2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 1)

[robillionaire]

After taking a look at the 2021 Draft, I'm actually hoping for Wiseman now. We can hopefully get Wiseman this year and one of Green/Cunningham/Green next year

Or Edwards and take a PG next year

And since that’s just one more year without a PG so you know it’s another top 5 pick in 2021

[TheScout31]

Apologies in advance, I do not really follow college hoops nor prospects too much. Can someone tell me what Wiseman's strengths and weaknesses are? I've just watched a highlights video of him posting a 28/11/3 line, but he didn't really show anything in that video that DeAndre Jordan can't do. If you could give me a quick recap of why he's so highly touted, I'd appreciate it.

Strength: size/measurements, straight line speed (he's a gazelle), pop when he has time to load, maybe long term shooting ability (C&S, maybe??), rim protection when he sees play, and rebounding.

Weaknesses: lateral movement (stiff hips, doesn't turn well), does not have much vertical pop in tight spaces, poor shot IQ and thinks he's a really skilled offensive player (he's not), poor passing feel, defensive IQ still needs work (though 2 games it looked better than the low bar he set in HS, lol), and not a fan of his touch in paint.

He's only highly touted by those who haven't done much HW - he's not as highly touted by those who've done extensive scouting. That's basically a quick strength/weakness.

DX scouts for a living and they are very high on him. So I am not sure why you would say that.

And a lot of the weaknesses you listed are from high school. I’ve yet to see any poor shot IQ or passing in college. And he is a much better defender than he was in high school as well. He is too jumpy and sometimes misses rotations but his motor has been great for the most part. I’d bet on him improving given his improvements and work ethic.

I love the DX guys, but a) they take into consideration RSCI, hype, what they hear from teams, and hype and b) there are some questions about other things that may influence the rankings.

The shot IQ came out in the turnaround jumper he had from the FT line, the lack of hip mobility popped when he was switched onto the ballhandler at the FT line (and just his general non-straight line movements), and he didn't pass when he had the ball (off the top of my head). The athletic limitations he has moving laterally are big, and, sure, if you keep him to a tiny role of paint and in he's fine - but trying to expand that role and giving him more free reign is a bad idea. Then there is the question of value from true, drop back bigs (which he is).

There is room to grow, but the hype really shouldn't be there. He played two games in college - until he proves consistently he changed, or at least has made big improvements over a longer period of time, basing a report on his HS games and AAU games (Tshweibe shut him down, IIRC) vs blowouts against non-competitions is fair game IMO.

I'm confident in everything I have said and I know other scouts I've spoken / text with feel the same, but we'll see how he progresses if / when he comes back. I know he's your guy, but we'll see - I'm still in the note taking part of my reports, so everyone's report can change.

[Sethaholic16]

http://www.tankathon.com/players/kevin-knox

Revisiting the advanced metrics of Knox pre-draft...holy crap was he bad. Basically everything is red and the only positive is draft age.

[Worst_to_First]

Apologies in advance, I do not really follow college hoops nor prospects too much. Can someone tell me what Wiseman's strengths and weaknesses are? I've just watched a highlights video of him posting a 28/11/3 line, but he didn't really show anything in that video that DeAndre Jordan can't do. If you could give me a quick recap of why he's so highly touted, I'd appreciate it.

Strength: size/measurements, straight line speed (he's a gazelle), pop when he has time to load, maybe long term shooting ability (C&S, maybe??), rim protection when he sees play, and rebounding.

Weaknesses: lateral movement (stiff hips, doesn't turn well), does not have much vertical pop in tight spaces, poor shot IQ and thinks he's a really skilled offensive player (he's not), poor passing feel, defensive IQ still needs work (though 2 games it looked better than the low bar he set in HS, lol), and not a fan of his touch in paint.

He's only highly touted by those who haven't done much HW - he's not as highly touted by those who've done extensive scouting. That's basically a quick strength/weakness.

DX scouts for a living and they are very high on him. So I am not sure why you would say that.

And a lot of the weaknesses you listed are from high school. I’ve yet to see any poor shot IQ or passing in college. And he is a much better defender than he was in high school as well. He is too jumpy and sometimes misses rotations but his motor has been great for the most part. I’d bet on him improving given his improvements and work ethic.

Yes can’t help but smh on that statement as well.

Ultimately it boils down to work ethic to me as well as attitude. Wiseman is a guy who has been aware on his weaknesses, humble enough to acknowledge this and has worked diligently on fixing the issues. I really like the kid’s attitude and has a genuine desire to be great.

Motor is said to be one thing that is difficult to fix but is one thing that Wiseman has addressed in terms of scouts’ initial concerns on this. It was also very telling on me how he handled losing a game wherein his missed FT’s cost his team a game.

[Dave DaButcher]

Rather than wasting time continuing to suffer with the current roster, seems it’s time to start focusing more on the draft and hopes for a savior. With that in mind, could anyone who’s been doing that work perhaps offer some reasonable NBA comps for the likely top 5-7 picks.

I recognize this is very speculative for 18-19 year olds, and also apt to change as the sample size of games grows over the season. But I was hoping to start framing how to think about some of these kids. Thanks in advance.

[3toheadmelo]

Strength: size/measurements, straight line speed (he's a gazelle), pop when he has time to load, maybe long term shooting ability (C&S, maybe??), rim protection when he sees play, and rebounding.

Weaknesses: lateral movement (stiff hips, doesn't turn well), does not have much vertical pop in tight spaces, poor shot IQ and thinks he's a really skilled offensive player (he's not), poor passing feel, defensive IQ still needs work (though 2 games it looked better than the low bar he set in HS, lol), and not a fan of his touch in paint.

He's only highly touted by those who haven't done much HW - he's not as highly touted by those who've done extensive scouting. That's basically a quick strength/weakness.

DX scouts for a living and they are very high on him. So I am not sure why you would say that.

And a lot of the weaknesses you listed are from high school. I’ve yet to see any poor shot IQ or passing in college. And he is a much better defender than he was in high school as well. He is too jumpy and sometimes misses rotations but his motor has been great for the most part. I’d bet on him improving given his improvements and work ethic.

I love the DX guys, but a) they take into consideration RSCI, hype, what they hear from teams, and hype and b) there are some questions about other things that may influence the rankings.

The shot IQ came out in the turnaround jumper he had from the FT line, the lack of hip mobility popped when he was switched onto the ballhandler at the FT line (and just his general non-straight line movements), and he didn't pass when he had the ball (off the top of my head). The athletic limitations he has moving laterally are big, and, sure, if you keep him to a tiny role of paint and in he's fine - but trying to expand that role and giving him more free reign is a bad idea. Then there is the question of value from true, drop back bigs (which he is).

There is room to grow, but the hype really shouldn't be there. He played two games in college - until he proves consistently he changed, or at least has made big improvements over a longer period of time, basing a report on his HS games and AAU games (Tshweibe shut him down, IIRC) vs blowouts against non-competitions is fair game IMO.

I'm confident in everything I have said and I know other scouts I've spoken / text with feel the same, but we'll see how he progresses if / when he comes back. I know he's your guy, but we'll see - I'm still in the note taking part of my reports, so everyone's report can change.

Imo I think it’s unfair to base him on high school stuff because he looks improved since then. I really liked what I saw from the first two games and he looks like he has the potential to be a franchise big. Good thing he gets to play next month and isn’t out for the rest of the season so we’ll see if he has truly changed or not. If he reverts to bad habits on both ends from high school then I am with you and will change my opinion on him.

[Spree2Houston]

After taking a look at the 2021 Draft, I'm actually hoping for Wiseman now. We can hopefully get Wiseman this year and one of Green/Cunningham/Green next year

Or Edwards and take a PG next year

And since that’s just one more year without a PG so you know it’s another top 5 pick in 2021

Or Edwards at the 1 and Green at the 2?

[Fat]

edwards not a point guard you cant give him those duties right off the rip. Put him at the 2 and move RJ to the 3. RJ is a 3 at heart anyway

[robillionaire]

edwards not a point guard you cant give him those duties right off the rip. Put him at the 2 and move RJ to the 3. RJ is a 3 at heart anyway

This and just use Frank and a vet stopgap until we can get a real starting PG. *ducks* But I agree, RJ should be playing the 3 and he and Edwards would be 2 and 3.

[knickstape21]

Count me in on Mannion.

Love the uptempo pace he plays with. It’s composed and in control. Such a good passer/shooter and seems to have taken a leadership roles early with Arizona.

Size is a little worrisome, especially on defense, but he at least competes on that end and that’s enough for me.

[HEZI]

Another meh game for Nico. Not gonna pretend I watched it but just checked the boxscore. Its hard not to like Nico but I have doubts about him as a NBA starter

[robillionaire]

Another meh game for Nico. Not gonna pretend I watched it but just checked the boxscore. Its hard not to like Nico but I have doubts about him as a NBA starter

I watched it. Wasn’t that impressive. Announcers were criticizing him for not being physical and not trying to get rebounds like cole Anthony does and said he needs more effort if he wants to be worth a top 5 pick. It was just one game though. Kinda harsh

[HEZI]

Another meh game for Nico. Not gonna pretend I watched it but just checked the boxscore. Its hard not to like Nico but I have doubts about him as a NBA starter

I watched it. Wasn’t that impressive. Announcers were criticizing him for not being physical and not trying to get rebounds like cole Anthony does and said he needs more effort if he wants to be worth a top 5 pick. It was just one game though. Kinda harsh

He was pretty bad last game too, wasn't he? Again, didn't watch it but box score checking

Kinda unfair to ask him to be Cole, they are different players in their own right and asking Nico to rebound the ball like Cole is unfair as even Roy said Cole is the best rebounding guard he's ever seen. That's not fair. Nico has his strengths but it doesn't look like he's even been maximizing those strengths over the last couple games but I'm not going to say it's on him. Arizona has also lost quite a bit of talent over the years so I'm not sure how good they are this year. I still think Nico is a good player though, but it's his NBA potential that I'm still unsure of. I'm thinking more quality NBA backup guard than quality NBA starter at the moment

[aggo]

Nico worries me. I think he's got a higher ceiling than Cole but a lower floor.

I would be scared to take him over Cole or Edwards.

But if we had the 5th-8th pick I would be ecstatic.

[3toheadmelo]

Nico has been injured all week. He shouldn't have played today

[Chanel Bomber]

http://www.tankathon.com/players/kevin-knox

Revisiting the advanced metrics of Knox pre-draft...holy crap was he bad. Basically everything is red and the only positive is draft age.

This corroborates my initial intuition that this front office doesn't embrace or trust analytics. This year they said they drafted Brazzers in the second round because their analytics department supported the pick, which is the equivalent of throwing them (and us) a bone. Have us believe you actually care about analytics with a second-round pick but not take them into consideration at all when making important roster decisions.

This front office is light years behind the rest of the NBA. A common thread with all the executives that Dolan has picked over the years, which might be the root of all our problems.

And yes Knox is awful. Don't expect that to change.

[Chanel Bomber]

Also I don't want a big, neither do I want anything to do with another non-shooter.

Not that interested in Wiseman or Lamelo. Give me a guard with a solid FT% who can play on and off the ball.

[3toheadmelo]

Yikes. Hopefully he gets better

Read on Twitter

[semjazy]

Yikes. Hopefully he gets better

Read on Twitter

Yeah. He was my number one target before season. But his shooting splits are just terrible. If you also take into conseridation that he is year and couple months older than both Lamelo and Edwards, there is no way I would take him over them.

[camby23]

After taking a look at the 2021 Draft, I'm actually hoping for Wiseman now. We can hopefully get Wiseman this year and one of Green/Cunningham/Green next year

Or Edwards and take a PG next year

And since that’s just one more year without a PG so you know it’s another top 5 pick in 2021

If we draft Wiseman we can trade Robinson for some solid PG.