The Ben Simmons Megathread - Part III

[Bum Adebayo]

I agree, Embiid is likely done improving significantly. But, the thing is, he is a much better player than he was in college, whereas that's not the case with Simmons. So one can say Embiid will peak at a later point than Simmons. The complaint about Simmons is that he has barely improved since college. Embiid has stopped improving since maybe 2nd or 3rd year of NBA, and that was at a much older age than Simmons, who was like 19 years old in college.

[Eyeamok]

I'm worried fultz will better than simmons when this season ends, broken shot and all..

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Yeah but what were the 76ers going to to with Fultz? What were his issues. Where they physical / emotionally (maturity)/ mentally (not ready for the big leagues?). Not only was management trying to give him all the leeway possible but they were also dealing with being blindsided by his agent. His playing in a few weeks no he is not. What were you going to do with that? And honestly as much as I hate to admit it. Dorris Burke said it best. He's a young man that needs to be in a low pressure situation where he can grow. Process 76ers were perfect for this, 76ers trying to win a title were not.

That draft was strange. If we had stayed at #3 perhaps Fultz would have just fallen to us. Or maybe we would have taken Josh Jackson, who is doing quite well in the G-league now, should see him back playing NBA games soon. Or Dennis Smith, Monk. ETC
It was a crazy draft where the 76ers picked the most fragile emotional guy and this is the result.

[Kobblehead]

Yeah, Joel arrived at stardom right away. Peaked at MVP candidate and then regressed back down but remained at stardom.

Ben hasn't even arrived at stardom. He peaked as a role player and has been on the same plateau ever since.

[Eyeamok]

which makes you wonder how the conversation went when he signed his extension. Were talks of improvement and how to improve part of the conversation? Or was it "Here have your agent look this over then sign it. Enjoy the off season!"

[phillynative]

Joel came into league not really having any holes in his game but also not being great at anything. You can tell even now that he likes and want to be able to do it all. He needs to focus exclusively on something thats going to take his game to the next level whether its go-to-shot or getting in the best shape in his life.

I believe IMO thats where Ben differs. I think he was ok with being great at somethings and maybe just ok at others. He came into the league already as a really good passer and fastbreak player. I also think he likes to focus on one part of his game at a time, the problem is I dont see which part of his game that had improved other than his defense which he has always has the tools .

Maybe finding success so early has hurt them both developmental. We can only hope that the growing pains they have experience lately will let them know they have much more work to do to be as great as they thought they already were..

[sodmoraes]

I'm worried fultz will better than simmons when this season ends, broken shot and all..

Sent from my SM-G920I using RealGM mobile app

Yeah but what were the 76ers going to to with Fultz? What were his issues. Where they physical / emotionally (maturity)/ mentally (not ready for the big leagues?). Not only was management trying to give him all the leeway possible but they were also dealing with being blindsided by his agent. His playing in a few weeks no he is not. What were you going to do with that? And honestly as much as I hate to admit it. Dorris Burke said it best. He's a young man that needs to be in a low pressure situation where he can grow. Process 76ers were perfect for this, 76ers trying to win a title were not.

That draft was strange. If we had stayed at #3 perhaps Fultz would have just fallen to us. Or maybe we would have taken Josh Jackson, who is doing quite well in the G-league now, should see him back playing NBA games soon. Or Dennis Smith, Monk. ETC
It was a crazy draft where the 76ers picked the most fragile emotional guy and this is the result.

You are right, orlando ia a good place to him, since it´s low pressure. But i get angry thinking what we could have been if fultz didnt forget how to shoot... Probably he would be the pg and Simmons would slide to power forward? Even with his broken shot, you see that he can impact the game in so many ways. I think next year he will probably be a better shooter( 30% 3pt?), and he can be a fringe allstar. Highlights from yesterday:

Watch on YouTube

It seems he´s getting more confortable with that midrange shot, and he´s pretty good going to the rim( and creating opportunities to other players).

[thenbaman]

Ben simmons won the last three games for us,focus on what the guy dose well
every single game ,wow

[sodmoraes]

Ben simmons won the last three games for us,focus on what the guy dose well
every single game ,wow

If bum simmons shot the bal like a normal basketball playerl we would have won this games way more easily, but he´s a special snowflake who can´t be bothered to shoot a ball.

[kuclas]

Simmons would have been great on those golden state teams like draymond Green. Where they had mutiple ball handlers. But Ben like draymond is best free lancing on offense. No structure. And on defense. Just be beast.

But like draymond. Ben is exposed for offensive flaws. And can’t be the primary offensive ball handler in the half court set. He just can’t.

[Stanford]

The general board thread on Ben's defense is wild.

[76ciology]

There’s no style of basketball where ben makes sense. And 85 pages in and not being able to figure it out, pretty much explains it. We have discussed everything including him being a center.

[youngcrev]

There’s no style of basketball where ben makes sense. And 85 pages in and not being able to figure it out, pretty much explains it. We have discussed everything including him being a center.

Huh?

[Kobblehead]

I think I have it all figured out for someone like Giannis and Zion.

Have them play with a stretch 5 for 60-70% of their minutes and have them play smallball 5 for 30-40% of their minutes.

The problem is that Ben isn't good enough. What's he down to now, 13 ppg? He's a role player. He can't carry a star scoring load so there's no point in even thinking about building around him. He's a basic role player.

[DaSixers]

Lmfao no embiid or jrich AGAIN tomorrow so another loss plus toronto loss.

Simmons will just fling the ball around after going out of control in the paint and be awful on offense

So sick of this team.

[zimpy27]

I think I have it all figured out for someone like Giannis and Zion.

Have them play with a stretch 5 for 60-70% of their minutes and have them play smallball 5 for 30-40% of their minutes.

The problem is that Ben isn't good enough. What's he down to now, 13 ppg? He's a role player. He can't carry a star scoring load so there's no point in even thinking about building around him. He's a basic role player.

The number of appearances a player made in top 5-man lineups (minimum 10 minutes):

top 4: Simmons 3 | Embiid 1 | Harris 3 | Horford 3 | Richardson 2
top 8: Simmons 7 | Embiid 2 | Harris 7 | Horford 7 | Richardson 1
top 12: Simmons 10 | Embiid 6 | Harris 10 | Horford 8 | Richardson 5

So far this season the most dynamic and positive teammates appear to be Simmons and Harris, closely followed by Horford.


More broadly all the starters appear good, the problem the 76ers have is depth. The bench is bad, we knew that coming into the season. Bad benches hurt you more in the RS than the PS.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I think I have it all figured out for someone like Giannis and Zion.

Have them play with a stretch 5 for 60-70% of their minutes and have them play smallball 5 for 30-40% of their minutes.

The problem is that Ben isn't good enough. What's he down to now, 13 ppg? He's a role player. He can't carry a star scoring load so there's no point in even thinking about building around him. He's a basic role player.

He's too self conscious, there's really no reason why he can't emulate a lot of what Westbrook did. If he had a change of mindset and decided that he wanted to score more often I think he could, but he's just not aggressive. Everyone thinks that you need 4 shooters around Giannis for him to score, but in that last season with Jason Kidd he played in a frontcourt with John Henson and still averaged 26.9ppg and while I know that Simmons isn't the same level of athlete as Giannis in terms of length, he should still be able to reproduce 75-80% of that production if he were just aggressive.

I think his mindset is the biggest problem, not the lack of shot or willingness to shoot it, but the fact he just won't even try to impose his will on the game scoring is a very bad sign. In 180 games he's only taken 18 or more shots 11 times (4 times with 20 or more shots), for reference DeAndre Ayton has done that 7 times already (2 times with 20 or more), and that's a big who has the ball a fraction of the time Simmons has it. Somebody needs to get in his head and tell him it's ok to be selfish sometimes, it's ok to try and force the issue to draw fouls and look for your own chance to score. If he had Westbrooks unwavering confidence and aggressiveness he'd probably be a 21-23ppg even with his offensive limitations, someone that big and that coordinated should be able to score even by accident.

[youngcrev]

I think I have it all figured out for someone like Giannis and Zion.

Have them play with a stretch 5 for 60-70% of their minutes and have them play smallball 5 for 30-40% of their minutes.

The problem is that Ben isn't good enough. What's he down to now, 13 ppg? He's a role player. He can't carry a star scoring load so there's no point in even thinking about building around him. He's a basic role player.

The number of appearances a player made in top 5-man lineups (minimum 10 minutes):

top 4: Simmons 3 | Embiid 1 | Harris 3 | Horford 3 | Richardson 2
top 8: Simmons 7 | Embiid 2 | Harris 7 | Horford 7 | Richardson 1
top 12: Simmons 10 | Embiid 6 | Harris 10 | Horford 8 | Richardson 5

So far this season the most dynamic and positive teammates appear to be Simmons and Harris, closely followed by Horford.


More broadly all the starters appear good, the problem the 76ers have is depth. The bench is bad, we knew that coming into the season. Bad benches hurt you more in the RS than the PS.

Seems like a strange way to evaluate effectiveness. Harris and Simmons lead the team in minutes. Check the bottom 5-man lineups to play at least 10 minutes. I bet they appear in there a lot too.

The individual net ratings of the starters is actually the opposite. Jo has the highest, Ben has the lowest.

[zimpy27]

I think I have it all figured out for someone like Giannis and Zion.

Have them play with a stretch 5 for 60-70% of their minutes and have them play smallball 5 for 30-40% of their minutes.

The problem is that Ben isn't good enough. What's he down to now, 13 ppg? He's a role player. He can't carry a star scoring load so there's no point in even thinking about building around him. He's a basic role player.

The number of appearances a player made in top 5-man lineups (minimum 10 minutes):

top 4: Simmons 3 | Embiid 1 | Harris 3 | Horford 3 | Richardson 2
top 8: Simmons 7 | Embiid 2 | Harris 7 | Horford 7 | Richardson 3
top 12: Simmons 10 | Embiid 6 | Harris 10 | Horford 8 | Richardson 5

So far this season the most dynamic and positive teammates appear to be Simmons and Harris, closely followed by Horford.


More broadly all the starters appear good, the problem the 76ers have is depth. The bench is bad, we knew that coming into the season. Bad benches hurt you more in the RS than the PS.

Seems like a strange way to evaluate effectiveness. Harris and Simmons lead the team in minutes. Check the bottom 5-man lineups to play at least 10 minutes. I bet they appear in there a lot too.

The individual net ratings of the starters is actually the opposite. Jo has the highest, Ben has the lowest.

Well, it's not measuring effectiveness, it's crudely trying to show level of diversity. You're right, minutes does affect it and I couldn't be bothered putting work into making a distribution.

Here is the same concept in reverse. Simmons and Richardson are even, Horford and Harris are skewed positive, Embiid is skewed negative.

bottom 4: Simmons 3 | Embiid 3 | Harris 2 | Horford 1 | Richardson 1
bottom 8: Simmons 6 | Embiid 4 | Harris 5 | Horford 4 | Richardson 3
bottom 12: Simmons 9 | Embiid 7 | Harris 8 | Horford 7 | Richardson 6

You use on/off but a starter that has less minutes plays a higher proportion with better players so that would skew they're on/off higher as well.

Regardless, this wasn't about Embiid (though) it's interesting. It's about Simmons being spread across many useful lineups. I don't think it's right to give up on Ben.

[youngcrev]

The number of appearances a player made in top 5-man lineups (minimum 10 minutes):

top 4: Simmons 3 | Embiid 1 | Harris 3 | Horford 3 | Richardson 2
top 8: Simmons 7 | Embiid 2 | Harris 7 | Horford 7 | Richardson 3
top 12: Simmons 10 | Embiid 6 | Harris 10 | Horford 8 | Richardson 5

So far this season the most dynamic and positive teammates appear to be Simmons and Harris, closely followed by Horford.


More broadly all the starters appear good, the problem the 76ers have is depth. The bench is bad, we knew that coming into the season. Bad benches hurt you more in the RS than the PS.

Seems like a strange way to evaluate effectiveness. Harris and Simmons lead the team in minutes. Check the bottom 5-man lineups to play at least 10 minutes. I bet they appear in there a lot too.

The individual net ratings of the starters is actually the opposite. Jo has the highest, Ben has the lowest.

Well, it's not measuring effectiveness, it's crudely trying to show level of diversity. You're right, minutes does affect it and I couldn't be bothered putting work into making a distribution.

Here is the same concept in reverse. Simmons and Richardson are even, Horford and Harris are skewed positive, Embiid is skewed negative.

bottom 4: Simmons 3 | Embiid 3 | Harris 2 | Horford 1 | Richardson 1
bottom 8: Simmons 6 | Embiid 4 | Harris 5 | Horford 4 | Richardson 3
bottom 12: Simmons 9 | Embiid 7 | Harris 8 | Horford 7 | Richardson 6

You use on/off but a starter that has less minutes plays a higher proportion with better players so that would skew they're on/off higher as well.

Regardless, this wasn't about Embiid (though) it's interesting. It's about Simmons being spread across many useful lineups. I don't think it's right to give up on Ben.

I don't think they should give up on Ben either, but I'm saying I don't think this is all that meaningful. He plays a lot of minutes, and therefore shows up in a lot of the individual lineups, both good and bad. I also don't think it's all that meaningful because of the sample size you are looking at with most of these lineups. If you switch your criteria to lineups that have played at least 30 minutes together, Ben, Tobias and Horford appear in every single one.

[76ciology]

There’s no style of basketball where ben makes sense. And 85 pages in and not being able to figure it out, pretty much explains it. We have discussed everything including him being a center.

Huh?

He’s ineffective as a PG.
he can’t space the floor as a wing
He’s too soft to play defense as a big.

Play fast and he passes the ball too much on transition
Play slow and he clogs the paint

Page 85 and we’re talking about what’s the best style for ben