Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I]

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Who are your top 3 bets for ROTY if Zion sits out season? (RESET)

Brandon Clarke
30
7%
PJ Washington
12
3%
Kendrick Nunn
68
17%
Ja Morant
161
40%
Darius Garland
3
1%
Coby White
11
3%
Rui Hachimura
13
3%
RJ Barrett
40
10%
De’Andre Hunter
8
2%
Tyler Herro
59
15%
 
Total votes: 405

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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1401 » by clyde21 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:27 pm

Marcus wrote:
clyde21 wrote:top10 in ppg (draft class only):

1. Ja Morant - 19.1
2. Eric Paschalll - 16.6
3. Rui Hachimura - 14.4
4. Tyler Herro - 13.9
5. RJ Barrett - 13.9
6. De'Andre Hunter - 12.8
7. PJ Washington - 12.2
8. Coby White - 11.9
9. Brandon Clarke - 11.8
10. Darius Garland - 10.9


as a Warriors fan do you see Paschall as a core member going forward once you guys are full strenght? I've only seen a couple of games and i'm trying to gage if this productivity is a "well somebody has to score the points on this team" type of situation or if he'd still be given leeway to produce at this clip relative to the talent of a healthy roster.


he's a useful player, strong body, good length, really versatile scorer, just wish he was more physical, looks like he should be more physical than he actually is especially on the defensive end, should be a better rebounder too but he's not there yet.

i think he can already be a decent rotation piece on a contending team, so that's a win already for a 2nd rounder.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1402 » by clyde21 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:28 am

Kevin Porter: 24/2/3 with 3 steals
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1403 » by clyde21 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:26 am

Coby: 19/2/4 with 1stl and 1blk
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1404 » by Buzzard » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:34 am

Cam 16/5. He had a good efficient game going until garbage time in the 4th when he was one of the few still shooting in a horrible blowout loss.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1405 » by Prospect Dong » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:40 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
zeebneeb wrote:I would love to discuss the Pistons rookie but the whole organization is so damn dumb he doesn't get any playing time on a terrible team.

Man the Pistons are truly a terrible organization now. No vision, no hope, coked out owner. Oh well.


Dwane Casey is one of the worst at this, dude never plays the young guys just based on a stupid principle


Almost never do head coaches not play young guys in order to spite themselves. No, instead they see lots of things you will never know, like missed defensive assignments, messing up offensive plays, etc... Most young players simply aren't positives. Even the ones with the shiniest numbers aren't actually all that helpful to winning games in most cases.

Literally every coach gets accused of this by fans. Is it more likely they are all idiots or that they know stuff we don't? Yeah I'm going to go with the latter.

Carlisle gets accused of this all the time by Mavs fans, but when he has young guys who can play--he absolutely plays them. And when he gets a generational talent, he hands him the keys to the entire show from day 1.

If Casey isn't playing a guy, it's probably because the guy isn't ready to help and it's Casey's job to win games not showcase rookies. Now if the organization decides later in the year to punt on this season, then he will likely play those guys more as he should.

But this is one of the biggest misconceptions by fans--coaches just hate young players and will always play worse veterans over them.


Yeah, this.

I think it's possible that coaches sometimes play the vets more than would be ideal from a player development point of view, especially when a team ought to by trying to tank, but fans constantly claim their coach is costing them games with some sort of incomprehensible love for terrible vets.

Coaches want to win, and they're mostly better at figuring out how to do that than we are. If your rookies aren't playing, it's probably because they're not great right now. And that's fine - most rookies aren't great.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1406 » by clyde21 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:36 am

RJ: 22/10/3 with 1stl and 1blk
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1407 » by LivingLegend » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:50 am

Kevin Porter Jr. is scary similar to Harden in the way he plays. His crossover, hesitation, layup package, eurostep and just the way he moves on the court is almost identical.

Balled tonight

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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1408 » by clyde21 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:33 am

Hayes with another good night: 12/5/1 with 2stls and 2blks in 24 minutes...only 1 foul...
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1409 » by clyde21 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:27 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Read on Twitter
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1410 » by Mrcrockpots » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:37 pm

Brand new video. All of my rookie highlight reels can be found under the NBA Rookie Watch playlist on the channel. Thanks for watching! Lots of great talent this year. :rock:

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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1411 » by Crizzle » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:58 am

what do you all think Clarkes ceiling is?
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1412 » by clyde21 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:09 am

Crizzle wrote:what do you all think Clarkes ceiling is?


imma borrow my mans Duke's and Marcus comp: Shawn Marion
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1413 » by winston2chainz » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:29 am

clyde21 wrote:
Marcus wrote:
clyde21 wrote:top10 in ppg (draft class only):

1. Ja Morant - 19.1
2. Eric Paschalll - 16.6
3. Rui Hachimura - 14.4
4. Tyler Herro - 13.9
5. RJ Barrett - 13.9
6. De'Andre Hunter - 12.8
7. PJ Washington - 12.2
8. Coby White - 11.9
9. Brandon Clarke - 11.8
10. Darius Garland - 10.9


as a Warriors fan do you see Paschall as a core member going forward once you guys are full strenght? I've only seen a couple of games and i'm trying to gage if this productivity is a "well somebody has to score the points on this team" type of situation or if he'd still be given leeway to produce at this clip relative to the talent of a healthy roster.


he's a useful player, strong body, good length, really versatile scorer, just wish he was more physical, looks like he should be more physical than he actually is especially on the defensive end, should be a better rebounder too but he's not there yet.

i think he can already be a decent rotation piece on a contending team, so that's a win already for a 2nd rounder.


Agreed, though I think you're understating how good Eric Paschall is. From what I've seen he's got a versatile arsenal of offensive moves that would be transferable on any team, not just "empty stats on a lottery team".

(1) Eric Paschall has an elite 1st step that often catches his defender backpedaling, and he's aggressive at driving to the rim (34% of his FGA are within 0-3 feet of the basket, 23% are within 3-10 feet)

(2) He's already above average at creating separation from his defender leveraging his strength & quick first step

(3) He has a solid set of go-to moves in the paint that allows him to comfortably finish at and around the rim through contact (0-5 feet: 64.6%FG, 5 FGA per game)

https://stats.nba.com/players/shooting/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FG%20PCT&dir=1&PlayerPosition=F&CF=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FGA*GE*2:5-9%20ft.%20FGA*GE*1

(4) Savvy at exploiting favourable matchups and leveraging his strength & speed to bully his way to the rim against smaller defenders

(5) Has a mechanically sound jumpshot that extends out to 19 feet, helping to space the floor, although he's a below average 3 point shooter.

(6) Effective at creating his own scoring opportunities within the flow of the offense

The negatives so far for EP:

(1) Contrary to NBA draft scouting reports he's so far been a below average NBA defender. Loses his assignment, can't consistently keep in front of his man, hasn't been able to effectively communicate rotations and switches, doesn't appear to have much defensive intensity. That being said, this Warriors team is historically bad.

(2) A lot of his points come through ISO potentially limiting his efficacy in a Steph & Klay led motion offense.

(3) Below average at 3-point shooting

At 23 he's probably got a lower ceiling than other rookies in his class, but as is, he could already be a net positive contributor on a championship caliber team as a 6th man type scoring option.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1414 » by Buzzard » Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:51 am

Cam Reddish may be settling in some. 5 games in December:
28.5 Minutes, 13.6 PTS, 5.2 TRB, .439 FG%, .393 3PT%, ugly and surprising .583 FT%, almost respectable .546 TS%
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1415 » by Goudelock » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:47 pm

Buzzard wrote:Cam Reddish may be settling in some. 5 games in December:
28.5 Minutes, 13.6 PTS, 5.2 TRB, .439 FG%, .393 3PT%, ugly and surprising .583 FT%, almost respectable .546 TS%




There have been few non-Laker rookies I've wanted to succeed more than Cam Reddish. I get that he's not very good at the moment, but the constant criticism of his game seems over-the-top. I'm happy to see that he's starting to find his way offensively, since his defense was already ok. Granted, the Hawks are blacked out where I live, so I'm doing a lot of box-score and highlight watching right now. I don't know what he looks like in the flow of the game since late November.

Question: If Reddish can end up averaging 10 ppg on 40-30-75 splits, then this season has to be considered a success for him, does it not?
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1416 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:36 pm

PockyCandy wrote:There have been few non-Laker rookies I've wanted to succeed more than Cam Reddish. I get that he's not very good at the moment, but the constant criticism of his game seems over-the-top.

Question: If Reddish can end up averaging 10 ppg on 40-30-75 splits, then this season has to be considered a success for him, does it not?



Most Hawks fans would be encouraged with solid production/efficiency like that of a rookie.

(I personally would be disappointed if that's the extent of it after trading away a generational player like Luka. But I guess it is unfair to link Reddish expectations to a player he otherwise has not connection to.)
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1417 » by Marcus » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:30 pm

winston2chainz wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Marcus wrote:
as a Warriors fan do you see Paschall as a core member going forward once you guys are full strenght? I've only seen a couple of games and i'm trying to gage if this productivity is a "well somebody has to score the points on this team" type of situation or if he'd still be given leeway to produce at this clip relative to the talent of a healthy roster.


he's a useful player, strong body, good length, really versatile scorer, just wish he was more physical, looks like he should be more physical than he actually is especially on the defensive end, should be a better rebounder too but he's not there yet.

i think he can already be a decent rotation piece on a contending team, so that's a win already for a 2nd rounder.


Agreed, though I think you're understating how good Eric Paschall is. From what I've seen he's got a versatile arsenal of offensive moves that would be transferable on any team, not just "empty stats on a lottery team".

(1) Eric Paschall has an elite 1st step that often catches his defender backpedaling, and he's aggressive at driving to the rim (34% of his FGA are within 0-3 feet of the basket, 23% are within 3-10 feet)

(2) He's already above average at creating separation from his defender leveraging his strength & quick first step

(3) He has a solid set of go-to moves in the paint that allows him to comfortably finish at and around the rim through contact (0-5 feet: 64.6%FG, 5 FGA per game)

https://stats.nba.com/players/shooting/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FG%20PCT&dir=1&PlayerPosition=F&CF=Less%20Than%205%20ft.%20FGA*GE*2:5-9%20ft.%20FGA*GE*1

(4) Savvy at exploiting favourable matchups and leveraging his strength & speed to bully his way to the rim against smaller defenders

(5) Has a mechanically sound jumpshot that extends out to 19 feet, helping to space the floor, although he's a below average 3 point shooter.

(6) Effective at creating his own scoring opportunities within the flow of the offense

The negatives so far for EP:

(1) Contrary to NBA draft scouting reports he's so far been a below average NBA defender. Loses his assignment, can't consistently keep in front of his man, hasn't been able to effectively communicate rotations and switches, doesn't appear to have much defensive intensity. That being said, this Warriors team is historically bad.

(2) A lot of his points come through ISO potentially limiting his efficacy in a Steph & Klay led motion offense.

(3) Below average at 3-point shooting

At 23 he's probably got a lower ceiling than other rookies in his class, but as is, he could already be a net positive contributor on a championship caliber team as a 6th man type scoring option.


This is the point that i was getting to with my question and how much that negates 1-5 on your positives list. Can he live eating strictly of 6 on that same list ESPECIALLY if number on your negatives doesn't come around? So i don't think Clyde was necessarily downplaying his talent so much as factoring in his strenghts in cojunction with the strenghts of a healthy roster.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1418 » by Marcus » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:34 pm

clyde21 wrote:
Crizzle wrote:what do you all think Clarkes ceiling is?


imma borrow my mans Duke's and Marcus comp: Shawn Marion


that's all Duke's brilliance, it just made sense to me when i saw it. You both were well ahead of me on the Clarke wave.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1419 » by Marcus » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:37 pm

LivingLegend wrote:Kevin Porter Jr. is scary similar to Harden in the way he plays. His crossover, hesitation, layup package, eurostep and just the way he moves on the court is almost identical.

Balled tonight



yeah you can tell it's who his game is modeled after. I think that's also why you take a shot on him if you have the space for him to spread wings. Kid is clearly talented. Actually liked seeing the interaction between him and beard when the game was over, you can tell James sees where KPJ is trying to take it.
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Re: Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I] 

Post#1420 » by Buzzard » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:41 am

I bragged about Cam's 5 games in December and he has a off night for his 6th. His D was outstanding, especially to start the 4th, when the Hawks got back into the game. Hunter played pretty well but as with the whole Hawks team, he could not buy a 3 pointer tonight.

Cams highlights, 5 TRB, 1 STL, 1 BLK
Hunters highlights, 21 PTS, 4 TRB, 2 STL
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