Regular Season Game 27: Orlando Magic (12-14) at Utah Jazz (15-11) - 9pm ET

[JojoSlimbiid]

Something I've been meaning to ask you guys since I've picked you guys up as my second team. The Aaron Gordon creation/mid-range thing....is this new? Or is it a habit. Some of the most robotic attempts at shot creation I think I've ever seen.

You can blame Frank Vogel and Rob Hennigan for that nonsense.

Hennigan traded Oladipo and Sabonis for Serge Ibaka (ugh) in June which forced Gordon to have to play small forward for the 16-17 season.

Gordon spent that whole offseason relentlessly working on his ball handling and came back with the ability do fancy crossovers and fancy dribbles through his legs, but still no actual ability to use his dribbling to beat defenders.

Vogel tried to convince the media and fans (and did convince Gordon IMO) that he could be the next Paul George. A perimeter based scorer from the wing and Gordon has desperately wanted to be that player ever since.

Clifford beat it out of him pretty good last year as 66% of his shots were at the rim or from three, but bad habits have crept back in this year as his percentage of midrange shots (any shot not at the rim or from three for the sake of his argument) is way up compared to last year.

What we heard this offseason is that Gordon relentlessly worked on his post game and that Clifford was going to afford him opportunities to work in the post.

The problem is he's an AWFUL (21st percentile) post player. He usually pounds the ball and ends up taking a wild fadeaway. He's actually pretty bad at anything offensively that requires multiple dribbles.

Gordon 0 dribbles: 57.7 eFG%
Gordon 1 dribble: 40.9 eFG%
Gordon 2 dribbles: 48.0 eFG%
Gordon 3-6 dribbles: 30.2 eFG%
Gordon 7+ dribbles: 41.7 eFG%

Ok so there is some history here. Even with Kobe's reputation I doubt he would have had this much influence over a player in one off season. Good to know that there seems like a history of enabling the player to be more than he is. Those stats you posted tell pretty much the whole story. Guy is a finisher and not a creator.

[OrlChamps2030]

Denver is gonna destroy those team.

second night on the road on back to back is scheaduled L

Phil Jackson even when he coached 72 wins Bulls called that type of games "schedule loss"

Back to back against a good western conference team.. easy loss.. real question is do the Magoc cover the 9.5 spread

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

Beat the teams you’re supposed to beat
Lose to the teams you’re supposed to lose to
Squeak into the playoffs as the 8 seed
Lose in 5
Draft a raw tweener forward with your middling draft pick
Resign your vets
Repeat

Life as Magic fan.
We have a terrible ownership group that is content with this.

I don't think ownership is content with this. I mean they have been willing to spend money on this team and even go into the tax when we were contending. Well at least when Devos Sr. was around. Moreover, if they were content with the product they would not have made so many changes in leadership and coaching over the last several years. With exception of Alex Martin's "the marketing guy" it has been a revolving door.

I would be more inclined to agree with ownership being inept ("terrible") when managing the team. They have put people in positions above their pay grade and have made some really poor decisions over the last decade. Hiring a 30 year old (youngest in NBA history) as the teams GM comes to mind. I don't think they are content with the product, just inept.

It was different when Devos Sr was alive and running the team. There was just a different feel and vibe and trying to win championships was the goal.

Now I feel the goal is to get 2 home playoff games per season for that extra revenue. Maybe a few more if we get some lucky breaks.

I think I feel this way because I got spoiled being in high school during the height of the Shaq and Penny days- just knowing that your team wasn’t going to just squeeze into the playoffs but had a legit chance to win it all. And quite honestly I am not sure we are on that trajectory even in the next 5 years to say that.

[Popsicle1228]

Life as Magic fan.
We have a terrible ownership group that is content with this.

I don't think ownership is content with this. I mean they have been willing to spend money on this team and even go into the tax when we were contending. Well at least when Devos Sr. was around. Moreover, if they were content with the product they would not have made so many changes in leadership and coaching over the last several years. With exception of Alex Martin's "the marketing guy" it has been a revolving door.

I would be more inclined to agree with ownership being inept ("terrible") when managing the team. They have put people in positions above their pay grade and have made some really poor decisions over the last decade. Hiring a 30 year old (youngest in NBA history) as the teams GM comes to mind. I don't think they are content with the product, just inept.

It was different when Devos Sr was alive and running the team. There was just a different feel and vibe and trying to win championships was the goal.

Now I feel the goal is to get 2 home playoff games per season for that extra revenue. Maybe a few more if we get some lucky breaks.

I think I feel this way because I got spoiled being in high school during the height of the Shaq and Penny days- just knowing that your team wasn’t going to just squeeze into the playoffs but had a legit chance to win it all. And quite honestly I am not sure we are on that trajectory even in the next 5 years to say that.

I feel your pain here. I grew up during the Shaq and Penny days as well. Had/have a massive Penny Hardaway bball card collection (with hindsight, should have invested in Shaq rookie cards instead of Penny ), saved money to buy his authentic jersey, got an autographed bball, and had a poster of Penny on my wall passing the ball behind him while in the air in front of #45 Jordan. As a kid and at the time, I just sort of thought the Magic would always be contenders'. Now I sincerely wonder if the organization will win a championship in my life time. I suppose if the Magic ever do win a championship, the rough times we have stuck through will make it all the more special.

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

I don't think ownership is content with this. I mean they have been willing to spend money on this team and even go into the tax when we were contending. Well at least when Devos Sr. was around. Moreover, if they were content with the product they would not have made so many changes in leadership and coaching over the last several years. With exception of Alex Martin's "the marketing guy" it has been a revolving door.

I would be more inclined to agree with ownership being inept ("terrible") when managing the team. They have put people in positions above their pay grade and have made some really poor decisions over the last decade. Hiring a 30 year old (youngest in NBA history) as the teams GM comes to mind. I don't think they are content with the product, just inept.

It was different when Devos Sr was alive and running the team. There was just a different feel and vibe and trying to win championships was the goal.

Now I feel the goal is to get 2 home playoff games per season for that extra revenue. Maybe a few more if we get some lucky breaks.

I think I feel this way because I got spoiled being in high school during the height of the Shaq and Penny days- just knowing that your team wasn’t going to just squeeze into the playoffs but had a legit chance to win it all. And quite honestly I am not sure we are on that trajectory even in the next 5 years to say that.

I feel your pain here. I grew up during the Shaq and Penny days as well. Had/have a massive Penny Hardaway bball card collection (with hindsight, should have invested in Shaq rookie cards instead of Penny ), saved money to buy his authentic jersey, got an autographed bball, and had a poster of Penny on my wall passing the ball behind him while in the air in front of #45 Jordan. As a kid and at the time, I just sort of thought the Magic would always be contenders'. Now I sincerely wonder if the organization will win a championship in my life time. I suppose if the Magic ever do win a championship, the rough times we have stuck through will make it all the more special.

Exactly.
So you probably remember how the entire city was transformed during those magical playoff runs between 94-96.
And I think I got spoiled again with the Tmac days because our retooling only lasted for 1 season.

And you know what really pisses me off? I remember when the Magic were all over the news- the good and the bad. Now days does anyone even care for the Magic outside of a few hardcore fans? I remember as a kid going to school and seeing Magic flags from peoples cars, all my buddies only talked about the game that night and how we would win a championship. Now we argue about what exactly our core is, if we should get rid of Vuc or Bamba and if Fultz’s 3 point shot will ever be consistent. I want to have conversations about how we are dominating and are one of the clear cut 4-5 top teams on the league; not this treadmill team without a direction.

[pepe1991]

I feel like most of nba are now operating as companies to make profit, it just happends to be good for bussiness that you are competitive.
Also lot of rebuilts last couple of years led nowhere, and small market teams can't afford losing money for half of decade

[Blue_and_Whte]

Something I've been meaning to ask you guys since I've picked you guys up as my second team. The Aaron Gordon creation/mid-range thing....is this new? Or is it a habit. Some of the most robotic attempts at shot creation I think I've ever seen.

Within the past couple seasons. He's my favorite player but even I hate them so much. He must make them a lot in practice to make Cliff not have an aneursym on the sideline every time.

I fully believe in posting up AG or Isaac whoever has the mismatch; just wish Gordon used his size more. Drop step to a jump hook or something. He loves those awkward fades.

I feel like they're trying to force him to be a scorer, almost like they're showcasing him. I had an example but I cant remember the game and I dont want to type it all out. Basically he brought the ball up court with a small amount of time left but enough to run a play and the 4 other guys just got out of the way almost like saying "Alright guys lets let AG try and get his." Instead of running a play they just let him go and it predictably turned into nothing. He charged his way to the basket against 3 defenders and it was blocked or he missed...something like that, either way it caught my attention. The coaching staff HAS to know how terrible he is once he starts dribbling so why would they allow that?