2019 season speculation including trade ideas

[ryanball]

CAN WE PLAY A GAME WITH AYTON BACK????????

The reason we are hovering around .500 is due to depth, and injuries. With Ayton back it allows Kaminsky to move to bench. Then we can either put Saric or try Baynes at the 4 next to Ayton. My thing, is let Jerome develop, he isn't ready.

The only trade I would do is TJ, protected 1st, Carter, and that is it.

Let's roll with what we have, let's get back to healthy, and let's build the chemistry. Most of the guy's you are all asking to trade for , aren't going to make us contenders, they will just make us have $$$ tied up in them.

Yes please.

Ayton should already be addressing so much of what this team is lacking now: a measure of rim protection, rebounding, post scoring threat, potent lob target for Rubio. Seems like people are underestimating the impact he could have.

[RiRuHoops]

RPM #s just got released. Obviously not a perfect measure (especially with those with really small sample size) but a tool nonetheless.

Highest Suns - Baynes at 34 and Booker at 53. Of our SFs, Bridges 175, Cam 201 and Oubre 242.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/1

Did you forget your glasses at the library, grandpa ? Highest Sun is Rubio at #20.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

One thing I don’t understand about this “building continuity with 2nd unit” stuff is that doesn’t Kaminsky have to build continuity with the 2nd unit as well since he will be on that unit too once Ayton comes back? Kaminsky and Baynes need to play more mins together then with the bench unit then don’t they?

If that’s the case, wouldn’t it make more sense to start Diallo over Kaminsky since Diallo is the one who will be out of the rotation once Ayton returns so “building continuity” won’t be important for Diallo.

Diallo seems the way better matchup against the strong and physical Valanciunas than Kaminsky as well.

Sounds to me like he is planning for Ayton to start fairly soon. I supposed I am OK with that, reluctantly. But Baynes needs between 25 and 30 mins per game and he needs to be on the floor with Booker.

Baynes CAN NOT play 25-30 minutes per game because he can't stop fouling. He plays too hard and aggressive, and that is nice, but makes him a backup player for life.

We needed him badly to play starting minutes with Ayton suspended but the most that he could play was 24 mpg. And he got hurt a lot, so he playing around 18 mpg would be perfect for him and the team.

I think 25 is about right. He averages 6 fouls per 36. But that is against the starting units and stars. And he only had that one injury after a weird foul and then overcompensated for that leading to another injury. Without that weird fall he probably has no injuries.

[bwgood77]

CAN WE PLAY A GAME WITH AYTON BACK????????

The reason we are hovering around .500 is due to depth, and injuries. With Ayton back it allows Kaminsky to move to bench. Then we can either put Saric or try Baynes at the 4 next to Ayton. My thing, is let Jerome develop, he isn't ready.

The only trade I would do is TJ, protected 1st, Carter, and that is it.

Let's roll with what we have, let's get back to healthy, and let's build the chemistry. Most of the guy's you are all asking to trade for , aren't going to make us contenders, they will just make us have $$$ tied up in them.

Of course we can still see how they play with everyone back. Nobody is saying that any of these proposals have to be immediate. Heck, We'd have till what? Up until february for the trade deadline to decide. So it's not at all like we wouldn't get a fair view of the rosters' potential as is at a full strength. These proposals are of course dependent upon the suns intent to get something of value for Tyler's expiring as opposed to just letting him expire and acquire more cap space. It's simply an option to be considered. Also, wich players in my proposal aside from Thaddeus Young alone would be tying up our cap space specifically? Kris Dunn ( 5 million expiring), and Bellinelli ( 5 million expiring). So really, only Young would affect our cap space. But what he would bring would be quality positonal defense and a strong veteran presence next to Ayton, Whilst adding depth either in a starting role or for the 2nd unit if they so choose. That's honestly a major upgrade for us from what Kaminsky has shown. He'd also add a lot more value in a trade heading into 2021 as an expiring contract for us.

Plus, IF we were to decide to trade Tyler's expiring for some positive value around or before the trade deadline, Getting both Dunn( *** Ranked 6th in perimeter defense), along with Young (*** 2nd team all defense)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blogabull.com/platform/amp/2018/5/22/17374926/chicago-bulls-kris-dunn-among-nbas-elite-perimeter-defenders.

Read on Twitter

?s=19 .

would give us three really good perimeter/ positional defenders at our 3 most critical positions: Backup point guard , Backup power forward, and Center ( Baynes). Add those defenders to Bridges, and we now have strong perimter defense at - at least 4/5 positions.This again covers multiple positions that were otherwise areas of weakness for us. Our offense is really good. But our defense has cost us more than a few winnable games. We were constantly getting beat by opposing teams on the perimeter and with penetration. This would fix those issues, along with giving us maximum veteran depth in the event of any future unforeseen injuries. So whilst your right in that these trades wouldn't make us a contender, We'd still be a deeper, stronger, immenent playoff team for sure. And we might even be able to get past the first round given our added depth and defensive roster improvement. Because, As we all know, defense is key in the playoffs.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2698613-metrics-101-the-top-5-nba-defenders-at-every-position.amp.html.

Finally, IF worse comes to worse, In 2021, We can more easily trade Thaddeus Young to some team for an expiring or future assets, and still head into 2021 free agency as a competitive playoff team with possible max cap space. Adding depth is never a bad thing as long as Monty can figure out the rotations properly, and it's a luxury as the season rolls along, and the other teams get hit with injuries.

Why are you posting stats from 2 years ago?

[bwgood77]

RPM #s just got released. Obviously not a perfect measure (especially with those with really small sample size) but a tool nonetheless.

Highest Suns - Baynes at 34 and Booker at 53. Of our SFs, Bridges 175, Cam 201 and Oubre 242.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/1

Did you forget your glasses at the library, grandpa ? Highest Sun is Rubio at #20.

I guess I did. Wow, that's impressive.

[Ghost of Kleine]

CAN WE PLAY A GAME WITH AYTON BACK????????

The reason we are hovering around .500 is due to depth, and injuries. With Ayton back it allows Kaminsky to move to bench. Then we can either put Saric or try Baynes at the 4 next to Ayton. My thing, is let Jerome develop, he isn't ready.

The only trade I would do is TJ, protected 1st, Carter, and that is it.

Let's roll with what we have, let's get back to healthy, and let's build the chemistry. Most of the guy's you are all asking to trade for , aren't going to make us contenders, they will just make us have $$$ tied up in them.

Yes please.

Ayton should already be addressing so much of what this team is lacking now: a measure of rim protection, rebounding, post scoring threat, potent lob target for Rubio. Seems like people are underestimating the impact he could have.

Or it could be the flip side of that coin, Wherein people could be potentially overestimating the defensive impact Ayton will have upon his return. Again, nobody is saying any proposed trade has to happen immediately. We're obviously going to get to see the team at full strength for a duration before making any decisions. I mean, The Trade deadline isn't until February. But for people to assume that Aytons' return is going to remedy all of our critical defensive issues and immediately guarantee a measurable improvement in our defense, Both perimeter and in terms of rim protection is a pretty big gamble considering he has ( aside from 1 game) yet to show that he can consistently be a defensive anchor for the team.

Now do I hope that he becomes dominant, Of course! But let's all not act like it's a foregone conclusion that it's going to happen. Also, let's not treat any potential trade proposals as if their contingent upon being employed immediately before any reasonable roster introspection upon his return. If Ayton returns and our team stays competitive and/or dominates then great! A trade for roster improvement will be found to be unecessary. But if he returns and after a month or so of games, IF for whatever reason we are not competitive and otherwise struggling and inconsistent in areas, Then any plausible trade proposals that possibly bring roster improvement without drastically changing our core or starting 5, Should absolutely be considered. After all, are we not ultimately in the business of constant improvement as a team?

[lilfishi22]

Surprised to see Oubre so low

Oubre at #242 (worse offense and defense than Bridges #234, Carter #233, Dario #128)
Cam at #201 with pretty decent ORPM but poor DRPM (as expected)

[Saberestar]

RPM #s just got released. Obviously not a perfect measure (especially with those with really small sample size) but a tool nonetheless.

Highest Suns - Baynes at 34 and Booker at 53. Of our SFs, Bridges 175, Cam 201 and Oubre 242.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/1

Did you forget your glasses at the library, grandpa ? Highest Sun is Rubio at #20.

I guess I did. Wow, that's impressive.

I am not a big believer in that advanced stats.

Rubio at #20... and who are before an after him?

#18 Ben McLemore, #19 Dennis Schroeder, #21 Patty Mills and #22 Christian Wood.

[lilfishi22]

Did you forget your glasses at the library, grandpa ? Highest Sun is Rubio at #20.

I guess I did. Wow, that's impressive.

I am not a big believer in that advanced stats.

Rubio at #20... and who are before an after him?

#18 Ben McLemore, #19 Dennis Schroeder, #21 Patty Mills and #22 Christian Wood.

Still early with small sample size.

I've mentioned this before but there's no one perfect advance stat out there that takes everything possible into consideration. But just because you see names like McLemore or Patty Mills in rankings that appear out of place, that doesn't mean you should throw away the stats completely. And what's worse than advance stats is the eye test because it's so incredibly subjective. I might watch Ayton and think he's an awesome basketball player because he's huge, he rebounds and he dunks and I can't be convinced that Luka is better because he doesn't look as imposing. It's these sort of personal biases which makes the eye test a relatively poor measure of productivity, impact or effectiveness.

[bwgood77]

Did you forget your glasses at the library, grandpa ? Highest Sun is Rubio at #20.

I guess I did. Wow, that's impressive.

I am not a big believer in that advanced stats.

Rubio at #20... and who are before an after him?

#18 Ben McLemore, #19 Dennis Schroeder, #21 Patty Mills and #22 Christian Wood.

Yeah, it's limited sample size which is why they wait, and it improves over time, but obviously if someone is high it's good and if they are low it's bad. Of course it doesn't mean McLemore and Schroeder are playing almost as well as Doncic, but that their #s say they are playing well.

The majority of the names at the top you'd expect with a few odd ones littered in. I did notice Tyler Johnson is very low. Of course you have to take all these advanced #s into context along with the eye test.

[bwgood77]

Surprised to see Oubre so low

Oubre at #242 (worse offense and defense than Bridges #234, Carter #233, Dario #128)
Cam at #201 with pretty decent ORPM but poor DRPM (as expected)

I was surprised Oubre was low, but not surprised Mikal was higher. He is a far better defender, and he is an elite finisher at the rim, where Oubre is bad, has a much higher TS% (594-553) and the one thing people complaining about Mikal was his 3 point shooting, but he has improved. Not good at 30.8% but Oubre not that great either at 32.7%.

[Ghost of Kleine]

CAN WE PLAY A GAME WITH AYTON BACK????????

The reason we are hovering around .500 is due to depth, and injuries. With Ayton back it allows Kaminsky to move to bench. Then we can either put Saric or try Baynes at the 4 next to Ayton. My thing, is let Jerome develop, he isn't ready.

The only trade I would do is TJ, protected 1st, Carter, and that is it.

Let's roll with what we have, let's get back to healthy, and let's build the chemistry. Most of the guy's you are all asking to trade for , aren't going to make us contenders, they will just make us have $$$ tied up in them.

Of course we can still see how they play with everyone back. Nobody is saying that any of these proposals have to be immediate. Heck, We'd have till what? Up until february for the trade deadline to decide. So it's not at all like we wouldn't get a fair view of the rosters' potential as is at a full strength. These proposals are of course dependent upon the suns intent to get something of value for Tyler's expiring as opposed to just letting him expire and acquire more cap space. It's simply an option to be considered. Also, wich players in my proposal aside from Thaddeus Young alone would be tying up our cap space specifically? Kris Dunn ( 5 million expiring), and Bellinelli ( 5 million expiring). So really, only Young would affect our cap space. But what he would bring would be quality positonal defense and a strong veteran presence next to Ayton, Whilst adding depth either in a starting role or for the 2nd unit if they so choose. That's honestly a major upgrade for us from what Kaminsky has shown. He'd also add a lot more value in a trade heading into 2021 as an expiring contract for us.

Plus, IF we were to decide to trade Tyler's expiring for some positive value around or before the trade deadline, Getting both Dunn( *** Ranked 6th in perimeter defense), along with Young (*** 2nd team all defense)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blogabull.com/platform/amp/2018/5/22/17374926/chicago-bulls-kris-dunn-among-nbas-elite-perimeter-defenders.

Read on Twitter

?s=19 .

would give us three really good perimeter/ positional defenders at our 3 most critical positions: Backup point guard , Backup power forward, and Center ( Baynes). Add those defenders to Bridges, and we now have strong perimter defense at - at least 4/5 positions.This again covers multiple positions that were otherwise areas of weakness for us. Our offense is really good. But our defense has cost us more than a few winnable games. We were constantly getting beat by opposing teams on the perimeter and with penetration. This would fix those issues, along with giving us maximum veteran depth in the event of any future unforeseen injuries. So whilst your right in that these trades wouldn't make us a contender, We'd still be a deeper, stronger, immenent playoff team for sure. And we might even be able to get past the first round given our added depth and defensive roster improvement. Because, As we all know, defense is key in the playoffs.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2698613-metrics-101-the-top-5-nba-defenders-at-every-position.amp.html.

Finally, IF worse comes to worse, In 2021, We can more easily trade Thaddeus Young to some team for an expiring or future assets, and still head into 2021 free agency as a competitive playoff team with possible max cap space. Adding depth is never a bad thing as long as Monty can figure out the rotations properly, and it's a luxury as the season rolls along, and the other teams get hit with injuries.

Why are you posting stats from 2 years ago?

It's just what came up from my search for NBAs' best positional defenders. I wasn't searching for dunns' individual stats or Youngs' as I remembered seeing them on this list with relence to both their defensive skillsets and abilities relative to this particular post. But it doesn't overtly affect the overall premise of what value either Young or Dunn would bring to our teams' perimeter defense with respect to their defensive capabilities and skillset. But seeing as the date of posted articles is of the utmost importance to you , Perhaps this will accomodate you better.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/pippenainteasy.com/2019/11/22/chicago-bulls-kris-dunn-might-have-a-lot-of-trade-value-after-all/amp/ .

However, Dunn proved in his newfound role under the direction of head coach Jim Boylen that he does still offer a lot of value for the Bulls. He’s becoming a true defensive stopper that is great for the Bulls to have in specific situations coming off the bench.

So far this season, Dunn leads the NBA in total steals, and is posting a tremendous steal rate of 4.8 (also good for best in the league at the moment). His steal numbers sit at 2.1 per game, and an insane rate of 4.8 per 100 possessions and 3.7 per 36 minutes. His defensive box plus/minus rating sits at 3.8 right now and he has a solid defensive rating sitting at 100.

Dunn is helping the Bulls to actually post a team defensive rating in the top half of the NBA this season. That is one of the biggest individual jumps in defensive rating that any team in the NBA made from last season to now.

Also:

Read on Twitter

?s=19 .

So overall, these are more recent posted articles, Hopefully you find these sufficient.

[bwgood77]

We are not projected on 538 to finish 39-43 but get the 8th seed, with the TWolves and Kings finishing 38-44 and the Blazers finishing 37-45. Pelicans 35-47.

So those teams we need to beat for sure

The positive thing is if OKC trades some of their vets, that's good, because they are now projected as the 7 seed at 40-42.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-predictions/?ex_cid=rrpromo

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=19 .

Well, I guess we'll definitely get to see what we have with the team at full strength. This should relieve a great number of people here. Hopefully getting Ayton back will solve the majority of our critical issues. And hopefully Monty can vet this team on track before we work our way out of the playoffs completely. Fingers crossed!

[PharmD]

As someone who's watched a lot of Kris Dunn, I'll say that he most definitely is a great defender but he ****ing SUCKS at offense. It was immediately apparent about 5 minutes into his first game that he was a huge bust. Furious that Thibs took him with the #5 pick.

[PharmD]

Suns by minutes played: RPM rank

Booker: 53
Oubre: 242
Saric: 105
Rubio: 20
Kaminsky: 371
Mikal: 175
Cam: 201
Tyler Johnson: 397
Baynes: 34
Carter: 98
Diallo: 246

Thoughts: Frank is getting way too many minutes in a role he sucks at. Rubio and Baynes missing so much time has hurt a lot.

[Ghost of Kleine]

As someone who's watched a lot of Kris Dunn, I'll say that he most definitely is a great defender but he ****ing SUCKS at offense. It was immediately apparent about 5 minutes into his first game that he was a huge bust. Furious that Thibs took him with the #5 pick.

I can agree with that, He's definitely got his struggles offensively. But he is a great defender. It's really too bad that he can't get a great shooting coach to help him fix his shot more. What are your thoughts on his passing ability? Not yhat it'd be critically important in a reserve defensive stopper role. But just curious as to his possible range of improvement in some areas?

[Revived]

I wish we could trade Tyler Johnson for Marcus Smart. He’s like the PG version of Bridges, limited offensively but nothing short of brilliant defensively. Perfect backup to Rubio.

With Boston playing so well though, chances are slim they’d trade him away for just an expiring.

[schnakenpopanz]

Suns need upgrades at back up pg and a real starting pf.
without rubio the offense looks lost.
carter, johnson and jerome are not good enough.

[Revived]

carter, johnson and jerome are not good enough.

Sad thing is that Melton looked pretty good.