MVP Discussion [19/20] [part I] - voting reopened

[clyde21]

And they could be picking top 10 with him. He's not a serious candidate

lol, per all box scores, metrics, advanced stats he is very much a serious candidate actually.

A serious candidate to win it? Oh boy

That'll be the day. Towns beats out historical seasons by Giannis, Harden, and Luka with a losing record

Towns is having a great year. His 3 pt shooting as a big is incredible. But he'll never ever win it if he has no team success. Who are you trying to fool? Nobody would believe he's an MVP regardless of his sexy advanced stats

99% of the time you make a lot of sense. But that 1% of the time, you say the most bizare things

that explains why I have him #3 right now, no? but yes, he's a serious candidate because there's still PLENTY of time to go to get his Ws up, obviously. the season doesn't end tomorrow.

[igorbianch]

yes?

26/12/4.5 with 1.5bpg on 66 TS%

5th in VORP
4th in BPM
6th in WS
5th in PER

the Wolves would be picking top3 in the draft without Towns

He plays no defense...

Great offensive player, but the biggest value that big men provide is defense, and he is terrible at that.

He could compensate that by being the team's playmaker like Jokic, but he isnt either.

have you been watching him? he's been great defensively this year. and if we're talking about 'plays no defense'...maybe we should also remove Luka from this thread?

and he's not just a great offensive player...he's an ELITE offensive player, one of the best 3 level scoring Centers we've ever seen, if not the best.

He isn’t playing elite defense. Not even close. Minny has the #20 defense in the league.

The difference between Luka/Harden and KAT is that they’re not only elite scorers, they’re elite playmakers as well and both of them can carry an offense.

Mavs has the #1 offense in the league by a huge margin. Timberwolves has the #17 offense in the league.

[clyde21]

He plays no defense...

Great offensive player, but the biggest value that big men provide is defense, and he is terrible at that.

He could compensate that by being the team's playmaker like Jokic, but he isnt either.

have you been watching him? he's been great defensively this year. and if we're talking about 'plays no defense'...maybe we should also remove Luka from this thread?

and he's not just a great offensive player...he's an ELITE offensive player, one of the best 3 level scoring Centers we've ever seen, if not the best.

He isn’t playing elite defense. Not even close. Minny has the #20 defense in the league.

The difference between Luka/Harden and KAT is that they’re not only elite scorers, they’re elite playmakers as well and both of them can carry an offense.

Mavs has the #1 offense in the league by a huge margin. Timberwolves has the #17 offense in the league.

don't want to play the semantic game, but I didn't say he's playing elite defense...but his defense is much improved and he's actually a much better defender than both Harden/Luka, so if you're gonna make the defense argument you better make it across the board.

and I'm fully aware of Luka's impact my guy, that's why I have him #2 in MVP after Giannis (Towns 3rd). you responded to the post where I had them ranked, did you not? you don't have to convince me on Luka.

[LikeABosh]

lol, per all box scores, metrics, advanced stats he is very much a serious candidate actually.

A serious candidate to win it? Oh boy

That'll be the day. Towns beats out historical seasons by Giannis, Harden, and Luka with a losing record

Towns is having a great year. His 3 pt shooting as a big is incredible. But he'll never ever win it if he has no team success. Who are you trying to fool? Nobody would believe he's an MVP regardless of his sexy advanced stats

99% of the time you make a lot of sense. But that 1% of the time, you say the most bizare things

that explains why I have him #3 right now, no? but yes, he's a serious candidate because there's still PLENTY of time to go to get his Ws up, obviously. the season doesn't end tomorrow.

But you ranked him that today. So obviously I'm going to judge your MVP ladder as if those would be the results if the season did end tomorrow. He clearly wouldn't be 3rd and I doubt he'd even be 5th

And you acting like it's laughable for someone to think otherwise is...odd

[clyde21]

A serious candidate to win it? Oh boy

That'll be the day. Towns beats out historical seasons by Giannis, Harden, and Luka with a losing record

Towns is having a great year. His 3 pt shooting as a big is incredible. But he'll never ever win it if he has no team success. Who are you trying to fool? Nobody would believe he's an MVP regardless of his sexy advanced stats

99% of the time you make a lot of sense. But that 1% of the time, you say the most bizare things

that explains why I have him #3 right now, no? but yes, he's a serious candidate because there's still PLENTY of time to go to get his Ws up, obviously. the season doesn't end tomorrow.

But you ranked him that today. So obviously I'm going to judge your MVP ladder as if those would be the results if the season did end tomorrow. He clearly wouldn't be 3rd and I doubt he'd even be 5th

And you acting like it's laughable for someone to think otherwise is...odd

1. you're the one that laughed off Towns as a candidate

2. we're a quarter of the season in, seedings don't matter at all at this point. if that's something u want to emphasize i'm sure you have your own list to do that.

[LikeABosh]

1. you're the one that laughed off Towns as a candidate

Uh, no. I said he wasn't a serious candidate (meaning as of today) and you laughed that I didn't agree with you.

2. we're a quarter of the season in, seedings don't matter at all at this point. if that's something u want to emphasize i'm sure you have your own list to do that.

Why wouldn't wins matter at this point? Everyone uses that in their rankings. If you're making a prediction that Towns will get his wins up and finish 3rd then I would clarify that.

if that's something u want to emphasize i'm sure you have your own list to do that.

Do you post in this thread to have a discussion or just for people to agree with everything you say? Saying "well why don't you make your own list" makes me think it's not the former. Ranking Towns 3rd is unique from other MVP lists and you probably should've expected that we would disagree. Replying "lol" immediately as if its commonly accepted he's ranked ahead of Harden, LeBron/AD, Butler is silly

[clyde21]

1. you're the one that laughed off Towns as a candidate

Uh, no. I said he wasn't a serious candidate (meaning as of today) and you laughed that I didn't agree with you.

2. we're a quarter of the season in, seedings don't matter at all at this point. if that's something u want to emphasize i'm sure you have your own list to do that.

Why wouldn't wins matter at this point? Everyone uses that in their rankings. If you're making a prediction that Towns will get his wins up and finish 3rd then I would clarify that.

if that's something u want to emphasize i'm sure you have your own list to do that.

Do you post in this thread to have a discussion or just for people to agree with everything you say? Saying "well why don't you make your own list" makes me think it's not the former. Ranking Towns 3rd is unique from other MVP lists and you probably should've expected that we would disagree. Replying "lol" immediately as if its commonly accepted he's ranked ahead of Harden, LeBron/AD, Butler is silly

you can disagree with me as much as you want, I already told you that 1) he's in fact a serious candidate, and all statistics advanced or otherwise prove it and 2) quarter of the season in I don't a crap about seedings at this point.

if you want to emphasize seeding in the beginning of December more power to you, just don't laugh off Towns as a non-candidate just because you choose to do that.

[TheGOATRises007]

Clyde, you're a good poster...

But this Towns MVP talk is a huge stretch. He's nowhere near top 3 in MVP.

[bstein14]

If Giannis didn't win last year he would be the clear cut #1 front runner, but because the NBA loves a new narrative we're going to hear a ton about Luka over the next few months as long as Dallas remains a top 4 team in the West.

[JN61]

Giannis

Luka
Towns

everyone else

Towns?

yes?

26/12/4.5 with 1.5bpg on 66 TS%

5th in VORP
4th in BPM
6th in WS
5th in PER

the Wolves would be picking top3 in the draft without Towns

And with him they aren't a playoff team.

[emunney]

Giannis

Luka
Towns

everyone else

Towns?

yes?

26/12/4.5 with 1.5bpg on 66 TS%

5th in VORP
4th in BPM
6th in WS
5th in PER

the Wolves would be picking top3 in the draft without Towns

I can't help but notice that none of these are top 3.

[clyde21]

Towns?

yes?

26/12/4.5 with 1.5bpg on 66 TS%

5th in VORP
4th in BPM
6th in WS
5th in PER

the Wolves would be picking top3 in the draft without Towns

I can't help but notice that none of these are top 3.

okay? do they have to be?

[Ambrose]

Towns?

yes?

26/12/4.5 with 1.5bpg on 66 TS%

5th in VORP
4th in BPM
6th in WS
5th in PER

the Wolves would be picking top3 in the draft without Towns

I can't help but notice that none of these are top 3.

This is amazing.

[emunney]

yes?

26/12/4.5 with 1.5bpg on 66 TS%

5th in VORP
4th in BPM
6th in WS
5th in PER

the Wolves would be picking top3 in the draft without Towns

I can't help but notice that none of these are top 3.

okay? do they have to be?

Given it's the body of your case for why Towns is clearly in the top 3 I would think so yeah.

[clyde21]

I can't help but notice that none of these are top 3.

okay? do they have to be?

Given it's the body of your case for why Towns is clearly in the top 3 I would think so yeah.

so if he was top 3 in one of those but 10th in the others that would've be fine as long as he was top 3 in one?

[emunney]

okay? do they have to be?

Given it's the body of your case for why Towns is clearly in the top 3 I would think so yeah.

so if he was top 3 in one of those but 10th in the others that would've be fine as long as he was top 3 in one?

That still sounds like a weak case but at least you'd have something to hang your hat on.

[clyde21]

Given it's the body of your case for why Towns is clearly in the top 3 I would think so yeah.

so if he was top 3 in one of those but 10th in the others that would've be fine as long as he was top 3 in one?

That still sounds like a weak case but at least you'd have something to hang your hat on.

being top 5 in almost every single advanced metric is a weak case? okay.

[Ballerhogger]

Giannis

Luka
Towns

everyone else

Did watch what AD did to Towns the other night??? dropped 50 on him yea.....

[Ballerhogger]

Towns?

yes?

26/12/4.5 with 1.5bpg on 66 TS%

5th in VORP
4th in BPM
6th in WS
5th in PER

the Wolves would be picking top3 in the draft without Towns

And with him they aren't a playoff team.

https://www.espn.com/nba/standings

they arent playoff team right so whats your point?

[LikeABosh]

okay? do they have to be?

Given it's the body of your case for why Towns is clearly in the top 3 I would think so yeah.

so if he was top 3 in one of those but 10th in the others that would've be fine as long as he was top 3 in one?

Yes, he doesn't necessarily need to be top 3 in any one of those stats, but the combination of those stats should show that he's a top 3 candidate. And it doesn't. Because we're comparing (or should be comparing) Towns to everyone else in the field and the top 3 candidates (Giannis, Luka, Harden) are top 3 in almost all of them.

Luka:
VORP - 1st
BPM - 1st
WS - 4th
PER - 2nd

Harden:
VORP - 3rd
BPM - 3rd
WS - 1st
PER - 3rd

Giannis:
VORP - 2nd
BPM - 2nd
WS - 2nd
PER - 1st

Towns:
VORP - 5th
BPM - 4th
WS - 6th
PER - 5th

LeBron:
VORP - 4th
BPM - 5th
WS - 5th
PER - 6th

Davis:
VORP - 6th
BPM - 6th
WS - 3rd
PER - 4th

By your own argument, Giannis 1st and Luka 2nd is appropriate. But putting Towns 3rd and then a gap between him and the rest of field is not. Especially when it basically eliminates Harden who should be 3rd by your standards.