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Around the NBA, 2020/21 Edition

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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#561 » by ezzzp » Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:26 pm

Knightro wrote:
Ducklett wrote:Can someone do a side-by-side of Birch and Bamba's stats while Vuc was gone? I would actually be curious to see who played better during Vuc's absence.


Birch
28.1 MPG, 4.8 PTS, 7.0 REB, 1.5 AST, 1.0 TOV, 0.8 STL, 1.2 BLK, 3.2 PF
48.9% FG (22-45), 0.0% 3PT (0-0), 60% FT (9-15)
ORTG 101.9, DRTG 109.5, -7.6 NET
48.9 eFG%, 51.4 TS%, 8.8 USG%

Bamba
17.9 MPG, 7.9 PTS, 6.2 REB, 0.5 AST, 1.3 TOV, 0.3 STL, 1.6 BLK, 2.0 PF
50.0% FG (34-68), 48.0% 3PT (12-25), 87.5% FT (7-8)
ORTG 106.9, DRTG 103.5, +3.3 NET
58.8 eFG%, 60.8 TS%, 18.6 USG%

The short answer? Bamba was significantly better than Birch.

The long answer is a little more nuanced. It must be noted that Bamba's role didn't really change all that much once Vucevic went down. He was the backup C playing against backups before Vucevic got hurt playing 13-14 minutes a night and he remained the backup C once Vucevic got hurt. Only real difference was a small uptick to 17-18 minutes a night.

Plus Bamba was on a small minutes restriction and being held out of back-to-backs the first month of the season which has since been lifted. So it's possible this improvement was coming with or without Vucevic going down.

Birch went from completely out of the rotation to being forced into 28 minutes a night. He tried hard, but 28 MPG is simply more than Khem's skill set is capable of handling.

You look back to last year when Birch was really effective as Vucevic's backup and he was sitting in that 14-17 MPG sweet spot every night. He never cracked 20 minutes in a single game during last year's stretch run.

Birch is a perfectly capable backup NBA center. A guy who should be playing limited minutes where his energy and hustle can really provide the biggest impact. The more he plays, the less effective he is.


The eye test also looked that way, Bamba has played better.

To give full context of comparison, it should be noted that Birch was playing vs starting unit caliber lineups. Which of course means he was facing much harder competition than Bamba. It can be argued that he was also playing alongside starters, so he was on the floor with better players...but in this case, he was replacing the most crucial starter + two other starters (Gordon and Fultz) missed games as well.
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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#562 » by Ducklett » Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:06 pm

ezzzp wrote:
Knightro wrote:
Ducklett wrote:Can someone do a side-by-side of Birch and Bamba's stats while Vuc was gone? I would actually be curious to see who played better during Vuc's absence.


Birch
28.1 MPG, 4.8 PTS, 7.0 REB, 1.5 AST, 1.0 TOV, 0.8 STL, 1.2 BLK, 3.2 PF
48.9% FG (22-45), 0.0% 3PT (0-0), 60% FT (9-15)
ORTG 101.9, DRTG 109.5, -7.6 NET
48.9 eFG%, 51.4 TS%, 8.8 USG%

Bamba
17.9 MPG, 7.9 PTS, 6.2 REB, 0.5 AST, 1.3 TOV, 0.3 STL, 1.6 BLK, 2.0 PF
50.0% FG (34-68), 48.0% 3PT (12-25), 87.5% FT (7-8)
ORTG 106.9, DRTG 103.5, +3.3 NET
58.8 eFG%, 60.8 TS%, 18.6 USG%

The short answer? Bamba was significantly better than Birch.

The long answer is a little more nuanced. It must be noted that Bamba's role didn't really change all that much once Vucevic went down. He was the backup C playing against backups before Vucevic got hurt playing 13-14 minutes a night and he remained the backup C once Vucevic got hurt. Only real difference was a small uptick to 17-18 minutes a night.

Plus Bamba was on a small minutes restriction and being held out of back-to-backs the first month of the season which has since been lifted. So it's possible this improvement was coming with or without Vucevic going down.

Birch went from completely out of the rotation to being forced into 28 minutes a night. He tried hard, but 28 MPG is simply more than Khem's skill set is capable of handling.

You look back to last year when Birch was really effective as Vucevic's backup and he was sitting in that 14-17 MPG sweet spot every night. He never cracked 20 minutes in a single game during last year's stretch run.

Birch is a perfectly capable backup NBA center. A guy who should be playing limited minutes where his energy and hustle can really provide the biggest impact. The more he plays, the less effective he is.


The eye test also looked that way, Bamba has played better.

To give full context of comparison, it should be noted that Birch was playing vs starting unit caliber lineups. Which of course means he was facing much harder competition than Bamba. It can be argued that he was also playing alongside starters, so he was on the floor with better players...but in this case, he was replacing the most crucial starter + two other starters (Gordon and Fultz) missed games as well.


Well, seeing as the narrative around here for months now is that Bamba shouldn't even be in the NBA, I would say that any "good" stats is totally unexpected.
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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#563 » by ezzzp » Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:22 pm

Ducklett wrote:
Well, seeing as the narrative around here for months now is that Bamba shouldn't even be in the NBA, I would say that any "good" stats is totally unexpected.


That's not my narrative, I've been pretty adamant that the Magic continue to give Bamba the primary back up role to keep his development in a consistent structure regardless of how effective or ineffective he was playing. My narrative from day one with Bamba has been to develop him patiently at a steady gradual pace within a competitive context.
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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#564 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:19 am

If Bamba continues to develop, he will make for a quality backup for years to come.
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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#565 » by Optimus_Steel » Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:39 am

Det with a bad loss to Wash at home. Helps us in the playoff race.
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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#566 » by drsd » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:39 am

Fascinating stats YouTube clip:


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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#567 » by pepe1991 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:25 pm

drsd wrote:Fascinating stats YouTube clip:




Hoooooly crap that Harden 31 min, 60 points 88% TS game :o

and just goes to show it how easy it is to average 18 points a game
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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#568 » by dsg2021 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:21 pm

That 1 in 30, 3.33% chance of having a James Harden or Luka Doncic sure doesn't come the Magic's way at all. I guess it was just that 1994 moment for us. I'm happy to get a sense of the city's fan numbers picking up, but I think the sales and the real, long-time fans are starting to drop, with season ticket plans and ticket sales dropping I think.
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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#569 » by UCFJayBird » Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:12 pm

drsd wrote:Fascinating stats YouTube clip:




Wow. That's some great stuff. Really puts the performances we're seeing into perspective.

Just last night I was shaking my head at how easy it is to score 120 these days and how I used to think scoring 100 was a good night and a likely win. Now 100 is probably a loss.
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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#570 » by drsd » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:55 am

The Knicks win! The Knicks win! The Knicks win!

Seriously: the match-up of two 6-21 teams means that New York is now (currently) not the worst team in the East.

..
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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#571 » by zaymon » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:06 am

drsd wrote:The Knicks win! The Knicks win! The Knicks win!

Seriously: the match-up of two 6-21 teams means that New York is now (currently) not the worst team in the East.

..

One more year and Young will demand a trade to play with his best buddies, Vucevic and Fournier ;)
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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#572 » by pepe1991 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:38 am

drsd wrote:The Knicks win! The Knicks win! The Knicks win!

Seriously: the match-up of two 6-21 teams means that New York is now (currently) not the worst team in the East.

..


Warriors 5-23
Pelicans 6-22
Hawks 6-22
Cavs 6-21
Knicks 7-21
Wizards 8-17
Bulls 10-19
Memphis 10-17
Spurs 10-16
Minny 10-15

So many teams are so medicore to terrible that it's just crazy :crazy:

17 teams have negative record
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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#573 » by sChOlaRlY_Magi » Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:04 pm

It's sort of crazy that Peyton and DSJ are riding the bench for a Knicks team. I would easily take Elfrid back over DJ. I haven't followed DSJ, but remember so many clamoring for him in the draft.
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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#574 » by basketballRob » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:35 pm

sChOlaRlY_Magi wrote:It's sort of crazy that Peyton and DSJ are riding the bench for a Knicks team. I would easily take Elfrid back over DJ. I haven't followed DSJ, but remember so many clamoring for him in the draft.
Yes some are really high on DSJ, pepe wanted to trade Isaac for him.

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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#575 » by pepe1991 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:43 am

basketballRob wrote:
sChOlaRlY_Magi wrote:It's sort of crazy that Peyton and DSJ are riding the bench for a Knicks team. I would easily take Elfrid back over DJ. I haven't followed DSJ, but remember so many clamoring for him in the draft.
Yes some are really high on DSJ, pepe wanted to trade Isaac for him.

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It's very important that you brought that up, really. It's such an integral part of his game that random fan on internet said something about him.
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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#576 » by basketballRob » Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:16 am

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
sChOlaRlY_Magi wrote:It's sort of crazy that Peyton and DSJ are riding the bench for a Knicks team. I would easily take Elfrid back over DJ. I haven't followed DSJ, but remember so many clamoring for him in the draft.
Yes some are really high on DSJ, pepe wanted to trade Isaac for him.

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It's very important that you brought that up, really. It's such an integral part of his game that random fan on internet said something about him.
I'm not always right either about young players but for some reason i never wanted DSJ.

Hopefully Bamba and Fultz prove you wrong too.

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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#577 » by pepe1991 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:25 am

basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Yes some are really high on DSJ, pepe wanted to trade Isaac for him.

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It's very important that you brought that up, really. It's such an integral part of his game that random fan on internet said something about him.
I'm not always right either about young players but for some reason i never wanted DSJ.

Hopefully Bamba and Fultz prove you wrong too.

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There are lot of players i thought will be better than they are , and lot of players i thought will suck, yet they play well.
Even scouts mess it up more often than not.
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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#578 » by sChOlaRlY_Magi » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:30 pm

I brought it up to see what people thought about the viability, not to point out who said what in the draft. Pleasantly surprised by the admission of getting things wrong by Pepe. We should all own our mistakes. I REALLY liked getting Isaac at the time, but DSJ had a couple of those games that had people rumbling about stardom, around the time Isaac was hurt. Had me 2nd guessing myself for a minute.

Then he got traded to the Knicks and disappeared. I think most of us here our thrilled to now having Isaac, and next year will probably be thrilled about Bamba. That said I will have to admit that within the last 2 years in the draft seeing dsj get snapped up by the Mavs, then them grabbing Doncic and in the same draft missing Young.... Man I had some serious PG fomo going on.

That said, and I know there are haters. I think Peyton could be the perfect backup PG, now that he is starting to get a semi respectable shot...

Same could be said of MCW, if he can keep making them in this year I guess though.
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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#579 » by pepe1991 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:26 pm

sChOlaRlY_Magi wrote:I brought it up to see what people thought about the viability, not to point out who said what in the draft. Pleasantly surprised by the admission of getting things wrong by Pepe. We should all own our mistakes. I REALLY liked getting Isaac at the time, but DSJ had a couple of those games that had people rumbling about stardom, around the time Isaac was hurt. Had me 2nd guessing myself for a minute.

Then he got traded to the Knicks and disappeared. I think most of us here our thrilled to now having Isaac, and next year will probably be thrilled about Bamba. That said I will have to admit that within the last 2 years in the draft seeing dsj get snapped up by the Mavs, then them grabbing Doncic and in the same draft missing Young.... Man I had some serious PG fomo going on.

That said, and I know there are haters. I think Peyton could be the perfect backup PG, now that he is starting to get a semi respectable shot...

Same could be said of MCW, if he can keep making them in this year I guess though.


To be fair to all Knicks players last 2,3 years. It's impossible to look good given conditions they have to play through.
Delusional expetations, over a top fans, bloodthirsty media and too much off court drama.
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Re: Around the NBA, 2019/20 Edition 

Post#580 » by sChOlaRlY_Magi » Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:50 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
sChOlaRlY_Magi wrote:I brought it up to see what people thought about the viability, not to point out who said what in the draft. Pleasantly surprised by the admission of getting things wrong by Pepe. We should all own our mistakes. I REALLY liked getting Isaac at the time, but DSJ had a couple of those games that had people rumbling about stardom, around the time Isaac was hurt. Had me 2nd guessing myself for a minute.

Then he got traded to the Knicks and disappeared. I think most of us here our thrilled to now having Isaac, and next year will probably be thrilled about Bamba. That said I will have to admit that within the last 2 years in the draft seeing dsj get snapped up by the Mavs, then them grabbing Doncic and in the same draft missing Young.... Man I had some serious PG fomo going on.

That said, and I know there are haters. I think Peyton could be the perfect backup PG, now that he is starting to get a semi respectable shot...

Same could be said of MCW, if he can keep making them in this year I guess though.


To be fair to all Knicks players last 2,3 years. It's impossible to look good given conditions they have to play through.
Delusional expetations, over a top fans, bloodthirsty media and too much off court drama.



Totally agree, which is why I think they have a fire sale at some point in the near future. Didn't they pick up a bunch of pfs when they missed out on Davis?

So they have EP and DSJ behind either one or 2 other guards in front of them iirc.

I looked at that box score where they scored 140 recently and remember seeing how heavy they were at the G and F spots.

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