A basketball clinic in Toronto, by James Harden

[zimpy27]

I'm kinda surprised that some of these guys cant break a double team. It seems every time any of the guys get doubled they just pass immediately. I know the Raptors have an elite defense, it's just strange to me. The best of the best can't break a double team.

Sure they could break a double team? But 100% of the time? no.

The better % play is to pass out and rely on your teammates to get it done 4 vs 3. Especially because of how far the double team was from the basket.

[dhsilv2]

Felt like the strategy worked quite well but Toronto just couldn’t get any rebounds or hit a three.

A team averaging 120.8 was held to 119? Not really all that impactful imo.

Thought that was largely due to Toronto turning it over a lot and them bricking wide open threes, which are effectively live-ball turnovers. But in the half court set, didn’t see HOuston having much success. Russ is a liability on offense when he’s on the weak side and Raps were inviting the Rockets to pass it to him.

A lot of those turnovers were in part because they were tired from having to recover on defense and Harden was fresh and able to maximize his skill as a "free safety"

[dhsilv2]

I'm kinda surprised that some of these guys cant break a double team. It seems every time any of the guys get doubled they just pass immediately. I know the Raptors have an elite defense, it's just strange to me. The best of the best can't break a double team.

Sure they could break a double team? But 100% of the time? no.

The better % play is to pass out and rely on your teammates to get it done 4 vs 3. Especially because of how far the double team was from the basket.

I don't get why people want stars to always play hero ball. Harden get so much crap for making the right basketball play and not scoring when his team looses and then gets called a ball hog when they win on his shooting lights out.

How hard is to for people to accept that making good basketball plays leads to wins more often than not, but sometimes you still lose making smart plays and GASP...it's not the star's fault for making the play.

[clyde21]

Good post.

Most gravity I have ever seen by a player.

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[Colbinii]

Good post.

Most gravity I have ever seen by a player.

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A picture of a player driving and getting 3 guys on him. Wow!

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[clyde21]

Good post.

Most gravity I have ever seen by a player.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

A picture of a player driving and getting 3 guys on him. Wow!

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

[Peregrine01]

A team averaging 120.8 was held to 119? Not really all that impactful imo.

Thought that was largely due to Toronto turning it over a lot and them bricking wide open threes, which are effectively live-ball turnovers. But in the half court set, didn’t see HOuston having much success. Russ is a liability on offense when he’s on the weak side and Raps were inviting the Rockets to pass it to him.

A lot of those turnovers were in part because they were tired from having to recover on defense and Harden was fresh and able to maximize his skill as a "free safety"

That’s a bit of a stretch. Most turnovers were of the unforced nature. When you’re missing open threes, you tend to force the action more which tends to lead to more turnovers.

[The_Hater]

Boxscores will never tell the whole story.

James in Toronto

Only 6 free throws attempted.
Only 11 shots attempted.
Only 23 points.
Team season low 19 free throw attempts.

Not scoring didn't seem to bother him. Didn't force anything.

--- double-teamed all game* (when he wasn't, he casually murdered them, reminding them why he was doubled in the first place)
--- reads the game perfectly
--- trusts teammates
--- teammates take advantage, move the ball, feast on corner 3s
--- bonus: with James just chilling on offense by not forcing things, he had more energy to play solid d = strong in the post vs Siakam, free safety role (5 steals), takes charges

*obviously a terrible plan. You cannot play 3x4 all game long. I was shocked that Nurse didn't adapt.

Click clips below if you will.

Spoiler:

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Unsurprisingly, you can then verify the impact of that failed defense.

Passing
Team average: 244.7
Last night: 328.0

Catch & shoot
Average : 30.0 pts/ 53.8 efg%
Last night: 62 pts / 60.8 efg%

91% of 3pointers were assisted.

23.47% of the shots were corner 3s (usually 12.65% on the season)

Remember, James is doing all of this playing along side a player who bricks wide open 3s (when he doesn't refuse to shoot them). And bonus---bennyhillthemesong

Spoiler:

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

I disagree that it was a terrible plan, the final score shouldn’t always dictate if the strategy was good or bad. You pick your poison on defense and the Raps forced the lesser players to make plays, same strategy they used successfully in previous games all season to take the ball out of the opposing superstars hands. In this case those players moved the ball well and made plays, except for Westbrook who was pretty bad.

The bigger reasons the Raptors lost were poor offense on their part and terrible rebounding, not because they took Harden out of the game.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Adam Silver should make it a rule that every team must trap James Harden so we don't have to sit and watch him shoot free throws all day. That would help improve ratings.

[GordanFreeman]

Harden’s a damn good player.

[red96]

Good post.

Most gravity I have ever seen by a player.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

That man can't state his opinion? Lolz.

[Colbinii]

Good post.

Most gravity I have ever seen by a player.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

That man can't state his opinion? Lolz.

Not if the opinion isn't
"I agree with Clyde because Clyde is the smartest and most knowledgeable poster on this board".

Only then is my opinion valid.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

[Dr Spaceman]

Good post.

Most gravity I have ever seen by a player.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

peak Curry, Shaq, and Dirk probably all have games meeting or exceeding this in that regard.

Not to take away from Harden's influence last night--I just reflexively push back against these types of immediate reactions--sorry.

Dirk definitely did in at least 1 series I remember. Scott Brooks stupidly refused to double team Dirk but in the Finals Miami sent 2 on the ball which is why if you watch that Series Dirk was immediately putting the ball on the floor as he caught it to try to make a play despite his usual tendency to hold and wait for soemthing to develop. JVG pointed it out on the broadcast at one point.

Back when 2 traditional bigs were common Curry used to see traps a lot on pick and roll because the idea was he’d be too small to slip the pass to Draymond. Teams started just playing small and switching him in the playoffs though.

I will say what’s different about Harden’s situation is he’s not even in good scoring position. They’re just straight up not letting him dribble in the half court. other guys get double teams in different situations but this is different. I have not seen a team just try to completely ice a guy out of the offense.

[clyde21]

That man can't state his opinion? Lolz.

Not if the opinion isn't
"I agree with Clyde because Clyde is the smartest and most knowledgeable poster on this board".

Only then is my opinion valid.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

i just think its a hyperbolic statement

[Colbinii]

That man can't state his opinion? Lolz.

Not if the opinion isn't
"I agree with Clyde because Clyde is the smartest and most knowledgeable poster on this board".

Only then is my opinion valid.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

i just think its a hyperbolic statement

"Most gravity I have ever seen"

I have never seen a player consistently double teamed 40 feet from the hoop for an entire game.

The images you showed are Curry in or near the paint.


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[AbeVigodaLive]

Will be interesting to see if (1) other teams employ something similar vs. the Rockets and (2) what tweaks can be made to make it better (3) and whether the Rockets handle it as well as they did last night.

As with any new gimmick or strategy, it can take time to get it right.

Houston fans should be entirely optimistic right now though.

[clyde21]

Not if the opinion isn't
"I agree with Clyde because Clyde is the smartest and most knowledgeable poster on this board".

Only then is my opinion valid.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

i just think its a hyperbolic statement

"Most gravity I have ever seen"

I have never seen a player consistently double teamed 40 feet from the hoop for an entire game.

The images you showed are Curry in or near the paint.


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that's exactly my point, teams have been trapping Curry as soon as he crosses half court the last 6 years, where have you been?

[Texas Chuck]

I don't want to get into this, but if you all recall at Davidson Curry was literally double teamed an entire game, even when he did not have the ball and so he simply stood far away out of the action and the game really was played 4 on 3.

I realize that was college, but this is not nearly as unprecedented as is being made out, but it's easy to be a prisoner of the moment. We all need to step back and take a breath before declaring anything so categorically.

Or to suggest that because Dirk didn't rack up assists that he didn't have insane gravity or because Shaq literally required a double or more on every play that he didn't have insane gravity because it didn't happen 40 feet from the basket.

This was a unique defense and Harden has exceptional gravity every time he plays. He belongs in any discussion of the greatest offensive players of all-time. But this game isn't some outlier in NBA history by any means.

[dhsilv2]

Thought that was largely due to Toronto turning it over a lot and them bricking wide open threes, which are effectively live-ball turnovers. But in the half court set, didn’t see HOuston having much success. Russ is a liability on offense when he’s on the weak side and Raps were inviting the Rockets to pass it to him.

A lot of those turnovers were in part because they were tired from having to recover on defense and Harden was fresh and able to maximize his skill as a "free safety"

That’s a bit of a stretch. Most turnovers were of the unforced nature. When you’re missing open threes, you tend to force the action more which tends to lead to more turnovers.

Tired legs miss 3's too. The raptors take 36-37 3's a game and took 39 in this game. They shot poorly 31% vs 39% on the season, but we're talking just a few extra long rebounds here.

Now I just caught the 4th so I didn't see the whole game, but looked to me like the rockets were for the most part when they gave up a good look, it was more guys like OG who I think are a bit more suspect as shooters (though going into the game he was shooting lights out). Now of course, those shots fall, OG hits all his 3's or most and sure we might have a different outcome. Either way I don't see the raptor's offense as having been that bad given how hard they were working on defense.

[dhsilv2]

Not if the opinion isn't
"I agree with Clyde because Clyde is the smartest and most knowledgeable poster on this board".

Only then is my opinion valid.

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

i just think its a hyperbolic statement

"Most gravity I have ever seen"

I have never seen a player consistently double teamed 40 feet from the hoop for an entire game.

The images you showed are Curry in or near the paint.


Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

Did you watch the finals?