Around the NBA, 2020/21 Edition

[thelead]

I hated Sexton as a prospect in college and still do today. He is not a starting guard. Mo still has a good shot at becoming the unicorn that most teams want for their starting center (3’s, blocks and rebounds).

[tiderulz]

I hated Sexton as a prospect in college and still do today. He is not a starting guard. Mo still has a good shot at becoming the unicorn that most teams want for their starting center (3’s, blocks and rebounds).

pretty strong words for a kid that is only 20. he finished last year real strong. not having the greatest year this year, but then that team is a dumpster fire.

[Knightro]

I could not possibly disagree more with this running narrative that Vuc's new deal hurts Bamba here.

Bamba can be retained on a rookie deal until Vuc's final year and there is no law which states minutes have to be passed out based on the size of contracts. By the end of Vuc's deal the minutes between the two could very well be flipped.

How could it not?

Vucevic is the vastly superior player and he's signed for three more years after this one. Bamba's signed for two more after this year and then goes into RFA.

Now I do want to clarify in case there was confusion, I do not under any circumstances believe Vucevic would play over Bamba only because of the size of their respective contracts. I simply believe Vucevic will continue to play over Bamba because he's significantly better in every element of professional basketball.

I'm rooting for Mo, I really am. But I would genuinely be flabbergasted if Bamba ever gets to be as good as Vucevic is right now and even if it does happen, I certainly don't expect it before Vucevic's current contract is up.

My point is... because of Vucevic's presence, I just don't see Mo as anything more than a backup C for the next 2-3 seasons and backup centers that can only play center are pretty much like backup point guards who can only play point guard to me. They're entirely fungible.

Bamba and Vucevic can't share the floor. And Bamba is much worse than Vucevic right now. Add those together and Bamba's a 15-17 MPG player - presumably for the next few years, right?

Are we playing the REALLY long game here? Where Bamba takes over as the starting center in 2023-2024?

All that said... I actually wouldn't mind at all shopping Vucevic for a scoring guard or wing and throwing Bamba into the deep end as the starting center, but I just don't think that's something the Magic are even going to consider doing.

[MagicFan101]

I could not possibly disagree more with this running narrative that Vuc's new deal hurts Bamba here.

Bamba can be retained on a rookie deal until Vuc's final year and there is no law which states minutes have to be passed out based on the size of contracts. By the end of Vuc's deal the minutes between the two could very well be flipped.

How could it not?

Vucevic is the vastly superior player and he's signed for three more years after this one. Bamba's signed for two more after this year and then goes into RFA.

Now I do want to clarify in case there was confusion, I do not under any circumstances believe Vucevic would play over Bamba only because of the size of their respective contracts. I simply believe Vucevic will continue to play over Bamba because he's significantly better in every element of professional basketball.

I'm rooting for Mo, I really am. But I would genuinely be flabbergasted if Bamba ever gets to be as good as Vucevic is right now and even if it does happen, I certainly don't expect it before Vucevic's current contract is up.

My point is... because of Vucevic's presence, I just don't see Mo as anything more than a backup C for the next 2-3 seasons and backup centers that can only play center are pretty much like backup point guards who can only play point guard to me. They're entirely fungible.

Bamba and Vucevic can't share the floor. And Bamba is much worse than Vucevic right now. Add those together and Bamba's a 15-17 MPG player - presumably for the next few years, right?

Are we playing the REALLY long game here? Where Bamba takes over as the starting center in 2023-2024?

All that said... I actually wouldn't mind at all shopping Vucevic for a scoring guard or wing and throwing Bamba into the deep end as the starting center, but I just don't think that's something the Magic are even going to consider doing.

What is wrong with Bamba being a backup center for the next 2-3 years?

If there were any sense whatsoever in your comment then why bother practicing or having coaches? Playing time is not the only source of growth and develop. Thinking otherwise is ... well, pathetically stupid. So hopefully that is not what you're trying to say.

Now, if your comment is instead meant to say that all backup PG and C are of equal value then I simply ask how hard you cried when Jerian Grant was let go.

At the end of Vuc's deal, Bamba will still be just 24 years old. While anyone paying attention is happy with recent progress, he still has a long way to go. Being a backup to Vuc and putting in the work off the court is probably a good thing for him.

Trading Vuc for an upgrade elsewhere is not something I would complain about but it is also not the only option.

[thelead]

I hated Sexton as a prospect in college and still do today. He is not a starting guard. Mo still has a good shot at becoming the unicorn that most teams want for their starting center (3’s, blocks and rebounds).

pretty strong words for a kid that is only 20. he finished last year real strong. not having the greatest year this year, but then that team is a dumpster fire.

True but I’ve viewed him as the ‘PG’ version of AG... and the biggest reason why AG is a solid starter where Sexton won’t be is the fact that AG isn’t 6’1” and 190 pounds. Imagine how much you would hate AG if he was 6’1” and 190 pounds. Sexton will be a great spark plug player if he can embrace it.

[Knightro]

What is wrong with Bamba being a backup center for the next 2-3 years?

If there were any sense whatsoever in your comment then why bother practicing or having coaches? Playing time is not the only source of growth and develop. Thinking otherwise is ... well, pathetically stupid. So hopefully that is not what you're trying to say.

Now, if your comment is instead meant to say that all backup PG and C are of equal value then I simply ask how hard you cried when Jerian Grant was let go.

At the end of Vuc's deal, Bamba will still be just 24 years old. While anyone paying attention is happy with recent progress, he still has a long way to go. Being a backup to Vuc and putting in the work off the court is probably a good thing for him.

Trading Vuc for an upgrade elsewhere is not something I would complain about but it is also not the only option.

There's nothing *wrong* with Bamba being a backup for the next 3 years necessarily.

But that would mean that Mo will have been a backup his entire rookie contract and the first year of his second contract or his qualifying offer year providing a low amount of on-court value since he'll only be playing 15 or so MPG that entire time unless he experiences MASSIVE improvement to the point he's better than Vucevic.

This is less of a knock on Bamba the player and more of an argument in favor of maximizing the capabilities of this roster via roster construction.

Think about it this way. If the choices are...

1. Play Bamba 15 MPG as the backup C for the next three years.

or

2. Trade Bamba for a similarly young guard or wing that can play 25 to 30 minutes a night moving forward with Birch sliding into that 15 MPG role he was so effective in last year.

There's nothing *wrong* with Option 1, but Option 2 feels like it could/would provide more value for the organization both in the short-term and the long-term. That is subject to who the Magic could get for Bamba of course. For the sake of this discussion, the Magic would be getting a guard or wing still on their rookie deal.

I'm not sure if Sexton is the guy to target necessarily, but the concept of moving Bamba for a guard/wing on their rookie deal just makes so much sense to me. They committed to Vucevic with a long contract and he's almost certainly going to be better than Mo throughout most/all of that contract.

And yes, there's exceptions to every rule like a Jerian Grant, but for the most part there's not a particularly massive gap between most backup PGs and most backup Cs throughout the league. Both positions are pretty fungible when they aren't able to share the court with the starting PG/starting C because they're always going to be limited in how many minutes they're able to play compared to backup SG/SF/PF.

[pepe1991]

Bamba does not have skills, experience, body, weight or talent to be NBA starter any time soon.
If Vuc isn't on Magic, for time being, Mo would still be 20 mpg player at most.

[basketballRob]

I could not possibly disagree more with this running narrative that Vuc's new deal hurts Bamba here.

Bamba can be retained on a rookie deal until Vuc's final year and there is no law which states minutes have to be passed out based on the size of contracts. By the end of Vuc's deal the minutes between the two could very well be flipped.

How could it not?

Vucevic is the vastly superior player and he's signed for three more years after this one. Bamba's signed for two more after this year and then goes into RFA.

Now I do want to clarify in case there was confusion, I do not under any circumstances believe Vucevic would play over Bamba only because of the size of their respective contracts. I simply believe Vucevic will continue to play over Bamba because he's significantly better in every element of professional basketball.

I'm rooting for Mo, I really am. But I would genuinely be flabbergasted if Bamba ever gets to be as good as Vucevic is right now and even if it does happen, I certainly don't expect it before Vucevic's current contract is up.

My point is... because of Vucevic's presence, I just don't see Mo as anything more than a backup C for the next 2-3 seasons and backup centers that can only play center are pretty much like backup point guards who can only play point guard to me. They're entirely fungible.

Bamba and Vucevic can't share the floor. And Bamba is much worse than Vucevic right now. Add those together and Bamba's a 15-17 MPG player - presumably for the next few years, right?

Are we playing the REALLY long game here? Where Bamba takes over as the starting center in 2023-2024?

All that said... I actually wouldn't mind at all shopping Vucevic for a scoring guard or wing and throwing Bamba into the deep end as the starting center, but I just don't think that's something the Magic are even going to consider doing.

Bamba has a chance to be a far superior defender than Vuc has ever been and that's what you want from the center spot.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[fendilim]

I could not possibly disagree more with this running narrative that Vuc's new deal hurts Bamba here.

Bamba can be retained on a rookie deal until Vuc's final year and there is no law which states minutes have to be passed out based on the size of contracts. By the end of Vuc's deal the minutes between the two could very well be flipped.

How could it not?

Vucevic is the vastly superior player and he's signed for three more years after this one. Bamba's signed for two more after this year and then goes into RFA.

Now I do want to clarify in case there was confusion, I do not under any circumstances believe Vucevic would play over Bamba only because of the size of their respective contracts. I simply believe Vucevic will continue to play over Bamba because he's significantly better in every element of professional basketball.

I'm rooting for Mo, I really am. But I would genuinely be flabbergasted if Bamba ever gets to be as good as Vucevic is right now and even if it does happen, I certainly don't expect it before Vucevic's current contract is up.

My point is... because of Vucevic's presence, I just don't see Mo as anything more than a backup C for the next 2-3 seasons and backup centers that can only play center are pretty much like backup point guards who can only play point guard to me. They're entirely fungible.

Bamba and Vucevic can't share the floor. And Bamba is much worse than Vucevic right now. Add those together and Bamba's a 15-17 MPG player - presumably for the next few years, right?

Are we playing the REALLY long game here? Where Bamba takes over as the starting center in 2023-2024?

All that said... I actually wouldn't mind at all shopping Vucevic for a scoring guard or wing and throwing Bamba into the deep end as the starting center, but I just don't think that's something the Magic are even going to consider doing.

Bamba has a chance to be a far superior defender than Vuc has ever been and that's what you want from the center spot.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, but from the looks of it, Bamba seems to be more of a Gobert type of player who opponents just exploit during the playoffs.

Dont get me wrong, someone like Gobert would be amazing, DPOY and all that ****, but we've seen numerous times his defense being exploited on the perimeter.

[basketballRob]

How could it not?

Vucevic is the vastly superior player and he's signed for three more years after this one. Bamba's signed for two more after this year and then goes into RFA.

Now I do want to clarify in case there was confusion, I do not under any circumstances believe Vucevic would play over Bamba only because of the size of their respective contracts. I simply believe Vucevic will continue to play over Bamba because he's significantly better in every element of professional basketball.

I'm rooting for Mo, I really am. But I would genuinely be flabbergasted if Bamba ever gets to be as good as Vucevic is right now and even if it does happen, I certainly don't expect it before Vucevic's current contract is up.

My point is... because of Vucevic's presence, I just don't see Mo as anything more than a backup C for the next 2-3 seasons and backup centers that can only play center are pretty much like backup point guards who can only play point guard to me. They're entirely fungible.

Bamba and Vucevic can't share the floor. And Bamba is much worse than Vucevic right now. Add those together and Bamba's a 15-17 MPG player - presumably for the next few years, right?

Are we playing the REALLY long game here? Where Bamba takes over as the starting center in 2023-2024?

All that said... I actually wouldn't mind at all shopping Vucevic for a scoring guard or wing and throwing Bamba into the deep end as the starting center, but I just don't think that's something the Magic are even going to consider doing.

Bamba has a chance to be a far superior defender than Vuc has ever been and that's what you want from the center spot.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, but from the looks of it, Bamba seems to be more of a Gobert type of player who opponents just exploit during the playoffs.

Dont get me wrong, someone like Gobert would be amazing, DPOY and all that ****, but we've seen numerous times his defense being exploited on the perimeter.

The reason i give Bamba an edge over Vuc on defense is because he's quicker and more capable to guard the perimeter. Vuc covers his deficiencies by staying in paint on defense.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[tiderulz]

I hated Sexton as a prospect in college and still do today. He is not a starting guard. Mo still has a good shot at becoming the unicorn that most teams want for their starting center (3’s, blocks and rebounds).

pretty strong words for a kid that is only 20. he finished last year real strong. not having the greatest year this year, but then that team is a dumpster fire.

True but I’ve viewed him as the ‘PG’ version of AG... and the biggest reason why AG is a solid starter where Sexton won’t be is the fact that AG isn’t 6’1” and 190 pounds. Imagine how much you would hate AG if he was 6’1” and 190 pounds. Sexton will be a great spark plug player if he can embrace it.

Sexton shot 40% from 3 for the year last year. do you honestly ever think AG will ever shoot 40% from 3 for the year? he is already light years ahead of AG as a shooter.

[j-ragg]

pretty strong words for a kid that is only 20. he finished last year real strong. not having the greatest year this year, but then that team is a dumpster fire.

True but I’ve viewed him as the ‘PG’ version of AG... and the biggest reason why AG is a solid starter where Sexton won’t be is the fact that AG isn’t 6’1” and 190 pounds. Imagine how much you would hate AG if he was 6’1” and 190 pounds. Sexton will be a great spark plug player if he can embrace it.

Sexton shot 40% from 3 for the year last year. do you honestly ever think AG will ever shoot 40% from 3 for the year? he is already light years ahead of AG as a shooter.

Sexton doesn't really do anything well imo. He shot it well last year but that's looking like an outlier. Not a good passer, defender, scorer, doesn't turn it over a ton though. I think he made people believe he was a good defender cus he scowled on defense during his 1st summer league. I think his ideal role in the future will be for him to turn into a Lou Will kinda player, but I'm not sure the likeliness of it happening.

edit: I didn't like him before the draft so no doubt this could be my subconscious just trying to be right. But I just watch him and don't see it. I liked Garland a lot more but he looks like **** too. Cleveland's roster management not doing its young guys any favors (where have I heard this song before).

[thelead]

pretty strong words for a kid that is only 20. he finished last year real strong. not having the greatest year this year, but then that team is a dumpster fire.

True but I’ve viewed him as the ‘PG’ version of AG... and the biggest reason why AG is a solid starter where Sexton won’t be is the fact that AG isn’t 6’1” and 190 pounds. Imagine how much you would hate AG if he was 6’1” and 190 pounds. Sexton will be a great spark plug player if he can embrace it.

Sexton shot 40% from 3 for the year last year. do you honestly ever think AG will ever shoot 40% from 3 for the year? he is already light years ahead of AG as a shooter.

Lets see if he can sustain that level of shooting. I don’t think he can as exhibited by his sub 30% effort thus far. He’ll probably land somewhere in the middle.

[tiderulz]

True but I’ve viewed him as the ‘PG’ version of AG... and the biggest reason why AG is a solid starter where Sexton won’t be is the fact that AG isn’t 6’1” and 190 pounds. Imagine how much you would hate AG if he was 6’1” and 190 pounds. Sexton will be a great spark plug player if he can embrace it.

Sexton shot 40% from 3 for the year last year. do you honestly ever think AG will ever shoot 40% from 3 for the year? he is already light years ahead of AG as a shooter.

Sexton doesn't really do anything well imo. He shot it well last year but that's looking like an outlier. Not a good passer, defender, scorer, doesn't turn it over a ton though. I think he made people believe he was a good defender cus he scowled on defense during his 1st summer league. I think his ideal role in the future will be for him to turn into a Lou Will kinda player, but I'm not sure the likeliness of it happening.

edit: I didn't like him before the draft so no doubt this could be my subconscious just trying to be right. But I just watch him and don't see it. I liked Garland a lot more but he looks like **** too. Cleveland's roster management not doing its young guys any favors (where have I heard this song before).

considering he is all of 26 games into his NBA career, you cant call anything an "outlier". He made people think he was a good defender because he was a good defender in college. Being a Bama fan, i watched a lot of his games, he is a good defender, more than just a "scowl". you dont think he deserved to be a lottery pick i could see that. I still dont think they know what his position will be, he isnt a true PG. but he is a good player.

[j-ragg]

Sexton shot 40% from 3 for the year last year. do you honestly ever think AG will ever shoot 40% from 3 for the year? he is already light years ahead of AG as a shooter.

Sexton doesn't really do anything well imo. He shot it well last year but that's looking like an outlier. Not a good passer, defender, scorer, doesn't turn it over a ton though. I think he made people believe he was a good defender cus he scowled on defense during his 1st summer league. I think his ideal role in the future will be for him to turn into a Lou Will kinda player, but I'm not sure the likeliness of it happening.

edit: I didn't like him before the draft so no doubt this could be my subconscious just trying to be right. But I just watch him and don't see it. I liked Garland a lot more but he looks like **** too. Cleveland's roster management not doing its young guys any favors (where have I heard this song before).

considering he is all of 26 games into his NBA career, you cant call anything an "outlier". He made people think he was a good defender because he was a good defender in college. Being a Bama fan, i watched a lot of his games, he is a good defender, more than just a "scowl". you dont think he deserved to be a lottery pick i could see that. I still dont think they know what his position will be, he isnt a true PG. but he is a good player.

He's 108 games into his career. A lot of Cavs fans have jumped ship on him. Maybe they ruined him after Bama but his defensive stats look much worse than his offensive stats, which aren't good either. I get you're a Bama fan so obviously watched him more but probably more likely to be biased in his favor too.

[Xatticus]

Sexton shot 40% from 3 for the year last year. do you honestly ever think AG will ever shoot 40% from 3 for the year? he is already light years ahead of AG as a shooter.

Sexton doesn't really do anything well imo. He shot it well last year but that's looking like an outlier. Not a good passer, defender, scorer, doesn't turn it over a ton though. I think he made people believe he was a good defender cus he scowled on defense during his 1st summer league. I think his ideal role in the future will be for him to turn into a Lou Will kinda player, but I'm not sure the likeliness of it happening.

edit: I didn't like him before the draft so no doubt this could be my subconscious just trying to be right. But I just watch him and don't see it. I liked Garland a lot more but he looks like **** too. Cleveland's roster management not doing its young guys any favors (where have I heard this song before).

considering he is all of 26 games into his NBA career, you cant call anything an "outlier". He made people think he was a good defender because he was a good defender in college. Being a Bama fan, i watched a lot of his games, he is a good defender, more than just a "scowl". you dont think he deserved to be a lottery pick i could see that. I still dont think they know what his position will be, he isnt a true PG. but he is a good player.

Cleveland has gotten destroyed when Sexton has been on the floor. They are -852 while he is on the floor in his 108 games. Sure... Cleveland has been a terrible team over the last couple years, but they have been better when he isn't on the floor. He is a significant factor in why they are terrible.

I don't really have any interest in crapping on Sexton. That's Cleveland's problem. We have our own problems, but Sexton is precisely the sort of player that I'd hope to avoid. I want ball movers that can defend. Those are two gaping flaws in his game. I'd rather stick with Bamba.

[ezzzp]

The reason i give Bamba an edge over Vuc on defense is because he's quicker and more capable to guard the perimeter. Vuc covers his deficiencies by staying in paint on defense.

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Yea but bbIQ and defensive rebounding matter more for good team defense, especially in the playoffs. Vucevic might not be leaper or have good lateral speed but he has a big wide body with a good wingspan (7-4.5) and has very good defensive IQ plus is a very good rebounder. He's not a good rim protector, but he's a very good paint defender...that's not as flashy and won't produce highlights, but its effective.

Bamba's bbIQ on the defensive end is still not great. His instincts aren't very good either, some would argue they're bad. He's definitely improving and playing much better. I love his peak potential, but its not set in stone. The best thing to ensure that he reaches that goal is that he plays in a quality competitive context and is gradually developed behind a highIQ big who he has to compete with every day for at least a couple more seasons. If he takes a big developmental leap sooner than that, great...if not, Vucevic is there to keep the pressure off him until he is ready.

[drsd]

Nice to see Bamba play well in this last road game.

[Ducklett]

Can someone do a side-by-side of Birch and Bamba's stats while Vuc was gone? I would actually be curious to see who played better during Vuc's absence.

[Knightro]

Can someone do a side-by-side of Birch and Bamba's stats while Vuc was gone? I would actually be curious to see who played better during Vuc's absence.

Birch
28.1 MPG, 4.8 PTS, 7.0 REB, 1.5 AST, 1.0 TOV, 0.8 STL, 1.2 BLK, 3.2 PF
48.9% FG (22-45), 0.0% 3PT (0-0), 60% FT (9-15)
ORTG 101.9, DRTG 109.5, -7.6 NET
48.9 eFG%, 51.4 TS%, 8.8 USG%

Bamba
17.9 MPG, 7.9 PTS, 6.2 REB, 0.5 AST, 1.3 TOV, 0.3 STL, 1.6 BLK, 2.0 PF
50.0% FG (34-68), 48.0% 3PT (12-25), 87.5% FT (7-8)
ORTG 106.9, DRTG 103.5, +3.3 NET
58.8 eFG%, 60.8 TS%, 18.6 USG%

The short answer? Bamba was significantly better than Birch.

The long answer is a little more nuanced. It must be noted that Bamba's role didn't really change all that much once Vucevic went down. He was the backup C playing against backups before Vucevic got hurt playing 13-14 minutes a night and he remained the backup C once Vucevic got hurt. Only real difference was a small uptick to 17-18 minutes a night.

Plus Bamba was on a small minutes restriction and being held out of back-to-backs the first month of the season which has since been lifted. So it's possible this improvement was coming with or without Vucevic going down.

Birch went from completely out of the rotation to being forced into 28 minutes a night. He tried hard, but 28 MPG is simply more than Khem's skill set is capable of handling.

You look back to last year when Birch was really effective as Vucevic's backup and he was sitting in that 14-17 MPG sweet spot every night. He never cracked 20 minutes in a single game during last year's stretch run.

Birch is a perfectly capable backup NBA center. A guy who should be playing limited minutes where his energy and hustle can really provide the biggest impact. The more he plays, the less effective he is.