Giannis Thread - DPOY Page 88

[mattg]

Giannis isn’t an elite passer. He has good vision and is willing to dish the ball but there’s a number of reasons he isn’t elite.

Recognition. He’s just too slow at reading the defensive coverage when he’s swarmed. He waits far too long to pass, rarely beating defenses by making a great pass in anticipation for how the defense has rotated, instead waiting until he has to pass because he has been swallowed by the defense. This was the big issue against both Boston and Toronto in the playoffs, his decision making was just too slow and not crisp enough.

Passing accuracy is the second one. Giannis gets a ton of chances to play drive and kick and our guys just want to gun 3s...the only issue is a lot of times Giannis throws off target passes. Elite passers put those easy drive and kick opportunities right in the shooting pocket for their teammates basically every time no matter what the defense is doing, not at the knees, not a foot left or right, not a bounce pass that barely has enough on it to gets to the shooter as it was a bit desperate, etc.

Lack of passing on the move. Now, part of this is due to Giannis’s play style not being conducive to it, but it’s worth mentioning. As a ball handler Giannis is in attack mode. He’s going north south right away or he’s sizing up to attack north south or pull up for a J if unguarded. He is not surveying, he is not manipulating the defense with his dribble only to fire a bullet pass to a wide open teammate. He also is so aggressive with the ball that he isn’t under control a lot, obviously it’s why he picks up so many offensive fouls, but it also makes it tough to see the floor in certain situations when you’re so aggressive putting your head down and attacking.

[Magic Giannison]

Giannis is a very good playmaker bc of the gravity he has as a scorer and he has good enough vision to capitalize on it pretty well. But his vision/timing/touch as a passer isn’t on the level of the truly great passers, even if you limit it to just wings and bigs and take PGs out of the equation. Guys like LeBron, Jokic, Doncic, Simmons are the elite passers in that group today. If Giannis‘ pure passing talent was on that level to go along with his athletic/scoring talent, we’re talking a borderline GOAT level player even with a weak jumper.

Now this is something i can agree with and sounds reasonable enough. Doncic and Simmons are guards tho and they dont have the same gravity or impact on the dives unlike Giannis, what is weird people punish Giannis for kicking out because he draws a lot of attention, i do not understand why is that against him.

I don't think Giannis will ever focus on pure passing because he wants and has to contribute in many ways,defense scoring etc.

As for the season,im curious if Giannis keeps the same trajectory as he does so far how high would you rank his season ?

[FrieAaron]

what is weird people punish Giannis for kicking out because he draws a lot of attention, i do not understand why is that against him.

People are stupid.

[Magic Giannison]

You have totally lost it MG.

If you're confused read few pages ago about my conversation with kidd, you might get better idea why i posted what i did.

Besides that yeah, i don't agree that an elite passer needs to have flashy passes its for the same reason Shaq was elite scorer despite dunking the ball, if it works keep doing it. granted passing is way more complex than just dunking the whole concept still works

[emunney]

what is weird people punish Giannis for kicking out because he draws a lot of attention, i do not understand why is that against him.

People are stupid.

I think the idea is that elite passers deliver better passes in those situations, but Giannis creates a lot more of those situations than most great passers do, because not one of them threatens the rim like Giannis does. I'd have to chart it to be sure, and I also think it's improved, but it seems to me like a lot of Giannis' kick outs are off target. Not off target enough to miss the targeted player, but off target enough that the player has to adjust to the pass more than you'd like. Often it doesn't matter because the guy is *so* wide open. But the location and timing of his passes are not consistently to the standard of the great passers.

Part of it, though, is that we so often associate great passing with great *interior* passing and there's just a lot less room for that for Giannis due to how teams defend him. He has to kick out because everybody's in the paint. I think perception of him as a passer would be better if he could shoot a 15 foot pull up well enough to be a classic pick and roll player. I'm confident he could pick teams apart.

[FrieAaron]

what is weird people punish Giannis for kicking out because he draws a lot of attention, i do not understand why is that against him.

People are stupid.

I think the idea is that elite passers deliver better passes in those situations, but Giannis creates a lot more of those situations than most great passers do, because not one of them threatens the rim like Giannis does. I'd have to chart it to be sure, and I also think it's improved, but it seems to me like a lot of Giannis' kick outs are off target. Not off target enough to miss the targeted player, but off target enough that the player has to adjust to the pass more than you'd like. Often it doesn't matter because the guy is *so* wide open. But the location and timing of his passes are not consistently to the standard of the great passers.

Part of it, though, is that we so often associate great passing with great *interior* passing and there's just a lot less room for that for Giannis due to how teams defend him. He has to kick out because everybody's in the paint. I think perception of him as a passer would be better if he could shoot a 15 foot pull up well enough to be a classic pick and roll player. I'm confident he could pick teams apart.

Yeah, I agree that he certainly could have made quicker decisions in the Raptor series with his passes, but like you said it still generally results in an open look for his teammates. So in that regard I think he did more than enough in terms of creating for teammates in that series to win it - his supporting cast just missed way too many good looks.

[greekbuck34]

Giannis is not an elite passer(top 10 in the league) but he is good enough so that he can take advantage of his insane gravity and create much better looks (wide open 3s) than much better passers than him and that's what matters the most.
I think he is 1st by far on creating wide open 3s for the second season in a row despite him playing just 32 MPG.
We are average and streaky shooting team and we cound't take fully advantage of that yet though.

[Pachinko_]

He's a good enough passer.
Needs to work on finding the pass when he's getting trapped / double teamed on the wing above the break. Never happens in the regular season but the Raps did it a lot on him in the ECF and he didnt know what to do, just turned his back to the basket and waited for a PG to save him. Should only take a couple of afternoons with Bud to solve it. Easiest solution is to put the ball above his head and pass with both hands, which he never does. Needs to add it to his arsenal.

Also he needs to work a little on his accuracy. He sees the pass most of the time and makes it, but it's too often low or wide.

[HKPackFan]

Giannis doing live video on IG, showing him opening up some stuff from nike.

a few new pairs of shoes and a nice jacket.

[brettski]

When are players of the month announced? Keen to know if it goes to Melo and Dinwiddie.

[Nightfall]

When are players of the month announced? Keen to know if it goes to Melo and Dinwiddie.

Yesterday. Melo and Giannis

[fbalmeida]

Melo as player of the week on his stats is some fine trolling by the people who decide these things.

[brettski]

When are players of the month announced? Keen to know if it goes to Melo and Dinwiddie.

Yesterday. Melo and Giannis

Thats player of the week not month

[Nightfall]

When are players of the month announced? Keen to know if it goes to Melo and Dinwiddie.

Yesterday. Melo and Giannis

Thats player of the week not month

And I should learn to read better....
I think last year the player of Oct/Nov was announced on the first Tuesday in December

[CharityStripe34]

Yianni is a very good passer. I wouldn't say elite. But for his size he does make some nifty, creative passes now and then. But as others have stated he isn't necessarily asked to be an elite playmaker either. Still, though, 5-6 assists a night for a 6'11" wunderkind is fantastic. I guess it's comparable to prime KG?

[skones]

I DO think he's made marked strides in passing by the eye test. He seems to be passing more concisely this year. They're sharper with more purpose.

[Ron Swanson]

People just way too often confuse passing with play-making. Lebron is both an elite passer and play-maker. Giannis is a good passer, but an elite play-maker. I've long argued against this weird notion that Curry is an elite passer as well. He's an elite play-maker because of his ability to suck in defenders on the perimeter and make correct reads out of traps and double teams, but that doesn't make him elite as a passing PG. And I lol at the people that still maintain guys like Draymond and Anthony Davis are great passers or play-makers.

[HaroldinGMinor]

There is literally one elite passer in NBA history. Yeah, that's right.

[yannisk]

He is a good passer,

when he is in the top of the key all other players are spread around the 3p line so there is no pass available inside. He makes a few nice passes when people cut.
He also makes some very nice cross court passes from the top again for 3p in the corners
When he drives he is a bit bullheaded so his passes delivery is not great
He is great running the transition he always makes the right pass
In the Toronto series he did not pass well out of the double team, Bud should have helped him there with specific team movement

all in all he is a good passer, bordering on the very good, without even considering he is 6''11. It helps that he has so much gravity that there are always some player(s) open. He is not of course a genius passer like Bird or Jokic

[pack15412]

There is literally one elite passer in NBA history. Yeah, that's right.

That man was a magician.