Grading the FO moves and coaching so far

[bwgood77]

Somehow all people in the organization have a very bad eye for basketball despite being ex-players, so they can't figure out Mikal is not only a better fit, but also much better player. Or maybe they see something that all the advanced stat gurus don't see. Not sure. I would wait for Bridges to break the 10ppg barrier before using any kind of stats to show he's a better O player than Oubre, who happens to create his own shot.

Yeah, not sure why the people in the organization can't see it. I imagine the injury to Mikal in preseason and the early struggle with the shot hurt, but hopefully they see it soon.

Doesn't matter if you can create your own shot if you are not as efficient as teammates who should be taking them. He plays 1 on 1 ball (or 1 on 3 or 4). I didn't much like when Booker did it, but I sure as hell would rather see that than Oubre trying it in an ugly way.

I am pretty surprised people judge how good players are so much on PPG these days.

I judge the players only based on what I see.

The advanced stats will only tell you Mikal is efficient on O in the Spurs game(one putback), while you can see he's a no-show once again.

You also greatly overrate his D. Once again nothing special 1-on-1, Derozan scored with easy on two occasions against him. They don't even use him to defend the best player most of the time, which should be the case if he really was anything close to elite on D.

At this point I'll take CJ before the other two SFs.

Weird you don't think he's a great defender, but not worth arguing that. Again Bridges doesn't show up? Sure, he may not be taking shots, and is only 1-2, but Oubre is 2-10. I'd rather the former , by A LOT.

[sunsbg]

Weird you don't think he's a great defender, but not worth arguing that. Again Bridges doesn't show up? Sure, he may not be taking shots, and is only 1-2, but Oubre is 2-10. I'd rather the former , by A LOT.

Yeah, no point in arguing. Already said it several times, I will look at Bridges' D as anything special when I see him shutdown/slowdown an elite offensive player. Not happened so far. He's O is in-existant, so there is nothing to talk on this side.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I was/am a big Bridges guy but come on now, he's **** terrible offensively this season. He clearly developed the yips shooting at some point and needs to figure that **** out. Hell I think he would agree if you asked him.

Oubre should start but if you want to argue a replacement Cam would be ahead of Bridges for me.

This is something I wouldn't believe I would be saying a couple months ago but if there was a trade right now and the other team demanded one of Bridges or Cam I give them Bridges and it really wouldn't be a debate.

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[bwgood77]

I was/am a big Bridges guy but come on now, he's **** terrible offensively this season. He clearly developed the yips shooting at some point and needs to figure that **** out. Hell I think he would agree if you asked him.

Oubre should start but if you want to argue a replacement Cam would be ahead of Bridges for me.

This is something I wouldn't believe I would be saying a couple months ago but if there was a trade right now and the other team demanded one of Bridges or Cam I give them Bridges and it really wouldn't be a debate.

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Seems like a strange take after Bridges shot from 3 has improved, especially in relation to Oubre, who is shooting terribly. Bridges is shooting at quite a better rate overall from the entire floor for the season, especially lately. Finishing near the rim he's in a different stratosphere. Definitely better defensively and more a team player. I guess it just depends on preference of the type of player you like.

Bridges would have the most trade value by a fair amount though, but I wouldn't trade him. Oubre would likely have the least, and you probably wouldn't net much, though I'd still probably trade him first. I think our efficiency in the starting unit will suffer from him taking shots away from Ayton and Booker. The fact Bridges doesn't take a lot of shots, but plays within the team and defends very well works from that standpoint.

[bwgood77]

Someone mentioned Baynes being such a different player without Rubio and I hadn't really thought about that, but hell, it's quite a coincidence how much better we were with the same players with just him as the starter. Now I know he has returned from injury, and that he's prepping Baynes for the second unit, but it's really about winning every game you can. He will learn to play with second unit.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I was/am a big Bridges guy but come on now, he's **** terrible offensively this season. He clearly developed the yips shooting at some point and needs to figure that **** out. Hell I think he would agree if you asked him.

Oubre should start but if you want to argue a replacement Cam would be ahead of Bridges for me.

This is something I wouldn't believe I would be saying a couple months ago but if there was a trade right now and the other team demanded one of Bridges or Cam I give them Bridges and it really wouldn't be a debate.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Seems like a strange take after Bridges shot from 3 has improved, especially in relation to Oubre, who is shooting terribly. Bridges is shooting at quite a better rate overall from the entire floor for the season, especially lately. Finishing near the rim he's in a different stratosphere. Definitely better defensively and more a team player. I guess it just depends on preference of the type of player you like.

Bridges would have the most trade value by a fair amount though, but I wouldn't trade him. Oubre would likely have the least, and you probably wouldn't net much, though I'd still probably trade him first. I think our efficiency in the starting unit will suffer from him taking shots away from Ayton and Booker. The fact Bridges doesn't take a lot of shots, but plays within the team and defends very well works from that standpoint.

Might be I'm just really disappointed in Bridges. Hell I think this summer Ipredicted he would be their best player this year. Even tonight where overall he was fine he took 3 **** shots in a game where booker didn't play, that's just unacceptable.

You have a bias against oubre, you've disliked him since the day he became a sun. That's fine we all have our guys we like and dislike. Yes he can do some dumb **** but at least he tries to go win a game. I also respect his passion and I really think he was the first sun in a long time to actually believe in this franchise.

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[sunsbg]

I was/am a big Bridges guy but come on now, he's **** terrible offensively this season. He clearly developed the yips shooting at some point and needs to figure that **** out. Hell I think he would agree if you asked him.

Oubre should start but if you want to argue a replacement Cam would be ahead of Bridges for me.

This is something I wouldn't believe I would be saying a couple months ago but if there was a trade right now and the other team demanded one of Bridges or Cam I give them Bridges and it really wouldn't be a debate.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Seems like a strange take after Bridges shot from 3 has improved, especially in relation to Oubre, who is shooting terribly. Bridges is shooting at quite a better rate overall from the entire floor for the season, especially lately. Finishing near the rim he's in a different stratosphere. Definitely better defensively and more a team player. I guess it just depends on preference of the type of player you like.

Bridges would have the most trade value by a fair amount though, but I wouldn't trade him. Oubre would likely have the least, and you probably wouldn't net much, though I'd still probably trade him first. I think our efficiency in the starting unit will suffer from him taking shots away from Ayton and Booker. The fact Bridges doesn't take a lot of shots, but plays within the team and defends very well works from that standpoint.

You live in some other reality when it comes to specific players. Bender, now Bridges. Different stratosphere. LOL

Also Bridges' defense once again exposed later in a game.

[Bogyo]

C- on both.
I'm not impressed with the asset management of the FO (trades, draft,FA signings). They did raise our floor, but that's not anything special after last 2 years turd. Anyone on that board could have done that if given a chance, in a million different ways. You just had to sign a PG, and a PF and get some vets. Done. Nothing to see, move along. They did not hit the ball out of the park with anything, and in some cases laid an egg. (TJ trade, draft picks - Jerome is a bust, sorry, he is too slow).
I guess I'll wait until trade deadline, and see if they do anything, something very "easy to see" with the TJ contract, or get funky with other stuff and try to land a 3rd star somehow (Oubre, fillers, draftpicks), or just sit on their hands (likely).

Same goes for coaching. By now sometimes I wonder how much is Monty really better than Igor was, or is it only that he connects better with the players due to his background (he is not the eastern european guy with the funny accent), becouse player management, rotations, etc... is just as questionable in my opinion. Difference is, that he has a couple NBA caliber players who can execute (most of) the gameplan, 0.5 offense, and play some D sometimes - all what even Igor was saying in the begining, until he realized his starting PG is (i can't even f'ing remember who our starting PG was) whoeveritwas, and our PF rotation is Bender and Chriss...
I guess I'll wait until we are back at full strenght, and played about 5-10 games and see how he does with the rotations then. In theory the guys do not really need a lot of time together, as they have been practicing with Ayton all along the way.

[bwgood77]

Might be I'm just really disappointed in Bridges. Hell I think this summer Ipredicted he would be their best player this year. Even tonight where overall he was fine he took 3 **** shots in a game where booker didn't play, that's just unacceptable.

You have a bias against oubre, you've disliked him since the day he became a sun. That's fine we all have our guys we like and dislike. Yes he can do some dumb **** but at least he tries to go win a game. I also respect his passion and I really think he was the first sun in a long time to actually believe in this franchise.

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I don't have bias against Oubre personally, just in general with low IQ players. But when people argue like he's great and have obvious bias as if they are related, etc, it just isn't genuine based on his play.

I do think Briges should take more shots, but I liked him last year, and he's taking more per 36 than he did last year. He had 5 double digit game recently and in the first 3 he took around 10 shots a game, then in the second two scored 11 and 14 on 5 or 6 shots.

The main reason his shots are down in games (not per 36) is because his minutes dropped from almost 30 in 20.

But he's improved a great deal in defense this year, gone up from where he was in TS% from last year to this year (55.6 to 59/1%), a bit better than Booker's jump in that cat last year.

2pt% from last year to this year from 54.8% to 59.3%. At rim 64.7% to 68.9%. Oubre at rim is 58.4%.

Bridges defensive rating went from 114 to 107, DBPM from .3 to 2.1.


Now I do like the energy Oubre brings and his confidence to take that shot at the end, and it really served us well in the Charlotte game, and could have last night.

Spoiler:

And I understand those of the fans here who mostly care more about ppg as a lot of people look at things that way.

It's ok for us to value different things and appreciate what different people can do. A lot of people prefer Bridges and a lot prefer Oubre. Many of the new fans, particularly the newer ones, don't really like the low IQ play and would rather start Bridges. Many others would prefer to start Oubre.

I really think Oubre would be a nice injection of energy off the bench, and perhaps a guy to be in the lineup to close games if we needed a big shot with confidence over defense to protect a lead.

Bridges started off the season putrid from 3 for whatever reason, but luckily has fixed that. Not sure why people would have problems with him now, though I do agree he should have taken more than 3 shots last night.

Spoiler:

Even that RAPTOR rating places Bridges 5 year value at $110 million and an up n comer and Oubre's value at $56 million and as a rotation player.

I see arguments about not being good defensively because he doesn't shut down an elite player...no one does this, or very few do. Oubre certainly can't do that and has far less chance of doing it. He just gambles and often loses his players. That just takes eyes to recognize.

Spoiler:

There seems to be high bias against Bridges for some reason from some and I understand complaints about the early shooting and only taking a few last night. Part of that is Rubio taking 20, Frank at 19 and Saric at 17....and all were efficient, so that's fine and made sense to feed them. Oubre took 15 as well, making 5 but we know he will always take shots regardless of efficiency or whether they are good or terrible shots to be attempting.

But never been a fan of low IQ players. There is a reason the Wizards gave him away for an expiring. I know part of it was salary cap but if they valued him they keep him. Fans were frustrated too. Said he'd have one or a few good games and then a bunch of terrible games. I imagine at some point that will come with more fans as it already has for many. Especially when we have Ayton back who should be taking the most shots, or just there right behind Booker.

[hollywood6964]

Might be I'm just really disappointed in Bridges. Hell I think this summer Ipredicted he would be their best player this year. Even tonight where overall he was fine he took 3 **** shots in a game where booker didn't play, that's just unacceptable.

You have a bias against oubre, you've disliked him since the day he became a sun. That's fine we all have our guys we like and dislike. Yes he can do some dumb **** but at least he tries to go win a game. I also respect his passion and I really think he was the first sun in a long time to actually believe in this franchise.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I don't have bias against Oubre personally, just in general with low IQ players. But when people argue like he's great and have obvious bias as if they are related, etc, it just isn't genuine based on his play.

I do think Briges should take more shots, but I liked him last year, and he's taking more per 36 than he did last year. He had 5 double digit game recently and in the first 3 he took around 10 shots a game, then in the second two scored 11 and 14 on 5 or 6 shots.

The main reason his shots are down in games (not per 36) is because his minutes dropped from almost 30 in 20.

But he's improved a great deal in defense this year, gone up from where he was in TS% from last year to this year (55.6 to 59/1%), a bit better than Booker's jump in that cat last year.

2pt% from last year to this year from 54.8% to 59.3%. At rim 64.7% to 68.9%. Oubre at rim is 58.4%.

Bridges defensive rating went from 114 to 107, DBPM from .3 to 2.1.


Now I do like the energy Oubre brings and his confidence to take that shot at the end, and it really served us well in the Charlotte game, and could have last night.

Spoiler:

And I understand those of the fans here who mostly care more about ppg as a lot of people look at things that way.

It's ok for us to value different things and appreciate what different people can do. A lot of people prefer Bridges and a lot prefer Oubre. Many of the new fans, particularly the newer ones, don't really like the low IQ play and would rather start Bridges. Many others would prefer to start Oubre.

I really think Oubre would be a nice injection of energy off the bench, and perhaps a guy to be in the lineup to close games if we needed a big shot with confidence over defense to protect a lead.

Bridges started off the season putrid from 3 for whatever reason, but luckily has fixed that. Not sure why people would have problems with him now, though I do agree he should have taken more than 3 shots last night.

Spoiler:

Even that RAPTOR rating places Bridges 5 year value at $110 million and an up n comer and Oubre's value at $56 million and as a rotation player.

I see arguments about not being good defensively because he doesn't shut down an elite player...no one does this, or very few do. Oubre certainly can't do that and has far less chance of doing it. He just gambles and often loses his players. That just takes eyes to recognize.

Spoiler:

There seems to be high bias against Bridges for some reason from some and I understand complaints about the early shooting and only taking a few last night. Part of that is Rubio taking 20, Frank at 19 and Saric at 17....and all were efficient, so that's fine and made sense to feed them. Oubre took 15 as well, making 5 but we know he will always take shots regardless of efficiency or whether they are good or terrible shots to be attempting.

But never been a fan of low IQ players. There is a reason the Wizards gave him away for an expiring. I know part of it was salary cap but if they valued him they keep him. Fans were frustrated too. Said he'd have one or a few good games and then a bunch of terrible games. I imagine at some point that will come with more fans as it already has for many. Especially when we have Ayton back who should be taking the most shots, or just there right behind Booker.

Your one point about shots being taken by ayton n Booker is the main reason why oubre should come off the pine. His value will be utilized in that situation. We won't need him as much in the starting lineup when healthy (crunch time yes- he is a shot maker), which is why Bridges will be a perfect fit as a 3 n d role sf...... Now last night, when we needed Bridges, he was trash, and his execution towards the end was a dumpster fire. So I can see why in the heat of the moment, people would want to keep Bridges at 18-20mpg.

IDK if monty will do that, because oubre fancies himself as a starter, and it may not fly too well, and may figure why **** up the chemistry. In the end, this may be the right decision.

[Crunch 99]

I think your front office did a nice job assembling a roster, and Monty is doing a pretty good job letting Rubio be Rubio. Rubio had a lot of turnovers against Portland last night, but for the season, his assist to turnover ratio has been about double what it was with the Jazz, so the Suns are getting a lot out of him. I expect his shooting percentages will come up some too when he gets Ayton, Booker and the full roster playing alongside him.

I really hope the Suns have good health the rest of the way and make a push to get in the playoffs. Rubio is one of my favorite players to watch play basketball.