the present. This year he has had some injuries and the new additions of AD, Avery Bradley and a new coach. The structure of how the Lakers are playing has been outstanding. He is not required to be the one or two option on offense. Kuz should round off the rough edges of his game starting with rebounding, defense and passing. Understanding the concept of how Frank Vogel wants his skills used in the Lakers system. Kuz has a great basketball personality that the Lakers can apply starting with being poised under pressure, making the correct pass,understanding half court sets both offense and defense. AD and Lebron are ball dominant players Kuz just needs to be ready and Frank Vogel should give him his game plan for this year's 2020 season.


What has kuzma shown that he can be an all star? He has shown glimpses of being able to score the basketball. He hasn't shown glimpses of all star talent. He doesn't score at an elite clip, doesn't rebound at a decent clip, doesn't assist at a mediocre clip. Every once and awhile, he gets hot.

Beethoven wrote:He looks sometimes lost out there and he doesnt seem to show any urgency ; all his actions on the court look a bit nonchalant, or , perhaps that is just his personality, but I am not really getting him these past several games.



I think he's looking for the right spots to see where he can fit in the offense. That's what it looked like against the nuggets to me anyway. I think he'll be better than some of his recent games. SInce he's been back, he's had 8 single digit scoring games. I think he'll be better than that, but I don't think he's going to be 20pt kuz especially off the bench.I think people who are expecting that are expecting a lot from kuz.
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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#237 » by Beethoven » Fri Dec 6, 2019 5:02 pm

^I hope so. but i do expect about 20 per game from him in games when lebron doesnt play let say.
We got to have a back up scorer who can come in and take over for long stretches ...like Elden Campbell did for Shaq during that one year when shaq was out for a few weeks Elden started, and he really stepped up averaging a double double per game (if i recall correctly).
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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#238 » by NippySudz » Fri Dec 6, 2019 5:14 pm

Beethoven wrote:^I hope so. but i do expect about 20 per game from him in games when lebron doesnt play let say.
We got to have a back up scorer who can come in and take over for long stretches ...like Elden Campbell did for Shaq during that one year when shaq was out for a few weeks Elden started, and he really stepped up averaging a double double per game (if i recall correctly).

I think kuz sweet spot should be 14-16pts on high efficiency. He also needs to hit the three ball mucch more higher, If he can shoot the 3 around 38%-40% then it'll be of immense value. However, if he ends up shooting the three around 30% and his numbers are sufficient, He might be sat in crucial times of games during the playoffs.

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if that happened in the playoffs and he's not scoring enough to offset that, he'd get yanked immediately because he is bleeding points.
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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#239 » by Kilroy » Fri Dec 6, 2019 6:10 pm

NippySudz wrote:
Beethoven wrote:^I hope so. but i do expect about 20 per game from him in games when lebron doesnt play let say.
We got to have a back up scorer who can come in and take over for long stretches ...like Elden Campbell did for Shaq during that one year when shaq was out for a few weeks Elden started, and he really stepped up averaging a double double per game (if i recall correctly).

I think kuz sweet spot should be 14-16pts on high efficiency. He also needs to hit the three ball mucch more higher, If he can shoot the 3 around 38%-40% then it'll be of immense value. However, if he ends up shooting the three around 30% and his numbers are sufficient, He might be sat in crucial times of games during the playoffs.

Read on Twitter


if that happened in the playoffs and he's not scoring enough to offset that, he'd get yanked immediately because he is bleeding points.


Siakam is killing just about everyone this season... The problem with that clip isn't that Kuz can't guard him, it's that the coaching staff was so stupid that they thought he could... And then let him continue to try for a bunch of possessions.

The problem with Kuz was that people's expectations were way too high from his rookie season. He was a low draft pick that over achieved and sucked everyone in... The analogies to Clarkson are pretty good... Or Nance...
He's never been a super high BBIQ player, and routinely gets confused on both ends of the floor. He's a decent ball handler in the open court but shouldn't be allowed to dribble in traffic.
Basically we should have been rigidly grooming him to be a spot up jump shooter, instead of giving him the green light to try to create and post up... It ruined him. Now his shot isn't falling and he's not really useful when his shot doesn't fall.
He's still basically a liability on D against anyone good.

I think we all hoped he'd get motivated this off season and come in committed to his role as shooter/scorer off the bench, but he hasn't shown that yet... So we're kind of stuck with a player the FO seems to have overvalued.

All we can do now is root for him and hope he turns a corner...
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Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#240 » by NippySudz » Fri Dec 6, 2019 6:27 pm

Kilroy wrote:
NippySudz wrote:
Beethoven wrote:^I hope so. but i do expect about 20 per game from him in games when lebron doesnt play let say.
We got to have a back up scorer who can come in and take over for long stretches ...like Elden Campbell did for Shaq during that one year when shaq was out for a few weeks Elden started, and he really stepped up averaging a double double per game (if i recall correctly).

I think kuz sweet spot should be 14-16pts on high efficiency. He also needs to hit the three ball mucch more higher, If he can shoot the 3 around 38%-40% then it'll be of immense value. However, if he ends up shooting the three around 30% and his numbers are sufficient, He might be sat in crucial times of games during the playoffs.

Read on Twitter


if that happened in the playoffs and he's not scoring enough to offset that, he'd get yanked immediately because he is bleeding points.


Siakam is killing just about everyone this season... The problem with that clip isn't that Kuz can't guard him, it's that the coaching staff was so stupid that they thought he could... And then let him continue to try for a bunch of possessions.

The problem with Kuz was that people's expectations were way too high from his rookie season. He was a low draft pick that over achieved and sucked everyone in... The analogies to Clarkson are pretty good... Or Nance...
He's never been a super high BBIQ player, and routinely gets confused on both ends of the floor. He's a decent ball handler in the open court but shouldn't be allowed to dribble in traffic.
Basically we should have been rigidly grooming him to be a spot up jump shooter, instead of giving him the green light to try to create and post up... It ruined him. Now his shot isn't falling and he's not really useful when his shot doesn't fall.
He's still basically a liability on D against anyone good.

I think we all hoped he'd get motivated this off season and come in committed to his role as shooter/scorer off the bench, but he hasn't shown that yet... So we're kind of stuck with a player the FO seems to have overvalued.

All we can do now is root for him and hope he turns a corner...


I thought the Jordan Clarkson comparisons were apropos, but when I bring that up, I'm a laker hater. :lol:

That's fair to say that its on Frank Vogel on the defensive end, but at the same time, I think its beneficial that Kuz gets this hard lesson in the regular season where matchups are important. If he was on another team with less talent, he'd probably be starting and him getting cooked by wing ball handlers would be a regular occurrence. Sometimes, its better to learn by the fire.

That being said, I don't think he'll ever turn into some elite defender, but if he can turn into an ok help defender and score ok, that should be able to keep him on the floor in crucial moments.

My problem with kuzma is that he's a salesman and a portion of laker fanbase buy into whatever he's selling. Despite the numbers, despite the evidence. Kuzma sometimes talks as if he's arrived, which is a little annoying, especially with his inconsistent play.

He said he worked on his ballhandling, shooting and defense this off-season. Nothing have come into fruition. Handling should be there regardless of rust, lack of training camp etc.

People make up excuses for him, "He didn't have a training camp."" He got his eye poked"(**has a 16pt game**, suddenly the eye injury that happened five games before is irrelevant, but not two nights before where he score single digits), he had a 13pt game, which is better than what's been showing recently, "He has the flu"

at the very least, the improvement of his ballhandling should be present.

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