Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[payitforward]

IT suggesting he will he bought out/moved by the deadline ?

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We might get a top 60 protected pick for him, but the best thing we get will be a freed up roster spot.

Seems kind of obvious what he's saying: he's still finding his feet & thinks he's going to be a lot better by February.

Hope that is how it turns out; I'd love to see him resume his career at a higher level than the current one. He's been really bad this season.

In 2016-17, Isaiah scored 34 points per 40 minutes at a 62.7% TS% -- that's unheard of from a pg. You can tolerate bad defense from a guy scoring so much so efficiently.

[gambitx777]

IT for a second or two and bolden from the 76ers makes sense.

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[nate33]

IT for a second or two and bolden from the 76ers makes sense.

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Dude, nobody is going to give us a pick in exchange for Isaiah Thomas. Not the way he has played so far.

[nzahir]

IT has been that bad for you guys?

Offensive numbers seen fine, but defense is probably still pathetic

[Silvie Lysandra]

IT has been that bad for you guys?

Offensive numbers seen fine, but defense is probably still pathetic

IT is probably the worst player in the nba like he's literally a 4v6 on defense

[Silvie Lysandra]

IT has been that bad for you guys?

Offensive numbers seen fine, but defense is probably still pathetic

IT is probably the worst player in the nba like it might actually be better to play 4v5 defensively than to have him on the court

[nzahir]

IT has been that bad for you guys?

Offensive numbers seen fine, but defense is probably still pathetic

IT is probably the worst player in the nba like it might actually be better to play 4v5 defensively than to have him on the court

Damn, I just checked his RAPTOR and DRPM.

3rd worst in NBA for standard minutes rn (I thin about 300 min on yr) in defense. Teague is barely worse apparently and I think Rui.
2nd worst for pgs in DRPM. Trae was worse.

U on the side of keep Bertans or move him at high value

[nate33]

IT is probably the worst player in the nba like it might actually be better to play 4v5 defensively than to have him on the court

Damn, I just checked his RAPTOR and DRPM.

3rd worst in NBA for standard minutes rn (I thin about 300 min on yr) in defense. Teague is barely worse apparently and I think Rui.
2nd worst for pgs in DRPM. Trae was worse.

U on the side of keep Bertans or move him at high value

We will most likely keep him. Our issue is that we will be in "no man's land" as far as cap room next summer. We will be about $8M under the cap, which isn't enough to give us a competitive advantage ($8M is less than the MLE). Basically, we will have almost $40M in luxtax flexibility but no practical way to spend it other than the MLE and Bertans' Bird Rights. If we trade Bertans, there is no way for us to replace his production in free agency. And the team is trying to be legitimately good next year when Wall comes back.

It would definitely cost a 1st round pick to move him. And given our circumstances, I'm not sure even that would do it.

[payitforward]

...the team is trying to be legitimately good next year when Wall comes back....

nate -- not challenging this claim, but I don't remember any such explicit statement from Tommy. Now... my lack of a memory doesn't mean much, to tell the truth! It can take me a 1/2 hour to find my cup of coffee -- & that's starting 10 minutes after I put it down who knows where....

I do remember, quite specifically, that Tommy said "we're going to build this thing the right way: patiently." I wouldn't say there's a necessary contradiction between this statement & setting optimistic goals for next year. No one sets a next year goal to be bad! &, aside from anything else, common sense as a businessman calls for Ted to make maximally optimistic statements: he's not going to say "our product will stink next year."

What beats me, though, is how anyone can genuinely expect the team to be "legitimately good" next year. Where that means, say, earning home court advantage in R1 of the playoffs, even in the weak EC. We were #4 in our best year, & one of the teams ahead of us that year (the Cavs) is in rebuilding mode now. OTOH, 4 other teams -- Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Indy, Miami & Brooklyn -- are rebuilt to a state that I'd say there's no chance we pass them next year. Only... that's 5 teams not 4 come to think of it.

IOW, adding Boston & Toronto to that list, we look to have a chance to contend for the 8th spot in the playoffs. Assuming other rebuilding teams don't improve much, & a few of the other teams currently ahead of us (e.g. the Pistons -- only down .1 per game to the league -- or Orlando, down .6) aren't in a position to improve.

What will change for us next year? Wall will be back. We'll have another rookie or 2. Do you think the Wizards expect to be "legitimately good" based on those 2 developments? Do you think so yourself?

It would be great, of course. But, personally, I wonder whether "build this thing... patiently" might not be a more realistic approach. I.e. might be what they really have in mind?

[nate33]

...the team is trying to be legitimately good next year when Wall comes back....

nate -- not challenging this claim, but I don't remember any such explicit statement from Tommy. Now... my lack of a memory doesn't mean much, to tell the truth! It can take me a 1/2 hour to find my cup of coffee -- & that's starting 10 minutes after I put it down who knows where....

I do remember, quite specifically, that Tommy said "we're going to build this thing the right way: patiently." I wouldn't say there's a necessary contradiction between this statement & setting optimistic goals for next year. No one sets a next year goal to be bad! &, aside from anything else, common sense as a businessman calls for Ted to make maximally optimistic statements: he's not going to say "our product will stink next year."

What beats me, though, is how anyone can genuinely expect the team to be "legitimately good" next year. Where that means, say, earning home court advantage in R1 of the playoffs, even in the weak EC. We were #4 in our best year, & one of the teams ahead of us that year (the Cavs) is in rebuilding mode now. OTOH, 4 other teams -- Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Indy, Miami & Brooklyn -- are rebuilt to a state that I'd say there's no chance we pass them next year. Only... that's 5 teams not 4 come to think of it.

IOW, adding Boston & Toronto to that list, we look to have a chance to contend for the 8th spot in the playoffs. Assuming other rebuilding teams don't improve much, & a few of the other teams currently ahead of us (e.g. the Pistons -- only down .1 per game to the league -- or Orlando, down .6) aren't in a position to improve.

What will change for us next year? Wall will be back. We'll have another rookie or 2. Do you think the Wizards expect to be "legitimately good" based on those 2 developments? Do you think so yourself?

It would be great, of course. But, personally, I wonder whether "build this thing... patiently" might not be a more realistic approach. I.e. might be what they really have in mind?

When I say "legitimately good", I merely mean a playoff team with an above .500 record - not an actual contender. I think the team would be extremely disappointed if the Wizards were in the lottery in 2021.

I say this because I do not believe Beal signed up for a 3-year rebuild. If he was prepared for a rebuild, he would have signed a longer term deal, not a 1-year deal. The only rationale for his 1-year contract was that he expected to be pretty decent next year (i.e. a lower tier playoff team) and legitimately competitive the year after that (top 5 seed playoff team).

And I don't think that timeline is mutually exclusive with building patiently. We can do both. We can certainly retain Bertans as a free agent while planning to build toward the future. When Sheppard says building patiently, I think he really only means that we won't be trading picks and/or youth for win now vets in their late 20's/early 30's. He doesn't mean we will intentionally refrain from resigning good free agents with the goal of tanking for lotto picks.

[nzahir]

IT is probably the worst player in the nba like it might actually be better to play 4v5 defensively than to have him on the court

Damn, I just checked his RAPTOR and DRPM.

3rd worst in NBA for standard minutes rn (I thin about 300 min on yr) in defense. Teague is barely worse apparently and I think Rui.
2nd worst for pgs in DRPM. Trae was worse.

U on the side of keep Bertans or move him at high value

We will most likely keep him. Our issue is that we will be in "no man's land" as far as cap room next summer. We will be about $8M under the cap, which isn't enough to give us a competitive advantage ($8M is less than the MLE). Basically, we will have almost $40M in luxtax flexibility but no practical way to spend it other than the MLE and Bertans' Bird Rights. If we trade Bertans, there is no way for us to replace his production in free agency. And the team is trying to be legitimately good next year when Wall comes back.

It would definitely cost a 1st round pick to move him. And given our circumstances, I'm not sure even that would do it.

You guys have his bird rights though?

8M would not be enough as he should get 12M at minimum like JJ. Closer to 15M.

Just caps your team basically though if you use his bird rights to pay him what he should get

[nate33]

You guys have his bird rights though?

8M would not be enough as he should get 12M at minimum like JJ. Closer to 15M.

Just caps your team basically though if you use his bird rights to pay him what he should get

Yes, we have his Bird Rights so we can pay him whatever it takes.

I'm not sure how it caps our team. Even if we let him walk to preserve cap room, there's no foreseeable way to get max cap room and participate in the 2021 free agency sweepstakes unless we find a way to unload John Wall. And if we did that, why would a top tier free agent come to Washington to join Beal on a 30-win team?

[gambitx777]

The general consensus on IT is that he would be better off on a team where he just plays 10 minutes off the bench and gets to be a bit of a spark plug next to good defenders. Philly has that. But I also had an idea
Ish Smith for z.smoth and bolden and maybe a second from Phill y
Send IT to the Lakers for Horton Tucker maybe a second.
Move along with some younger guys and keep developing and hope for a good pick this year. To me the untouchable vets and Beal and bertains any one else over 25 is fair game imo

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[gambitx777]

I read a report that people are expecting bertains to get 15 - 20+ mill a year...... I have him valued at 12 - 15 a year for 3 years. But that's tops imo, if 20 mill the market should we think about trading him now? I don't want a Ryan Anderson on our hands and we can even afford 20 I think.

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[payitforward]

...the team is trying to be legitimately good next year when Wall comes back....

nate -- not challenging this claim, but I don't remember any such explicit statement from Tommy. Now... my lack of a memory doesn't mean much, to tell the truth! It can take me a 1/2 hour to find my cup of coffee -- & that's starting 10 minutes after I put it down who knows where....

I do remember, quite specifically, that Tommy said "we're going to build this thing the right way: patiently." I wouldn't say there's a necessary contradiction between this statement & setting optimistic goals for next year. No one sets a next year goal to be bad! &, aside from anything else, common sense as a businessman calls for Ted to make maximally optimistic statements: he's not going to say "our product will stink next year."

What beats me, though, is how anyone can genuinely expect the team to be "legitimately good" next year. Where that means, say, earning home court advantage in R1 of the playoffs, even in the weak EC. We were #4 in our best year, & one of the teams ahead of us that year (the Cavs) is in rebuilding mode now. OTOH, 4 other teams -- Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Indy, Miami & Brooklyn -- are rebuilt to a state that I'd say there's no chance we pass them next year. Only... that's 5 teams not 4 come to think of it.

IOW, adding Boston & Toronto to that list, we look to have a chance to contend for the 8th spot in the playoffs. Assuming other rebuilding teams don't improve much, & a few of the other teams currently ahead of us (e.g. the Pistons -- only down .1 per game to the league -- or Orlando, down .6) aren't in a position to improve.

What will change for us next year? Wall will be back. We'll have another rookie or 2. Do you think the Wizards expect to be "legitimately good" based on those 2 developments? Do you think so yourself?

It would be great, of course. But, personally, I wonder whether "build this thing... patiently" might not be a more realistic approach. I.e. might be what they really have in mind?

When I say "legitimately good", I merely mean a playoff team with an above .500 record - not an actual contender. I think the team would be extremely disappointed if the Wizards were in the lottery in 2021.

I say this because I do not believe Beal signed up for a 3-year rebuild. If he was prepared for a rebuild, he would have signed a longer term deal, not a 1-year deal. The only rationale for his 1-year contract was that he expected to be pretty decent next year (i.e. a lower tier playoff team) and legitimately competitive the year after that (top 5 seed playoff team).

And I don't think that timeline is mutually exclusive with building patiently. We can do both. We can certainly retain Bertans as a free agent while planning to build toward the future. When Sheppard says building patiently, I think he really only means that we won't be trading picks and/or youth for win now vets in their late 20's/early 30's. He doesn't mean we will intentionally refrain from resigning good free agents with the goal of tanking for lotto picks.

Got it. Perhaps I'm too pessimistic, but it's that goal for next year (to have a winning record) I'm skeptical of. Of course I could be mistaken! Let's hope so....

[Wizardspride]

...the team is trying to be legitimately good next year when Wall comes back....

nate -- not challenging this claim, but I don't remember any such explicit statement from Tommy. Now... my lack of a memory doesn't mean much, to tell the truth! It can take me a 1/2 hour to find my cup of coffee -- & that's starting 10 minutes after I put it down who knows where....

I do remember, quite specifically, that Tommy said "we're going to build this thing the right way: patiently." I wouldn't say there's a necessary contradiction between this statement & setting optimistic goals for next year. No one sets a next year goal to be bad! &, aside from anything else, common sense as a businessman calls for Ted to make maximally optimistic statements: he's not going to say "our product will stink next year."

What beats me, though, is how anyone can genuinely expect the team to be "legitimately good" next year. Where that means, say, earning home court advantage in R1 of the playoffs, even in the weak EC. We were #4 in our best year, & one of the teams ahead of us that year (the Cavs) is in rebuilding mode now. OTOH, 4 other teams -- Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Indy, Miami & Brooklyn -- are rebuilt to a state that I'd say there's no chance we pass them next year. Only... that's 5 teams not 4 come to think of it.

IOW, adding Boston & Toronto to that list, we look to have a chance to contend for the 8th spot in the playoffs. Assuming other rebuilding teams don't improve much, & a few of the other teams currently ahead of us (e.g. the Pistons -- only down .1 per game to the league -- or Orlando, down .6) aren't in a position to improve.

What will change for us next year? Wall will be back. We'll have another rookie or 2. Do you think the Wizards expect to be "legitimately good" based on those 2 developments? Do you think so yourself?

It would be great, of course. But, personally, I wonder whether "build this thing... patiently" might not be a more realistic approach. I.e. might be what they really have in mind?

When I say "legitimately good", I merely mean a playoff team with an above .500 record - not an actual contender. I think the team would be extremely disappointed if the Wizards were in the lottery in 2021.

I say this because I do not believe Beal signed up for a 3-year rebuild. If he was prepared for a rebuild, he would have signed a longer term deal, not a 1-year deal. The only rationale for his 1-year contract was that he expected to be pretty decent next year (i.e. a lower tier playoff team) and legitimately competitive the year after that (top 5 seed playoff team).

And I don't think that timeline is mutually exclusive with building patiently. We can do both. We can certainly retain Bertans as a free agent while planning to build toward the future. When Sheppard says building patiently, I think he really only means that we won't be trading picks and/or youth for win now vets in their late 20's/early 30's. He doesn't mean we will intentionally refrain from resigning good free agents with the goal of tanking for lotto picks.

This is accurate.

According to various reports, Ted and Tommy sold Bradley on this being a short rebuild.

[payitforward]

Well... you can call it anything you want! Goes w/o saying. The question is what's really going to happen.

If we have an above .500 record next year that will be great. Is that what you are predicting, btw? That we'll have an above .500 record next year?

One more question: I keep hearing about these "reports." Can you link to any articles that confirm Tommy/Ted "selling" Brad on this being a one-year reset?

Personally, I think Brad's a smart guy: he can see who is on the roster & what the team's assets are going forward. I don't think Ted and Tommy would be able to "sell him" on anything. But, hey, that's just me.

[nate33]

I'm not even sure if I like this, but I'm throwing it out there for consideration. It's a one step back for two steps forward type of move:

Washington trades:
Thomas Bryant
Davis Bertans

Houston trades:
Clint Capela
HOU 2020 1st

I don't think that Bryant and Wagner are a great pairing. Both are offensive-minded and neither are rim protectors. Trading one for a rim protector would significantly boost our defense. Capela is still very young and quite good. He'd also be a great rim runner alongside Wall. He's a bit expensive at roughly $17M a year but defense at the center position costs money. We also get another 1st round pick which will probably be in the 20-24 range.

I hate giving up Bertans because I really do think he can become a featured starter rather than just a 6th man. My real concern is somebody like Charlotte offering him $20M+ a year for him and us letting him walk for nothing.

Houston does this because Bertans' shooting would make them virtually unstoppable. Bryant fills in for Capela as a very good offensive roll man. He's not as good defensively, but Houston likes to play smallball with Tucker at the 5 in crunch time anyhow.

[trast66]

I'm not even sure if I like this, but I'm throwing it out there for consideration. It's a one step back for two steps forward type of move:

Washington trades:
Thomas Bryant
Davis Bertans

Houston trades:
Clint Capela
HOU 2020 1st

I don't think that Bryant and Wagner are a great pairing. Both are offensive-minded and neither are rim protectors. Trading one for a rim protector would significantly boost our defense. Capela is still very young and quite good. He'd also be a great rim runner alongside Wall. He's a bit expensive at roughly $17M a year but defense at the center position costs money. We also get another 1st round pick which will probably be in the 20-24 range.

I hate giving up Bertans because I really do think he can become a featured starter rather than just a 6th man. My real concern is somebody like Charlotte offering him $20M+ a year for him and us letting him walk for nothing.

Houston does this because Bertans' shooting would make them virtually unstoppable. Bryant fills in for Capela as a very good offensive roll man. He's not as good defensively, but Houston likes to play smallball with Tucker at the 5 in crunch time anyhow.

Houston is going to make a trade so brainstorming on their roster makes sense. I'd love to get Capela, Morey seems to really love him though, but that guy would trade his mother.

Can they trade their 2020 pick? I think they owe their 2021 to somebody.

[nate33]

I'm not even sure if I like this, but I'm throwing it out there for consideration. It's a one step back for two steps forward type of move:

Washington trades:
Thomas Bryant
Davis Bertans

Houston trades:
Clint Capela
HOU 2020 1st

I don't think that Bryant and Wagner are a great pairing. Both are offensive-minded and neither are rim protectors. Trading one for a rim protector would significantly boost our defense. Capela is still very young and quite good. He'd also be a great rim runner alongside Wall. He's a bit expensive at roughly $17M a year but defense at the center position costs money. We also get another 1st round pick which will probably be in the 20-24 range.

I hate giving up Bertans because I really do think he can become a featured starter rather than just a 6th man. My real concern is somebody like Charlotte offering him $20M+ a year for him and us letting him walk for nothing.

Houston does this because Bertans' shooting would make them virtually unstoppable. Bryant fills in for Capela as a very good offensive roll man. He's not as good defensively, but Houston likes to play smallball with Tucker at the 5 in crunch time anyhow.

Houston is going to make a trade so brainstorming on their roster makes sense. I'd love to get Capela, Morey seems to really love him though, but that guy would trade his mother.

Can they trade their 2020 pick? I think they owe their 2021 to somebody.

I think that 2021 pick is a pick swap. Which means their 2020 pick is still free to be traded.

Houston is one of very few contenders who have a 2020 pick to trade.