MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] - voting reopened

[freethedevil]

"We have to look at everything"

"Harden is MVP because of PPG"

Okay

Harden is putting up elite numbers and has no weakness in his scoring. That's a fact. Its not just "ppg."

I love how players with "weaknesses" like lebron and curry are much more effecient postseason scorers, but "no weakness" harden gets **** on every time he plays an elite defense.


I guess not being valuable off the ball, not having a midrange, and lacking counters aren't weaknesses.

[brettski]

Harden is putting up elite numbers and has no weakness in his scoring. That's a fact. Its not just "ppg."

Well that's why he's in the conversation for MVP. He's been unstoppable on offense

But it makes no sense to say "look at everything" (I'm assuming because you think it's a close race) and choose to discuss FT% instead of...I don't know. Literally anything else that's important? Like team record? How could that not be a bigger difference maker if the race is so close?

Giannis himself is averaging 35/15/7 per 36 to go along with DPOY level defense and he doesn't even half the losses Harden does. If the season ended today, he would be the MVP

Why would you bring up per 36 numbers? You can't just give him numbers that hes not putting up. There's no guarantee that he would do that with more minutes.

Giannis is having an amazing season, no doubt. But you can't ignore Harden scoring at levels we have never seen in the modern era. Its insane.

Bucks are better, but they also play in the East. That has to be taken into account as well.

And Free throw shooting is a part of the game. He's literally shooting like Shaq from the line. Its a huge problem.

But like I said, its close. I'm not saying you're wrong for picking Giannis.

Houston 8-4 vs the west
Bucks 6-1 vs the west

Should we take that into account too? Or just Bucks are in the east so their records better?

[OverAndOut]

It's clearly Giannis

[KGtabake]

Luka can't jump. 18 boards.

[Dupp]

Rebounding isn’t necessarily about leaping ability ...

[KGtabake]

Rebounding isn’t necessarily about leaping ability ...

I agree. Fun aside, what he's doing on boards is impressive for a guy of his physique.

[zonedefense]

Actually think that the poll result isn´t bad.
Giannis
small gap
Luka
bigger gap
LeBron
Harden

Giannis has the edge over Luka because of his defense. He is not as good on offense but being a DPOY candidat makes him the superior player.
Doncic is the best offensive player in the league and carries the worst supporting cast among the top 4.
LeBron is showing that last season was an outlier. Right now I have him below Giannis and Luka but I wouldn´t be suprised if he finds another gear post allstar. Definitely think that he elevates his game in the playoffs but that´s not relevant for the MVP discussion.
Harden is having an all time great scoring season but I canot put him over LeBron or Luka. Luka leads the league leading offense and is a slightly better defender. LeBron might not be as good on offense but is playing the best defense he has played since he left Miami.

If I had to rank them in relation to each other it would be: (offense/defense 1-10)
Giannis (8/9)
Doncic (10/5)
LeBron (7/7)
Harden (9/4)

[Dupp]

Rebounding isn’t necessarily about leaping ability ...

I agree. Fun aside, what he's doing on boards is impressive for a guy of his physique.

He’s just very smart and strong. Rebounding is about instinct as much as anything and he knows how to get in the right position most of the time.

Dude is such a mismatch for anyone trying to guard him. Honestly still can’t believe he’s this good.

[LikeABosh]

If I had to rank them in relation to each other it would be: (offense/defense 1-10)
Giannis (8/9)
Doncic (10/5)
LeBron (7/7)
Harden (9/4)

Harden has got to be a 10 on offense

[zonedefense]

If I had to rank them in relation to each other it would be: (offense/defense 1-10)
Giannis (8/9)
Doncic (10/5)
LeBron (7/7)
Harden (9/4)

Harden has got to be a 10 on offense

Compared to the rest of the league he is a 10. Mind you that a guy like Lillard would be a 6 on offense in this comparisation.
But I have Luka in front of him. If I look at their numbers, supporting cast and team offense. The only thing in Hardens favor is scoring volume. Harden is putting up incredible scoring numbers but overall Luka-ball has the Mavs on pace for the best offense of all time.

[Nightfall]

Thank you for your strawman.

I literally said Harden was putting up historic numbers, and that was my main reason. Can you read?

Yh hardens numbers are historic alright, highest usage ever, most 3 point shot missed, most fg missed, insane turnovers. He sure is historic

LMAOO.

Obviously he has high usage and a high amount of misses. Hes literally putting up 40 points a game.

But yeah "such an easy thing to do."

I'm sure anybody could do something, nobody has been able to do in over 50 years.

Yep another historic 50 PTS game last night.
49 Minutes : 11/38 FG , 4/20 3PT , 24/24 FT (The starting 5 of SA and the rest 4 starting of Houston all together had 27 FTA)
-3 in +- against the Spurs.

But yeah sure , 50 pts Wow

[Alyosha12]

Yh hardens numbers are historic alright, highest usage ever, most 3 point shot missed, most fg missed, insane turnovers. He sure is historic

LMAOO.

Obviously he has high usage and a high amount of misses. Hes literally putting up 40 points a game.

But yeah "such an easy thing to do."

I'm sure anybody could do something, nobody has been able to do in over 50 years.

Yep another historic 50 PTS game last night.
49 Minutes : 11/38 FG , 4/20 3PT , 24/24 FT (The starting 5 of SA and the rest 4 starting of Houston all together had 27 FTA)
-3 in +- against the Spurs.

But yeah sure , 50 pts Wow

Off topic, but who the hell plays their players 50+ mins in a regular season game. D'Antoni really is the king of running players into the ground. It's like, he doesn't understand, that the season doesn't end after 82 games...

[Dupp]

If I had to rank them in relation to each other it would be: (offense/defense 1-10)
Giannis (8/9)
Doncic (10/5)
LeBron (7/7)
Harden (9/4)

Harden has got to be a 10 on offense

Compared to the rest of the league he is a 10. Mind you that a guy like Lillard would be a 6 on offense in this comparisation.
But I have Luka in front of him. If I look at their numbers, supporting cast and team offense. The only thing in Hardens favor is scoring volume. Harden is putting up incredible scoring numbers but overall Luka-ball has the Mavs on pace for the best offense of all time.

Not buying lukas a better player offensivley than harden just yet. But we'll see.

But also hardens cast offensively is complete trash.

[zonedefense]

Harden has got to be a 10 on offense

Compared to the rest of the league he is a 10. Mind you that a guy like Lillard would be a 6 on offense in this comparisation.
But I have Luka in front of him. If I look at their numbers, supporting cast and team offense. The only thing in Hardens favor is scoring volume. Harden is putting up incredible scoring numbers but overall Luka-ball has the Mavs on pace for the best offense of all time.

Not buying lukas a better player offensivley than harden just yet. But we'll see.

But also hardens cast offensively is complete trash.

Trash or a bad fit? Luka can work with a second ballhandler and does more of the ball. There was a great segment on todays postgame show where Isiah Thomas pointed out that Lukas being used as a decoy opens up the floor for his teammates. He plays with the same energy with or witout the ball. Definitely cannot say the same about Harden.
It´s not like KP or THJ are all time great second options. Mavs have the better bench but Capela is by far the best pick and roll option on both teams and Tucker and House have been the best 3-point shooters based on volume and efficiency.

Luka is also more versatile. Can post up, iso and actually is a better pick and roll ballhandler. Maybe I phrased it wrong because Luka obviously still has to prove that he can do it for 82 games but based on everything I have seen this season he has been the best offensive player.

[Vsauce12]

Actually think that the poll result isn´t bad.
Giannis
small gap
Luka
bigger gap
LeBron
Harden

Giannis has the edge over Luka because of his defense. He is not as good on offense but being a DPOY candidat makes him the superior player.
Doncic is the best offensive player in the league and carries the worst supporting cast among the top 4.
LeBron is showing that last season was an outlier. Right now I have him below Giannis and Luka but I wouldn´t be suprised if he finds another gear post allstar. Definitely think that he elevates his game in the playoffs but that´s not relevant for the MVP discussion.
Harden is having an all time great scoring season but I canot put him over LeBron or Luka. Luka leads the league leading offense and is a slightly better defender. LeBron might not be as good on offense but is playing the best defense he has played since he left Miami.

If I had to rank them in relation to each other it would be: (offense/defense 1-10)
Giannis (8/9)
Doncic (10/5)
LeBron (7/7)
Harden (9/4)

Lebron a 7 on defence? Try a 5.5 and harden a 4? Try negative 1

[Yuri36]

If I had to rank them in relation to each other it would be: (offense/defense 1-10)
Giannis (8/9)
Doncic (10/5)
LeBron (7/7)
Harden (9/4)

Harden has got to be a 10 on offense

You realize offense is not only about scoring, right?

[Yuri36]

Harden has got to be a 10 on offense

Compared to the rest of the league he is a 10. Mind you that a guy like Lillard would be a 6 on offense in this comparisation.
But I have Luka in front of him. If I look at their numbers, supporting cast and team offense. The only thing in Hardens favor is scoring volume. Harden is putting up incredible scoring numbers but overall Luka-ball has the Mavs on pace for the best offense of all time.

Not buying lukas a better player offensivley than harden just yet. But we'll see.

But also hardens cast offensively is complete trash.

He is already a far better passer than James Harden is or ever was basing on what we've seen from both so far (and i'm not only looking at stats).

And the "the Harden cast is complete trash" argument in favor of Harden is completely...trash, especially in front of Luka who himself has a weaker cast than him (many pundits/specialists didn't even predict Dallas to make the POs this year ffs while they had Houston high in the West, just behind the 2 LA teams).

[greekbuck34]

Yh hardens numbers are historic alright, highest usage ever, most 3 point shot missed, most fg missed, insane turnovers. He sure is historic

LMAOO.

Obviously he has high usage and a high amount of misses. Hes literally putting up 40 points a game.

But yeah "such an easy thing to do."

I'm sure anybody could do something, nobody has been able to do in over 50 years.

Yep another historic 50 PTS game last night.
49 Minutes : 11/38 FG , 4/20 3PT , 24/24 FT (The starting 5 of SA and the rest 4 starting of Houston all together had 27 FTA)
-3 in +- against the Spurs.

But yeah sure , 50 pts Wow

Everyone can have a bad night but in case of Harden when he sits in front of Rachel Nichols to support his MVP media campaign he will brag about the number of games he had historic 50 and 60 points and in those he will include last nights terrible performance and loss and the 60p he had in a 1st quarter blowout against a tank on the second of a b2b.

Edit:
That's from the official NBA youtube channel.

Watch on YouTube

[XTraderXL]

LMAOO.

Obviously he has high usage and a high amount of misses. Hes literally putting up 40 points a game.

But yeah "such an easy thing to do."

I'm sure anybody could do something, nobody has been able to do in over 50 years.

Yep another historic 50 PTS game last night.
49 Minutes : 11/38 FG , 4/20 3PT , 24/24 FT (The starting 5 of SA and the rest 4 starting of Houston all together had 27 FTA)
-3 in +- against the Spurs.

But yeah sure , 50 pts Wow

Off topic, but who the hell plays their players 50+ mins in a regular season game. D'Antoni really is the king of running players into the ground. It's like, he doesn't understand, that the season doesn't end after 82 games...

Do you really think that MDA would play harden 50 min if it was up to him? Its Harden who wants to play as many minutes as possible to get his numbers. MDA doesnt have much say in all this.

[XTraderXL]

Harden has got to be a 10 on offense

Compared to the rest of the league he is a 10. Mind you that a guy like Lillard would be a 6 on offense in this comparisation.
But I have Luka in front of him. If I look at their numbers, supporting cast and team offense. The only thing in Hardens favor is scoring volume. Harden is putting up incredible scoring numbers but overall Luka-ball has the Mavs on pace for the best offense of all time.

Not buying lukas a better player offensivley than harden just yet. But we'll see.

But also hardens cast offensively is complete trash.

How come then that Dallas was considered not to be a playoff team (8th seed at best) and Houston was considered a top seed (a real contender at best) before the season? Dallas destroyed Houston head to head, Luka ate Hardens lunch and Dallas has the better record. Did Hardens supporting cast all of the sudden become trash?

I think the more realistic explanation is that Luka just makes the whole team better while Harden only makes himself better.