***Around The League 2019-2020 Thread***

Post #241 » by **Calinks** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:05 pm

Bjelly had lots of chances. So did Saric. Tolliver, Etc. The problem is that for whatever reason, we have been horrible when it comes to maximizing these guys and they have had no confidence here. So many times I was frustrated with Bjelica but of course he moves on to another team and actually manages to do great things now and then. He was a dog here for the most part. I'm happy players like this find success but it annoys me they couldn't manage to do it in a wolves uniform.

Post #242 » by **Klomp** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:09 pm

Calinks wrote:Bjelly had lots of chances. So did Saric. Tolliver, Etc. The problem is that for whatever reason, we have been horrible when it comes to maximizing these guys and they have had no confidence here. So many times I was frustrated with Bjelica but of course he moves on to another team and actually manages to do great things now and then. He was a dog here for the most part. I'm happy players like this find success but it annoys me they couldn't manage to do it in a wolves uniform.

Part of it is people are far too quick to give up on these guys. If they aren't great within the first 20 games of the season, it must mean they're bums and will never be good so we might as well trade them all.

minimus · Post #243 » by **minimus** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:44 pm

Thibs to NYK?

Post #244 » by **Calinks** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:47 pm

minimus wrote:Thibs to NYK?

I already told them to stay away. At the very least don't give him full control. Not saying Thibs can't be a good coach but man you will have to deal with a lot and likely be playing out of date basketball. Then again if he can get his kind of players he can make it work. Gonna need a team of hardasses.

mandurugo · Post #245 » by **mandurugo** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:55 pm

Klomp wrote:
Calinks wrote:Bjelly had lots of chances. So did Saric. Tolliver, Etc. The problem is that for whatever reason, we have been horrible when it comes to maximizing these guys and they have had no confidence here. So many times I was frustrated with Bjelica but of course he moves on to another team and actually manages to do great things now and then. He was a dog here for the most part. I'm happy players like this find success but it annoys me they couldn't manage to do it in a wolves uniform.

Part of it is people are far too quick to give up on these guys. If they aren't great within the first 20 games of the season, it must mean they're bums and will never be good so we might as well trade them all.

I think you might be confusing RealGM posters with the actual GM and coaches. It doesn't matter if fans gripe on a message board, the problem is that Saric and Bjelica weren't given roles that allowed them to succeed while they were wolves, which were the decisions of their coaches here.

Post #246 » by **Klomp** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:18 pm

mandurugo wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Calinks wrote:Bjelly had lots of chances. So did Saric. Tolliver, Etc. The problem is that for whatever reason, we have been horrible when it comes to maximizing these guys and they have had no confidence here. So many times I was frustrated with Bjelica but of course he moves on to another team and actually manages to do great things now and then. He was a dog here for the most part. I'm happy players like this find success but it annoys me they couldn't manage to do it in a wolves uniform.

Part of it is people are far too quick to give up on these guys. If they aren't great within the first 20 games of the season, it must mean they're bums and will never be good so we might as well trade them all.

I think you might be confusing RealGM posters with the actual GM and coaches. It doesn't matter if fans gripe on a message board, the problem is that Saric and Bjelica weren't given roles that allowed them to succeed while they were wolves, which were the decisions of their coaches here.

This franchise has almost never given guys ample time to develop.

In our 31 seasons, only 9 first-round picks have played through their rookie deals and gotten a second contract in Minnesota (so basically, played into their fifth NBA season here):

Ordered by games played in Minnesota....
Kevin Garnett
Gorgui Dieng
Wally Szczerbiak
Andrew Wiggins
Kevin Love
Ricky Rubio
Karl-Anthony Towns
Rasho Nesterovic
Shabazz Muhammad

Look, I get that our draft record isn't great and none of the guys we let go really went on to have amazing careers, but that's kinda my point. We're conditioned to believe our draft picks are 'star or bust' and that it's determined within the first four years. We cast off Corey Brewer after 3.5 years because he wasn't a star player, but he lasted over a decade in the league and played over 800 games in his career. A major struggle for this franchise has always been establishing depth, but maybe that's just because we get rid of everyone prematurely.

We're so worried about finding the Shaq or Jordan, but I'd like the franchise to find more guys like AC Green or Kevin Willis or Derek Fisher. When you find dependable role players, it takes pressure off the best players to score 50 every night. Guys who know their role and you can depend on them to do their jobs.

Post #247 » by **Calinks** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:46 am

David Stern had a brain hemorrhage. Had to have surgery.

minimus · Post #248 » by **minimus** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:06 am

POR with two proven stars in Dame and CJ, HW and Melo are struggling mightly. Hood, Nurkic, Collins are all injured. They have no bench, no veterans. They will probably catch up once Nurkic and Collins are back.

I wonder whether it shows strength of West conference (hence we are in similar position as POR) or it is just internal POR struggle?

Post #249 » by **Calinks** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:18 am

It's pretty wild that we were playing so good this early that we could drop 6 straight games and still be hovering around Portland who have CJ and Lillard. It takes A LOT to be a good team in the NBA.

Also crazy how some teams seem to so easily just get good. Like Miami was mediocre, they just add Butler and some good draft picks and suddenly they are having 7 game win streaks. Suns were trash, they added some new players and they might make the playoffs.

minimus · Post #250 » by **minimus** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:38 am

Calinks wrote:It's pretty wild that we were playing so good this early that we could drop 6 straight games and still be hovering around Portland who have CJ and Lillard. It takes A LOT to be a good team in the NBA.

Also crazy how some teams seem to so easily just get good. Like Miami was mediocre, they just add Butler and some good draft picks and suddenly they are having 7 game win streaks. Suns were trash, they added some new players and they might make the playoffs.

Yeah, that is crazy stories in NBA. Also, in my opinion it also about price you pay to win now. POR for many years invested in questionable players, had no draft success.

MIA pay Butler a lot, and they are fortunate to have Herro, Robinson, Bam and Nunn on rookie deals. Also Nunn is not an ordinary rookie, he has played in gleague one year and is NBA ready. Otherwise these Waiters, Johnson, Olynik contracts would torpedo them.

I feel good about our young players: Nowell, Reid, Okogie, Culver, KBD, Layman. If they continue to develop just like they do now, we will be sitting on assets next year. We need a smart move from Rosas to invest our assets and next year wll make a leap.

Post #251 » by **Klomp** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:12 pm

Calinks wrote:It's pretty wild that we were playing so good this early that we could drop 6 straight games and still be hovering around Portland who have CJ and Lillard. It takes A LOT to be a good team in the NBA.

Also crazy how some teams seem to so easily just get good. Like Miami was mediocre, they just add Butler and some good draft picks and suddenly they are having 7 game win streaks. Suns were trash, they added some new players and they might make the playoffs.

DEPTH combined with STAR TALENT.

Miami always had a pretty good collection of role players, but lacked a true star. Phoenix had the star player in Booker but lacked the depth of good role players like Baynes and Rubio. Portland has the stars, but lost its depth over the summer.

Jedzz · Post #252 » by **Jedzz** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:02 am

Klomp wrote:
Look, I get that our draft record isn't great and none of the guys we let go really went on to have amazing careers, but that's kinda my point. We're conditioned to believe our draft picks are 'star or bust' and that it's determined within the first four years. We cast off Corey Brewer after 3.5 years because he wasn't a star player, but he lasted over a decade in the league and played over 800 games in his career. A major struggle for this franchise has always been establishing depth, but maybe that's just because we get rid of everyone prematurely.

We're so worried about finding the Shaq or Jordan, but I'd like the franchise to find more guys like AC Green or Kevin Willis or Derek Fisher. When you find dependable role players, it takes pressure off the best players to score 50 every night. Guys who know their role and you can depend on them to do their jobs.

Part of that is caused by starting them too soon when not ready, instead of letting them work their way up over time. Part of that issue is due to trying to sell seats with new draft pick hype and nothing builds hype like the fake idea that a kid is already good enough to start. That's a lot of pressure to put on players, and leaves them high and dry as far as developing goes. They either can under that pressure, or they don't. When you start out as a starter sometime in your rookie season, the expectations are already pretty high come year 2. Imagine year 4 now. Expectations are through the roof.

To see Wiggins go this long before showing a game IQ improvement like he has this year finally, amazing.

Post #253 » by **Calinks** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:10 am

Mavericks about to beat the Bucks and their super streak without Luka. Looks like they got a great team, it's not just Luka.

Crazy-Canuck · Post #254 » by **Crazy-Canuck** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:18 am

Calinks wrote:Mavericks about to beat the Bucks and their super streak without Luka. Looks like they got a great team, it's not just Luka.

Helps that the the coach knows how to put players in positions to succeed.

KGdaBom · Post #255 » by **KGdaBom** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:23 pm

minimus wrote:POR with two proven stars in Dame and CJ, HW and Melo are struggling mightly. Hood, Nurkic, Collins are all injured. They have no bench, no veterans. They will probably catch up once Nurkic and Collins are back.

I wonder whether it shows strength of West conference (hence we are in similar position as POR) or it is just internal POR struggle?

What HW are you talking about. Hassan Whiteside has been playing very well.

minimus · Post #256 » by **minimus** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:37 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:POR with two proven stars in Dame and CJ, HW and Melo are struggling mightly. Hood, Nurkic, Collins are all injured. They have no bench, no veterans. They will probably catch up once Nurkic and Collins are back.

I wonder whether it shows strength of West conference (hence we are in similar position as POR) or it is just internal POR struggle?

What HW are you talking about. Hassan Whiteside has been playing very well.

Contract year phenomen. It helps his value a bit, but he does not impact the game at the same level as Nurkic

KGdaBom · Post #257 » by **KGdaBom** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:41 pm

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:POR with two proven stars in Dame and CJ, HW and Melo are struggling mightly. Hood, Nurkic, Collins are all injured. They have no bench, no veterans. They will probably catch up once Nurkic and Collins are back.

I wonder whether it shows strength of West conference (hence we are in similar position as POR) or it is just internal POR struggle?

What HW are you talking about. Hassan Whiteside has been playing very well.

Contract year phenomen. It helps his value a bit, but he does not impact the game at the same level as Nurkic

You're doubling down on something so wrong. The latest on Whiteside from RotoWorld.

Hassan Whiteside finished Monday's win over the Suns with ten points (5-of-7 FGs), 14 rebounds, one steal and three blocked shots in 31 minutes.
Another game, another double-double for Whiteside as he posted his seventh straight in Monday's one-point win. Over the last month he's been outstanding, providing top-10 value in both eight- and nine-category formats. And given Portland's lack of depth in the post, with Skal Labissiere being the team's other available big, Whiteside will continue to have every opportunity to serve as the Blazers' anchor in the middle.
Dec 17, 2019, 2:08 AM ET

He's even been OK on his Free Throws this year at 77%. In what world is 16 points 12.5 rebounds 2.5 blocks at 62% FGs and 77% FTs struggling mightily as you claimed? Why not just admit you were wrong and move on.

minimus · Post #258 » by **minimus** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:47 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:What HW are you talking about. Hassan Whiteside has been playing very well.

Contract year phenomen. It helps his value a bit, but he does not impact the game at the same level as Nurkic

You're doubling down on something so wrong. The latest on Whiteside from RotoWorld.

Hassan Whiteside finished Monday's win over the Suns with ten points (5-of-7 FGs), 14 rebounds, one steal and three blocked shots in 31 minutes.
Another game, another double-double for Whiteside as he posted his seventh straight in Monday's one-point win. Over the last month he's been outstanding, providing top-10 value in both eight- and nine-category formats. And given Portland's lack of depth in the post, with Skal Labissiere being the team's other available big, Whiteside will continue to have every opportunity to serve as the Blazers' anchor in the middle.
Dec 17, 2019, 2:08 AM ET

He's even been OK on his Free Throws this year at 77%. In what world is 16 points 12.5 rebounds 2.5 blocks at 62% FGs and 77% FTs struggling mightily as you claimed? Why not just admit you were wrong and move on.

I admit that I was wrong saying he was struggling mightly. I should have been writing that he has been racking empty stats in his contract year. Let's move on.

KGdaBom · Post #259 » by **KGdaBom** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:50 pm

minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
Contract year phenomen. It helps his value a bit, but he does not impact the game at the same level as Nurkic

You're doubling down on something so wrong. The latest on Whiteside from RotoWorld.

Hassan Whiteside finished Monday's win over the Suns with ten points (5-of-7 FGs), 14 rebounds, one steal and three blocked shots in 31 minutes.
Another game, another double-double for Whiteside as he posted his seventh straight in Monday's one-point win. Over the last month he's been outstanding, providing top-10 value in both eight- and nine-category formats. And given Portland's lack of depth in the post, with Skal Labissiere being the team's other available big, Whiteside will continue to have every opportunity to serve as the Blazers' anchor in the middle.
Dec 17, 2019, 2:08 AM ET

He's even been OK on his Free Throws this year at 77%. In what world is 16 points 12.5 rebounds 2.5 blocks at 62% FGs and 77% FTs struggling mightily as you claimed? Why not just admit you were wrong and move on.

I admit that I was wrong saying he was struggling mightly. I should have been writing that he has been racking empty stats in his contract year. Let's move on.

OK you have made a little progress. Still if his stats are empty so are Lillard's. Whiteside is playing very well and doing everything he can to help Portland win games.

minimus · Post #260 » by **minimus** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:25 pm

KGdaBom wrote:
minimus wrote:
KGdaBom wrote:You're doubling down on something so wrong. The latest on Whiteside from RotoWorld.

Hassan Whiteside finished Monday's win over the Suns with ten points (5-of-7 FGs), 14 rebounds, one steal and three blocked shots in 31 minutes.
Another game, another double-double for Whiteside as he posted his seventh straight in Monday's one-point win. Over the last month he's been outstanding, providing top-10 value in both eight- and nine-category formats. And given Portland's lack of depth in the post, with Skal Labissiere being the team's other available big, Whiteside will continue to have every opportunity to serve as the Blazers' anchor in the middle.
Dec 17, 2019, 2:08 AM ET

He's even been OK on his Free Throws this year at 77%. In what world is 16 points 12.5 rebounds 2.5 blocks at 62% FGs and 77% FTs struggling mightily as you claimed? Why not just admit you were wrong and move on.

I admit that I was wrong saying he was struggling mightly. I should have been writing that he has been racking empty stats in his contract year. Let's move on.

OK you have made a little progress. Still if his stats are empty so are Lillard's. Whiteside is playing very well and doing everything he can to help Portland win games.

Empty stats, empty stats... I remember that you wrote once that Westbrook is an elite PG because he racks many assists, rebounds and points. We argued back then. Have you made a little progress since then?