Tuesday game thread discussion

[youngcrev]

it's the horford-embiid-simmons combo that seems to have issues. simmons-embiid without horford has performed well. i'd see about trading horford for a wing if i was philly before a simmons desperation move. they were a bounce away from the ECF.

Yup. Or a PG that can play on and off the ball.

Minus a trade, I think they should look at bringing Al off the bench (if he'd accept that role). Give him all the backup center minutes and some minutes at the 4 when Ben is off the floor. Probably still have him out there to end games.

[youngcrev]

Sixers defense is elite.

Sixers offense is 3rd in assists(26.7), 3rd in fg %(47.7) and 5th in 3 pt %(37.0).

Yes the team that everyone says has no shooters and cant space the floor is 5th in 3pt %.

27th in 3 point attempts. They pretty clearly have spacing issues, particularly with the starting lineup. The lack of perimeter shooting and playmaking aren't made up issues. It'll be interesting to see if they make a move to address it or just bet on their size and defense being able to overcome it during the playoffs.

[jcuuofd]

The 76ers will be fine after they trade one of their role players for a point guard. Power forwards should never be asked to play point guard. The Bucks also tried to have Giannis play point guard and it did not work, but when they traded for Eric Bledsoe they became a much better team. The 76ers should keep Horford because both Simmons and Embiid are injury prone and Horford can play power forward and center. Even with with Simmons and Embiid being healthy, Horford is a good fit because he can play backup for power forward and center which makes for good rotations and gives rest to Simmons and Embiid which will help to prevent them from being injured because of too many minutes.

[76ersForLife]

Sixers defense is elite.

Sixers offense is 3rd in assists(26.7), 3rd in fg %(47.7) and 5th in 3 pt %(37.0).

Yes the team that everyone says has no shooters and cant space the floor is 5th in 3pt %.

27th in 3 point attempts. They pretty clearly have spacing issues, particularly with the starting lineup. The lack of perimeter shooting and playmaking aren't made up issues. It'll be interesting to see if they make a move to address it or just bet on their size and defense being able to overcome it during the playoffs.

If the spacing issues are so bad than how are they 3rd in assists? A lack of spacing should cause a lack of ball movement and lower % 3's because they are contested.

[youngcrev]

Sixers defense is elite.

Sixers offense is 3rd in assists(26.7), 3rd in fg %(47.7) and 5th in 3 pt %(37.0).

Yes the team that everyone says has no shooters and cant space the floor is 5th in 3pt %.

27th in 3 point attempts. They pretty clearly have spacing issues, particularly with the starting lineup. The lack of perimeter shooting and playmaking aren't made up issues. It'll be interesting to see if they make a move to address it or just bet on their size and defense being able to overcome it during the playoffs.

If the spacing issues are so bad than how are they 3rd in assists? A lack of spacing should cause a lack of ball movement and lower % 3's because they are contested.

Huh? I disagree that those things are correlated. They're near the top of the league in assists because they run a pass heavy system with limited amounts of isolations and pick and rolls.

[Clay Davis]

Sixers defense is elite.

Sixers offense is 3rd in assists(26.7), 3rd in fg %(47.7) and 5th in 3 pt %(37.0).

Yes the team that everyone says has no shooters and cant space the floor is 5th in 3pt %.

27th in 3 point attempts. They pretty clearly have spacing issues, particularly with the starting lineup. The lack of perimeter shooting and playmaking aren't made up issues. It'll be interesting to see if they make a move to address it or just bet on their size and defense being able to overcome it during the playoffs.

If the spacing issues are so bad than how are they 3rd in assists? A lack of spacing should cause a lack of ball movement and lower % 3's because they are contested.

Have you ever heard of a team called the 'Houston Rockets'?

[21 TD]

Beal or Booker is probably the best theoretical future trade at the moment, but the 76ers aren't at that point yet and I'm not sure they should get to it.

On the one hand, Embiid and Simmons have no chance to win championship together unless the latter becomes a credible range shooter and the former is clearly their best player.

On the other hand, he has durability concerns and will probably not have longevity, so it's probably smarter to pick the latter, who has Antetokounmpo lite potential if his team is structured similarly to his.

It's difficult to trade an elite talent like either though, especially when they're both still young. But if they wait too long, pick Simmons and Embiid can't hold up and thus has his trade value plummet, they could be damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[sixerswillrule]

Sixers defense is elite.

Sixers offense is 3rd in assists(26.7), 3rd in fg %(47.7) and 5th in 3 pt %(37.0).

Yes the team that everyone says has no shooters and cant space the floor is 5th in 3pt %.

27th in 3 point attempts. They pretty clearly have spacing issues, particularly with the starting lineup. The lack of perimeter shooting and playmaking aren't made up issues. It'll be interesting to see if they make a move to address it or just bet on their size and defense being able to overcome it during the playoffs.

Crazy how a team where 9 of the 10 players in the rotation shoots threes is near the bottom of the league in three point attempts. Shows you where the league is at today.

[durden_tyler]

i think the OP has a point. However, this year can still be your last year for the Embiid-Simmons experiment. If you can't get out of the East without LeBron, perhaps it's time to explore tweaking your line-up, including the core players.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

If that is how teams and the media look at first picks, it might explain why there are so many busts and why the talking heads are laughed at today vs respected. Because a draymond green peak for multiple years would be better than most first overall picks.

Number 1 picks are expected to be able to carry the scoring load and have players put around them. Draymond at his peak was not a franchise player which is what you're hoping to get in the draft, he was a great roleplayer that you put around those number 1 type of guys. A team built solely around Draymond would have been terrible.

Number 1 picks are expected to become top 10 players in the nba and make all nba teams. Just like Green has done. This idiotic idea they have to score is absurd. Oden was one of the most hyped and talked about prospects of all time and the BIG question was if he could become an elite scorer. That was a HUGE question.

At no point in time was Draymond a top 10 player, right now Ben Simmons isn't a top 20 player either and has been passed by guys in his own draft class. The expectation was that Oden could develop into a 20-23ppg scorer ala Dwight Howard which is why he was the top pick, if his offensive potential were viewed as limited he wouldn't have gone 1.

Draymond exceeded expectations based on where he was drafted, if you say Ben has lived up to the expectations of a number 1 pick you'd be lying.

[dhsilv2]

Number 1 picks are expected to be able to carry the scoring load and have players put around them. Draymond at his peak was not a franchise player which is what you're hoping to get in the draft, he was a great roleplayer that you put around those number 1 type of guys. A team built solely around Draymond would have been terrible.

Number 1 picks are expected to become top 10 players in the nba and make all nba teams. Just like Green has done. This idiotic idea they have to score is absurd. Oden was one of the most hyped and talked about prospects of all time and the BIG question was if he could become an elite scorer. That was a HUGE question.

At no point in time was Draymond a top 10 player, right now Ben Simmons isn't a top 20 player either and has been passed by guys in his own draft class. The expectation was that Oden could develop into a 20-23ppg scorer ala Dwight Howard which is why he was the top pick, if his offensive potential were viewed as limited he wouldn't have gone 1.

Draymond exceeded expectations based on where he was drafted, if you say Ben has lived up to the expectations of a number 1 pick you'd be lying.

If Simmons reaches peak 2016 Draymond green and can maintain that level for 5 or so years, he'll be a hall of fame lock and will have absolutely lived up to what a team needs out of a first overall pick. This just isn't debatable. We can go through every first pick in nba history...I'm not even sure half had a 5 year run that strong.

[Jamaaliver]

Trade Simmons for floor-spacing guards and the offense will open up.

Otherwise, this will remain as the default setting to beat Philly in the playoffs.

Heat rely on zone defense to deal 76ers first loss at home this season

The Philadelphia 76ers entered Wednesday night as the only unbeaten team at home in the NBA.

It turned out, however, the Miami Heat had just the thing to trip up the Sixers: zone defense.

Miami employed the zone liberally Wednesday night, using it on 39 possessions, per Second Spectrum -- more than any team in a single game this season -- as the Heat built a 16-point fourth-quarter lead before hanging on to win 108-104 at Wells Fargo Center...

Wednesday night, though, was a very different story. To combat Embiid's massive size advantage in the middle, the Heat employed a zone on 40% of their defensive possessions -- and held the Sixers to 12-for-32 shooting (38%), including 7-for-21 from 3-point range.

On the 59 possessions the Heat played man-to-man defense, the Sixers shot 26-for-58 (45%). More importantly, their average distance from the basket per shot, per Second Spectrum, was 12.3 feet -- compared to 19.7 feet against the zone.

In other words: The Sixers settled for one jumper after another and didn't make enough of them.

ESPN Insider

[NoDopeOnSundays]

No version of Draymond is worth a number 1 pick, there isn't even a draft in the last 15 yrs you can say he should have been 1. Nevermind the circumstance of being drafted by the perfect team to maximize his talent and hide his weaknesses.

Another game for Simmons against a good opponent and another game where he hurts his team because of his refusal to shoot. He had 0 pts and 1 assist in the 4th quarter last night and passed the ball out rather than drive on a 6'3 guard with an open lane. The Heat zone was so effective because a "PG" was camped out on the low block whenever he didn't have the ball, he's just not good.

Number 1 picks are expected to become top 10 players in the nba and make all nba teams. Just like Green has done. This idiotic idea they have to score is absurd. Oden was one of the most hyped and talked about prospects of all time and the BIG question was if he could become an elite scorer. That was a HUGE question.

At no point in time was Draymond a top 10 player, right now Ben Simmons isn't a top 20 player either and has been passed by guys in his own draft class. The expectation was that Oden could develop into a 20-23ppg scorer ala Dwight Howard which is why he was the top pick, if his offensive potential were viewed as limited he wouldn't have gone 1.

Draymond exceeded expectations based on where he was drafted, if you say Ben has lived up to the expectations of a number 1 pick you'd be lying.

If Simmons reaches peak 2016 Draymond green and can maintain that level for 5 or so years, he'll be a hall of fame lock and will have absolutely lived up to what a team needs out of a first overall pick. This just isn't debatable. We can go through every first pick in nba history...I'm not even sure half had a 5 year run that strong.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using RealGM mobile app

[dhsilv2]

No version of Draymond is worth a number 1 pick, there isn't even a draft in the last 15 yrs you can say he should have been 1. Nevermind the circumstance of being drafted by the perfect team to maximize his talent and hide his weaknesses.

Another game for Simmons against a good opponent and another game where he hurts his team because of his refusal to shoot. He had 0 pts and 1 assist in the 4th quarter last night and passed the ball out rather than drive on a 6'3 guard with an open lane. The Heat zone was so effective because a "PG" was camped out on the low block whenever he didn't have the ball, he's just not good.

At no point in time was Draymond a top 10 player, right now Ben Simmons isn't a top 20 player either and has been passed by guys in his own draft class. The expectation was that Oden could develop into a 20-23ppg scorer ala Dwight Howard which is why he was the top pick, if his offensive potential were viewed as limited he wouldn't have gone 1.

Draymond exceeded expectations based on where he was drafted, if you say Ben has lived up to the expectations of a number 1 pick you'd be lying.

If Simmons reaches peak 2016 Draymond green and can maintain that level for 5 or so years, he'll be a hall of fame lock and will have absolutely lived up to what a team needs out of a first overall pick. This just isn't debatable. We can go through every first pick in nba history...I'm not even sure half had a 5 year run that strong.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using RealGM mobile app

Drafts we can discuss.

remember we are discussing a peak level dray for 5+ seasons, not actually dray.

2000 - Kenyon Martin. Dray is better
2001 - Kwame Brown. Dray is better
2002 - Ming Ming
2003 - lebron
2004 - Howard
2005 - Bogut - dray is better
2006 - Bargnani - Dray is better
2007 - Oden - Dray is better
2008 - Derrick Rose - sadly due to injuries Dray is better
2009 - Griffin - close enough to debate but lets go Griffin
2010 - Wall - Gotta go dray here
2011 - Irving - again we'd have to go with hypothetical dray
2012 - Davis
2013 - Anthony Bennett - Dray clearly lol
2014 - Wiggins - easy dray
2015 - KAT

So we have 16 drafts with enough time to make a decent to full judgement on careers.

we have 8 absolute no question this hypothetical 5 year's of peak Dray would be better than the actual first pick. Then we have 2-3 that we could debate.

[Jamaaliver]

Another game for Simmons against a good opponent and another game where he hurts his team because of his refusal to shoot. He had 0 pts and 1 assist in the 4th quarter last night and passed the ball out rather than drive on a 6'3 guard with an open lane...he's just not good.

I don't think it's credible to say Ben Simmons isn't good at basketball. He clearly has weaknesses that can be exploited, but he's a top 25 player in the league.

He is being miscast as a perimeter player. Flank him alongside 4 shooters, play him at PF in a manner comparable to Giannis -- he's easily a 20-point triple double monster.

Easily.

[igorbianch]

No version of Draymond is worth a number 1 pick, there isn't even a draft in the last 15 yrs you can say he should have been 1. Nevermind the circumstance of being drafted by the perfect team to maximize his talent and hide his weaknesses.

Another game for Simmons against a good opponent and another game where he hurts his team because of his refusal to shoot. He had 0 pts and 1 assist in the 4th quarter last night and passed the ball out rather than drive on a 6'3 guard with an open lane. The Heat zone was so effective because a "PG" was camped out on the low block whenever he didn't have the ball, he's just not good.

If Simmons reaches peak 2016 Draymond green and can maintain that level for 5 or so years, he'll be a hall of fame lock and will have absolutely lived up to what a team needs out of a first overall pick. This just isn't debatable. We can go through every first pick in nba history...I'm not even sure half had a 5 year run that strong.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using RealGM mobile app

Drafts we can discuss.

remember we are discussing a peak level dray for 5+ seasons, not actually dray.

2000 - Kenyon Martin. Dray is better
2001 - Kwame Brown. Dray is better
2002 - Ming Ming
2003 - lebron
2004 - Howard
2005 - Bogut - dray is better
2006 - Bargnani - Dray is better
2007 - Oden - Dray is better
2008 - Derrick Rose - sadly due to injuries Dray is better
2009 - Griffin - close enough to debate but lets go Griffin
2010 - Wall - Gotta go dray here
2011 - Irving - again we'd have to go with hypothetical dray
2012 - Davis
2013 - Anthony Bennett - Dray clearly lol
2014 - Wiggins - easy dray
2015 - KAT

So we have 16 drafts with enough time to make a decent to full judgement on careers.

we have 8 absolute no question this hypothetical 5 year's of peak Dray would be better than the actual first pick. Then we have 2-3 that we could debate.

All of those drafts has a player better than Dray. KD in the Oden draft is an example.

[TDotJon]

The 76ers will be fine after they trade one of their role players for a point guard. Power forwards should never be asked to play point guard. The Bucks also tried to have Giannis play point guard and it did not work, but when they traded for Eric Bledsoe they became a much better team. The 76ers should keep Horford because both Simmons and Embiid are injury prone and Horford can play power forward and center. Even with with Simmons and Embiid being healthy, Horford is a good fit because he can play backup for power forward and center which makes for good rotations and gives rest to Simmons and Embiid which will help to prevent them from being injured because of too many minutes.

more like pf's that can't shoot shouldn't be asked to play PG..... seems to be working with LBJ in LA

[dhsilv2]

No version of Draymond is worth a number 1 pick, there isn't even a draft in the last 15 yrs you can say he should have been 1. Nevermind the circumstance of being drafted by the perfect team to maximize his talent and hide his weaknesses.

Another game for Simmons against a good opponent and another game where he hurts his team because of his refusal to shoot. He had 0 pts and 1 assist in the 4th quarter last night and passed the ball out rather than drive on a 6'3 guard with an open lane. The Heat zone was so effective because a "PG" was camped out on the low block whenever he didn't have the ball, he's just not good.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using RealGM mobile app

Drafts we can discuss.

remember we are discussing a peak level dray for 5+ seasons, not actually dray.

2000 - Kenyon Martin. Dray is better
2001 - Kwame Brown. Dray is better
2002 - Ming Ming
2003 - lebron
2004 - Howard
2005 - Bogut - dray is better
2006 - Bargnani - Dray is better
2007 - Oden - Dray is better
2008 - Derrick Rose - sadly due to injuries Dray is better
2009 - Griffin - close enough to debate but lets go Griffin
2010 - Wall - Gotta go dray here
2011 - Irving - again we'd have to go with hypothetical dray
2012 - Davis
2013 - Anthony Bennett - Dray clearly lol
2014 - Wiggins - easy dray
2015 - KAT

So we have 16 drafts with enough time to make a decent to full judgement on careers.

we have 8 absolute no question this hypothetical 5 year's of peak Dray would be better than the actual first pick. Then we have 2-3 that we could debate.

All of those drafts has a player better than Dray. KD in the Oden draft is an example.

I mean if you're going to grossly miss the reality that drafting is a crap shoot and that the idea that a Gm would be fired for drafting super dray when he'd be better than at least 50% of the first picks...

[HotelVitale]

Sixers defense is elite.Sixers offense is 3rd in assists(26.7), 3rd in fg %(47.7) and 5th in 3 pt %(37.0).Yes the team that everyone says has no shooters and cant space the floor is 5th in 3pt %.

27th in 3 point attempts. They pretty clearly have spacing issues, particularly with the starting lineup. The lack of perimeter shooting and playmaking aren't made up issues. It'll be interesting to see if they make a move to address it or just bet on their size and defense being able to overcome it during the playoffs.

The lack of perimeter shooting isn’t really a thing, and there’s zero correlation (let alone causality) between 3pt shots per game and being good. There are more good teams in the bottom half of that ranking than in the top half, and 4 of the bottom 8 are very good teams.

Sixers don’t have a star on offense and don’t even have a reliable go-to set or move. That’s a problem that defines the team late in games now, we’re going to have to wait until the po to see if talent, size, and the committee approach is enough.

[youngcrev]

Sixers defense is elite.Sixers offense is 3rd in assists(26.7), 3rd in fg %(47.7) and 5th in 3 pt %(37.0).Yes the team that everyone says has no shooters and cant space the floor is 5th in 3pt %.

27th in 3 point attempts. They pretty clearly have spacing issues, particularly with the starting lineup. The lack of perimeter shooting and playmaking aren't made up issues. It'll be interesting to see if they make a move to address it or just bet on their size and defense being able to overcome it during the playoffs.

The lack of perimeter shooting isn’t really a thing, and there’s zero correlation (let alone causality) between 3pt shots per game and being good. There are more good teams in the bottom half of that ranking than in the top half, and 4 of the bottom 8 are very good teams.

Sixers don’t have a star on offense and don’t even have a reliable go-to set or move. That’s a problem that defines the team late in games now, we’re going to have to wait until the po to see if talent, size, and the committee approach is enough.

How isn't the lack of perimeter shooting a thing? Particularly on a team with the best post scorer in basketball? It's not just an amount of 3s thing either, they've got a bunch of guys in the starting lineup that naturally want to go to the same spots offensively. They've got an offensive rating of 102.4 with Embiid/Simmons/Horford on the floor. That ranks DEAD LAST in the league.