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Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It?

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1741 » by AirP. » Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:35 pm

greg4012 wrote:
AirP. wrote:I basically consider Butler, Bam, Herro, Nunn, and Robinson part of "the core", the players I'd like to build around and don't think you could easily upgrade from their roles, I'd like to see Dragic retained, Leonard retained at a much lower number and then the rest of the players utilized to upgrade the roster. Winslow has some very good attributes but with Butler on board, only defensively does he really fit in with him, I'd rather find some other team who is willing to roll the dice on Justise as a main ball handler and acquire a more proven good player(but it has to be a somewhat clear upgrade from current Justise, which will be difficult to do).


I fully agree with your assessment here, but you lose me with some of the moves you've indicated as being willing to make in this thread as a result of the assessment. I see things similar to you and do believe the commitment to the Butler window compels some leveraging of assets for a move now. But, I don't think we are (or should be) looking to make a move just for the sake of making ourselves marginally better if it compromises the flexibility (and ability) for a big boost in 2021. There are moves that can be made using some of our assets that allow for potential improvement without fully compromising the 2021 plan. Now, if we have an opportunity to make a move for a truly elite player, I'm fine with compromising 2021 for that.


Our disagreement comes down to this. How good does a team have to be to have a real chance to win a championship and we also may disagree on how good of a chance is a real chance, hence you wanting a truly elite player and I'm good with a very good player. I think 1 more solid vet scorer(basically an upgrade at the opposite big of Bam) without disrupting much of the roster puts Miami in the position to be a legit contender. I think J.Butler can create enough winning plays near the end of games on both sides of the ball to win more close games than he loses, so to me it's all about keeping the score close for the first 3 1/2 quarters of a game which to me means good defense plus consistent scoring. Miami has the potential to be great on offense and defense and from time to time they look incredible, but it's not consistent and with that we see large swings in the scores in halves or whole games. I'm just about moving as little potential as Miami has to, to add a more consistent scorer to the team which will help Miami and Butler get to those final minutes and have a real chance at winning without having to spend so much energy just to catch up. The biggest hurdle to doing this is maintaining magical cap space to add a top tier player when it should be possible to create the cap room that summer by offloading some of the talent or doing a sign and trade, much like Miami did with Butler this last year.

I'd personally just keep building towards being a better team, if you can maintain space for a max 2021 player sure, but I wouldn't just say no to becoming better the next 2 years because of it. Miami's not that far away from having a real chance, they just need more consistency that the young guys more than likely won't bring for a couple of years if they ever get consistent(some don't).
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1742 » by gom » Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:51 pm

twix2500 wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:As much as I love Dragic I think if a team covets his expiring and we have a chance to keep Winslow we have to go that route first. If Winslow can settle in behind Nunn in that backup PG swiss army play all positions role I think it would be a lot more beneficial to the extended future of this team. I know it will be really hard to make a deal without a young carrot like Winslow to throw in but I would be shopping Dragic and KO for any type of formidable front court help for someone looking to get out of a two year contract and save money going into next year.
I don't there are bigs available that are worth Dragic. Portis intrigues me but he is a not worth Dragic. Another player I think may be had is Willie Cauley Stein. DJJ swap for WCS seems ideal



WCS is a terrible choice. He's a very unmotivated player and a bad fit for Miami. Kings fans despise him.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1743 » by gom » Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:53 pm

Those of you who dismiss out of hand my offer of 3 FRP, a young player with Tyler Herro's potential, and two expiring contracts for Giannis should consider how much Lebron cost us. If the Bucks miss and the Heat look good, Pat can get this done. Giannis is young but he knows there is an hourglass. Needs to be this scenario though. Bucks fall. Heat shine. We got to at least be able to beat the 76ers though or it's all bs.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1744 » by greg4012 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:18 pm

AirP. wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
AirP. wrote:I basically consider Butler, Bam, Herro, Nunn, and Robinson part of "the core", the players I'd like to build around and don't think you could easily upgrade from their roles, I'd like to see Dragic retained, Leonard retained at a much lower number and then the rest of the players utilized to upgrade the roster. Winslow has some very good attributes but with Butler on board, only defensively does he really fit in with him, I'd rather find some other team who is willing to roll the dice on Justise as a main ball handler and acquire a more proven good player(but it has to be a somewhat clear upgrade from current Justise, which will be difficult to do).


I fully agree with your assessment here, but you lose me with some of the moves you've indicated as being willing to make in this thread as a result of the assessment. I see things similar to you and do believe the commitment to the Butler window compels some leveraging of assets for a move now. But, I don't think we are (or should be) looking to make a move just for the sake of making ourselves marginally better if it compromises the flexibility (and ability) for a big boost in 2021. There are moves that can be made using some of our assets that allow for potential improvement without fully compromising the 2021 plan. Now, if we have an opportunity to make a move for a truly elite player, I'm fine with compromising 2021 for that.


Our disagreement comes down to this. How good does a team have to be to have a real chance to win a championship and we also may disagree on how good of a chance is a real chance, hence you wanting a truly elite player and I'm good with a very good player. I think 1 more solid vet scorer(basically an upgrade at the opposite big of Bam) without disrupting much of the roster puts Miami in the position to be a legit contender. I think J.Butler can create enough winning plays near the end of games on both sides of the ball to win more close games than he loses, so to me it's all about keeping the score close for the first 3 1/2 quarters of a game which to me means good defense plus consistent scoring. Miami has the potential to be great on offense and defense and from time to time they look incredible, but it's not consistent and with that we see large swings in the scores in halves or whole games. I'm just about moving as little potential as Miami has to, to add a more consistent scorer to the team which will help Miami and Butler get to those final minutes and have a real chance at winning without having to spend so much energy just to catch up. The biggest hurdle to doing this is maintaining magical cap space to add a top tier player when it should be possible to create the cap room that summer by offloading some of the talent or doing a sign and trade, much like Miami did with Butler this last year.

I'd personally just keep building towards being a better team, if you can maintain space for a max 2021 player sure, but I wouldn't just say no to becoming better the next 2 years because of it. Miami's not that far away from having a real chance, they just need more consistency that the young guys more than likely won't bring for a couple of years if they ever get consistent(some don't).


It's just a weird inconsistency where in one breath you see us as a 7th seed and in another breath you want to act like you think we need less to be championship contending than I do. Pick a lane.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1745 » by AirP. » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:03 pm

greg4012 wrote:It's just a weird inconsistency where in one breath you see us as a 7th seed and in another breath you want to act like you think we need less to be championship contending than I do. Pick a lane.

It's not black and white, it has to do with the lack of consistency younger which make up half or more of Miami's rotation depending on the rotation size that evening. I'm good wildcards/X Factors on the team, just not the amount of them Miami has to rely on. We have a good idea what Butler and Dragic will give Miami when playing, even Bam is getting to that point, but the rest of the roster there's really no idea what they'll bring on any particular game. Is Nunn, Herro, Robinson, DJJ or Winslow hitting their shots that evening? Will Leonard add anything other than eat up time and not miss many shots on offense(since he doesn't shoot much). Olynyk, I see him as an average player, no real issues with him.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1746 » by AirP. » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:07 pm

Miami Is Showing the NBA How to Play Positionless Basketball

The Heat don’t use a traditional point guard; instead, they run their offense through score-first wings like Butler and playmaking bigs like Adebayo. Butler is averaging a career-high 6.8 assists per game, making him one of four Heat players to log more than four assists; guard Goran Dragic (five), Adebayo (4.6), and forward Justise Winslow (4.3) are the others. If they finish the season like this, the Heat will become the eighth team in history to have at least four qualifying players log four assists per game (most recently it was accomplished by Sacramento in 2003-04). In a positionless NBA, it’s become in vogue for teams to rely on multiple ball handlers. As more and more teams play this way and as pace increases to levels not seen since the 1970s, we may see more players log high assist totals like Miami’s have.

Pat Riley assembled a roster full of smart players who make good decisions off the dribble, regardless of position. Spoelstra is maximizing that talent. For example, Adebayo is Miami’s version of Draymond Green, a versatile defender who can serve as a playmaking hub on offense. Miami has him operate primarily from the high post as players cut, fake, and pivot around him. He’ll even go coast-to-coast after rebounds and initiate the offense:


It’s all worked out for the Heat. They’re successfully rebuilding a roster that is one big move away from being a championship favorite. Butler’s ex-teams are a reminder that it can be a long and winding path to contention. Just when it seems a team is taking one step forward, it can take two steps back. For now, Miami is sprinting forward, and Butler is smiling.


https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/12/18/21026962/miami-heat-jimmy-butler-positionless-jrue-holiday-trade
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1747 » by MadD23 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:07 pm

Interesting

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1748 » by Feel_the_Heat15 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:16 pm

MadD23 wrote:Interesting

Read on Twitter


Not really. Herro and Nunn are both rookie guards so they're going to be "bad players" especially defensively.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1749 » by delanka » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:44 pm

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1750 » by delanka » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:45 pm

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1751 » by delanka » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:42 pm

This video is about Dion Waiters messing up his career with his actions as a Miami Heat player.

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1752 » by Bishop45 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:59 pm

delanka wrote:This video is about Dion Waiters messing up his career with his actions as a Miami Heat player.



The Heat's conduct in this shouldn't go unnoticed, but it will

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1753 » by dean456 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:57 am

I feel like Dragic and Winslow aren't playing because we are actively shopping them not because they are injured.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1754 » by puppa bear » Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:51 am

dean456 wrote:I feel like Dragic and Winslow aren't playing because we are actively shopping them not because they are injured.

See I thought maybe we had a deal ready for Dec 15, but nothing materialised.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1755 » by Wiltside » Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:04 am

I mean, it could be somethin fishy...or they could just be injured.

Either way, we'll find out soon enough.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1756 » by Wiltside » Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:26 am

Bam's December so far (10 games):

18.5ppg, 11.3rpg, 5.1apg, 1.3spg, 1.3bpg, 3.2tpg, 37.9mpg on 55.4%fg and 68.3%ft (4.1/6.0)

Think we found our second star. Just need one more offensive weapon, and a big.

For the record, Jimmy has found his mojo too:

23.9ppg, 7.9rpg, 6.9apg, 1.4spg, 0.4bpg, 2.9tpg, 38.8mpg on 43.9%fg, 30.4% 3fg (1.4 per) and 78.6%ft.

Need to find a way to reduce their minutes a little, a bit too high for mine. Should help Jimmy's efficiency improve - but the overall numbers are sick, and everything we could've hoped for.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1757 » by twix2500 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:53 am

gom wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:As much as I love Dragic I think if a team covets his expiring and we have a chance to keep Winslow we have to go that route first. If Winslow can settle in behind Nunn in that backup PG swiss army play all positions role I think it would be a lot more beneficial to the extended future of this team. I know it will be really hard to make a deal without a young carrot like Winslow to throw in but I would be shopping Dragic and KO for any type of formidable front court help for someone looking to get out of a two year contract and save money going into next year.
I don't there are bigs available that are worth Dragic. Portis intrigues me but he is a not worth Dragic. Another player I think may be had is Willie Cauley Stein. DJJ swap for WCS seems ideal



WCS is a terrible choice. He's a very unmotivated player and a bad fit for Miami. Kings fans despise him.
I just watched some of his recent game tape. He looked high as hell.

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1758 » by KingDavid » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:23 pm

delanka wrote:
Read on Twitter

This is exactly what I told you guys was going to happen. Now he has absolutely zero value. I would be floored if we can get rid of his contract now.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1759 » by KingDavid » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:28 pm

Someone mentioned Jonas Valanciunas a bit ago.

Thoughts? Zero clue about him or how he'd fit. But man, he has to be better than Meyers and Kelly.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread - Part 1 - Can You Feel It? 

Post#1760 » by twix2500 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:43 pm

KingDavid wrote:
delanka wrote:
Read on Twitter

This is exactly what I told you guys was going to happen. Now he has absolutely zero value. I would be floored if we can get rid of his contract now.
Yeah unless Bishop becomes the GM of the Knicks, I think he is about to get the Steve Francis treatment. Nobody gonna want him. Just gonna have to chalk it up as if Kendrick Nunn is getting paid 15 mill this year. Let Mion stay home and hopefully his expiring contract becomes desirable next season.

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