Game 19: Phoenix Suns (8-10) @ Charlotte Hornets (8-13), Monday, 12/2, 5PM MST

[Qwigglez]

For me, it depends how well he can shoot. I don’t particularly like his shot mechanics but if he can knock down shots at a decent clip he could become a very capable PG. Right now it’s hard to predict anything more than a backup PG, but I’m sure Nash, even Dragic had a lot of negative comments in their rookie year. Even Doncic is performing at a level no one thought possible. Not saying Jerome is going to have a career similar to any of these guys but I’m basically done projecting how good a non athletic player can be in the NBA

Maybe PG version of Jared Dudley.

[RiRuHoops]

Saric has been a lot better than Baynes at rebounding, unless you are just talking about boxing out.

obviously there's more to team rebounding than just getting your hands on the ball.

I know, and I think Baynes helps with boxing out, but without Saric right now, our rebounding would suffer greatly.

Man, it's not how it works though. At least on the defensive end

take a look at this page:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2020/on-off/

look at the total team rebounding rate% and the on and off difference.

Baynes has the best team TRB% among the rotation players. His ON/OFF rebounding impact is also joint best with Rubio who's also good at team TRB%. Saric is middle of the pack. But we get killed when Kaminsky is ON. I attribute that to him not playing much with Baynes and playing more when AB is out. Saric probably benefits from starting next to Baynes.

And overall Suns do good when Baynes plays, his ON/OFF impact is only second best to Rubio ( 2 major rotation guys who do very good here). So he's a keeper for sure. Kaminsky's numbers are bad and Tyler's are just terrible. The rest of the team are so so.

[bwgood77]

obviously there's more to team rebounding than just getting your hands on the ball.

I know, and I think Baynes helps with boxing out, but without Saric right now, our rebounding would suffer greatly.

Man, it's not how it works though. At least on the defensive end

take a look at this page:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2020/on-off/

look at the total team rebounding rate% and the on and off difference.

Baynes has the best team TRB% among the rotation players. His ON/OFF rebounding impact is also joint best with Rubio who's also good at team TRB%. Saric is middle of the pack. But we get killed when Kaminsky is ON. I attribute that to him not playing much with Baynes and playing more when AB is out. Saric probably benefits from starting next to Baynes.

And overall Suns do good when Baynes plays, his ON/OFF impact is only second best to Rubio ( 2 major rotation guys who do very good here). So he's a keeper for sure. Kaminsky's numbers are bad and Tyler's are just terrible. The rest of the team are so so.

While I do agree that with Baynes out there, it makes rebounding easier for others, and Rubio especially takes advantage of it at times, I think the numbers you posted are misleading.

Because when Baynes plays, it has always been with Saric..or at least the majority of the time. But when Saric plays, it has been some with Baynes, but also some with Kaminsky as of late, which probably kills his TRB% when on court.

I think if Baynes played half his minutes with Kaminsky and half with Saric but Saric played all of his minutes with Baynes, Saric's TRB% would look better and Baynes' would look worse.

[Dual]

Ricky is questionable for tomorrow with a left hand injury. I remember he did something in 1st half but I thought it wasnt serious.

[RiRuHoops]

While I do agree that with Baynes out there, it makes rebounding easier for others, and Rubio especially takes advantage of it at times, I think the numbers you posted are misleading.

Because when Baynes plays, it has always been with Saric..or at least the majority of the time. But when Saric plays, it has been some with Baynes, but also some with Kaminsky as of late, which probably kills his TRB% when on court.

I think if Baynes played half his minutes with Kaminsky and half with Saric but Saric played all of his minutes with Baynes, Saric's TRB% would look better and Baynes' would look worse.

Come on, Saric is middle of the pack rebounder as a PF. He averages 7 a game with pedestrian personal TRB% of 14. We are not talking Drummond and his 17 rebs here. Saric doesn't make much deference. Kaminsky's personal rebounding #s aren't much different. If he plays with Baynes instead Saric we don't skip a beat on the boards.

[bwgood77]

Ricky is questionable for tomorrow with a left hand injury. I remember he did something in 1st half but I thought it wasnt serious.

This sucks but at least we have Ty back and Elie has looked good. I feel a lot better with Ricky out now than I used to. But if Baynes is out, that really hurts with Ayton out, especially if Diallo is still out too.

Even with Vucevic out, the Magic are huge.

[sunsbg]

Rubio makes the games so much more enjoyable even when he struggles to score. Nice to see Mikal more aggressive and contributing on the offensive end, though finishing in traffic is bad. Needs to improve dribbling in addition to 3pt shooting. Ty was solid. The bench will look great once Ayton is back and he or Baynes run the PnR with Jerome against other 2nd units. Book will be fine, he's a born scorer.

[Jesus_H_Macy]

There are times when he gets mismatches on him and he still looks to pass instead. At least twice today he had Zeller on him and instead of attacking him he tried to run another pick and roll and then passed it.

It’s as if someone told him he’s a ball hog or something so he’s on a mission to prove them wrong this season or something. Whatever it is, he’s gotta snap out of it imo.

There was also that one possession in the 4th where he drove in almost looking like he was just looking to pass and instead of just taking the contested shot, he just ended up turning the ball over. It's like that natural "F it, I'm going to shoot this" mentality he had is not only gone but replaced with a "OK, this is a passing play and passing play only" mentality. It's bizarre how tentative he's become with his shooting.

Yeah it’s as if he’s preplanned what he’s going to do on each possession before the ball even crosses the half court line (pass or shoot) as opposed to taking what the defense gives him and playing based on the situation at hand.

I think you guys are pinning this down better than I was able to. Looking back at those first 10 or so games, Booker was very decisive, whether he was passing or driving or shooting he was making the decision immediately and was making the correct one. He was playing within the offense but still being aggressive. Lately it seems he's holding the ball for longer and then spending time thinking about what the correct play is and then committing to that for better or for worse instead of just making the play that's there. Kind of like we're getting the bad part of hero ball (holding onto the ball too long and bogging down the flow of the offense) but not the good part to balance it out (effective 1-1 scoring). There is still something up with his worsened ability to get to the line this season though that I can't figure out yet. Thought it was the refs giving no respect earlier in the season but it feels like it's persisted too long now to be explained by that.

[lilfishi22]

To me Booker is playing about as balanced as I want him to be -- he just needs to hit shots and use better judgement on passing. I'm glad to see him being forged into a team player rather than a gunner. He's barely worth discussing at this point as he will be totally different when we get centers back setting screens, playing D and getting boards.

He played yesterday a solid game, obviously not a great game by his standards but he didn't have a bad night. The expectations for him are SO HIGH that we probably lose some objectivity about his actual game.

23 points, 4 assists (5 TOs), 4 rebounds, 1 block and 1 steal shooting 7/15 and 6/7 on FTs. Defensively he was OK.

I think we need to remember that he is the focal point of defenses and he attracts too many players creating space just with his presence on the court.
We had a lot of open 3p shots yesterday, but we were trash from distance (9/42).

We need a better second option on offense (Ayton) and he will have more space and time to operate (less TOs). But with what we have for now on the court he is doing his part pretty well IMO.

He's playing very well for a systems player, there's no pushback on that. He's playing a balanced game but he's also playing within the system, almost exclusively. But he's more than just a rotation player, more than just a system player. He's a legit star with the skill set and imo, the mandate to play outside of the system if required. We've seen games where we *needed* him to play outside of the mandate because the system just wasn't generating the shots we needed and this happens from time to time when teams are just focused in to what we're running and are able to disrupt it enough to stop good shots from being created.

That's what we've seen and that's where we need Booker, who is very capable, to play outside of that system to generate offense.

[RiRuHoops]

Ricky is questionable for tomorrow with a left hand injury. I remember he did something in 1st half but I thought it wasnt serious.

He fouled Rozier on a fast break and started grimacing clutching his left hand. It probably got caught on Rozier's jersey. Maybe why he shot like crap the rest of the game. Anyway if it's a finger just tape 2 together and play.

[lilfishi22]

Ricky is questionable for tomorrow with a left hand injury. I remember he did something in 1st half but I thought it wasnt serious.

He fouled Rozier on a fast break and started grimacing clutching his left hand. It probably got caught on Rozier's jersey. Maybe why he shot like crap the rest of the game. Anyway if it's a finger just tape 2 together and play.

He doesn't need to shoot anyway

[PharmD]

Ricky is questionable for tomorrow with a left hand injury. I remember he did something in 1st half but I thought it wasnt serious.

He fouled Rozier on a fast break and started grimacing clutching his left hand. It probably got caught on Rozier's jersey. Maybe why he shot like crap the rest of the game. Anyway if it's a finger just tape 2 together and play.

I don't remember that play but 13 assists 0 turnovers on 1 hand.