Regular Season Game 28: Orlando Magic (12-15) at Denver Nuggets (17-8) - 9pm ET

[Magic_Johnny12]

We're going to trade for Derozan, just watch. This ish can't continue.

[swarlesbarkley]

Gg, Nuggets. See you on your couches with us and the Magic after we both lose in the 1st round.

Denver is a good team - I hope they win the west. Built through drafting just like we have to do. They're basically what we strive to be but in the west.

I promise you, against teams that actually have superstars and gets calls and makes more money for the league then them, they won't make it past even the second round. If you think the league wants the Nuggets over the Rockets, Lakers, or Clippers, you're sadly mistaken. Those 3 have 2 superstars that are popular that makes the league billions. No way is Jokic going.

Also, I'm tired of hearing that we haven't been building from the draft. Isaac, Bamba, and Gordon are all in the rotation from the draft. We also had Oladipo and Payton that we drafted and had prominent roles on this team. Those 5 would make a complete starting lineup. How many players from the draft do we need? We're still mediocre because we've made mistakes as far as trades and coaches until recently. If we cash in on AG and maybe Fournier and Bamba while their value is high and we can be a dangerous team. Just need to be smart about it.

Also, the Nuggets star came from the second round, their go-to scorer wasn't even top 5.

Sorry, I mean they MUST build through the draft just like us because neither of us are a free agent destination. That's why Melo was so important to them and D12 to us. So in a way, we're similar teams in similar situations. They just seemed to hit on draft picks better than we did (and maybe a better coach?).

And yeah, the league would love LA vs Boston in the championship but that hasn't happened in 12+ years. If they really wanted big market vs big market every year, they could do it. But we've had Toronto, Golden State, OKC, Dallas, Cleveland, Miami the last decade. If they really wanted big market vs big market, they're really bad at being corrupt.

[Optimus_Steel]

Wow I missed most of this game up until the 4th quarter, so there was 20-0 run?!??

Up 19 and we let them go on a 24-0 run....

[KillMonger]

I absolutely don't think the Magic are going to do this, but I would *strongly* start shopping Vucevic for the best available combo of assets/young talent.

This team just has no real future as presently constructed.

the man had 20 points 7 rebounds 5 Assists 1 block.....AG went 4-14 but no one is saying anything about him......Vuc can't hit nothing.....vuc so soft.....vuc this....vuc that.....but AG is a whole brick out here but....crickets....just keep the same energy for every player when it's warranted

Agree that AG also doesn't handle the pressure well but, man, Vuc just **** himself anytime he plays someone tough or anytime he may need to step up to close a close game. Like, he's visibly different. Moreso than any other athlete I've seen.

he pretty much played Jokic even....what more do you want him to do....everyone else has to step up....The blame goes to the head of the snake.....It's a flawed roster with a Flawed coach which is pretty much the real problem in terms of everything that is happening on the court.....AG is one of the WORST mid-range shooters in the entire league and yet clifford continues to design plays for him to take those shots.....Messing with linueps throwing off everyone's rhythm......i just can't with this dude.....getting rid of one player isn't going to change a damn thing we need wholesale changes from top to bottom, blaming one player for everything is just not really intelligent imho(not saying you)

[Optimus_Steel]

I absolutely don't think the Magic are going to do this, but I would *strongly* start shopping Vucevic for the best available combo of assets/young talent.

This team just has no real future as presently constructed.

the man had 20 points 7 rebounds 5 Assists 1 block.....AG went 4-14 but no one is saying anything about him......Vuc can't hit nothing.....vuc so soft.....vuc this....vuc that.....but AG is a whole brick out here but....crickets....just keep the same energy for every player when it's warranted

Agree that AG also doesn't handle the pressure well but, man, Vuc just **** himself anytime he plays someone tough or anytime he may need to step up to close a close game. Like, he's visibly different. Moreso than any other athlete I've seen.

He panics and rushes, idk why because he is skilled enough to get it done.

[The Real Dalic]

I absolutely don't think the Magic are going to do this, but I would *strongly* start shopping Vucevic for the best available combo of assets/young talent.

This team just has no real future as presently constructed.

the man had 20 points 7 rebounds 5 Assists 1 block.....AG went 4-14 but no one is saying anything about him......Vuc can't hit nothing.....vuc so soft.....vuc this....vuc that.....but AG is a whole brick out here but....crickets....just keep the same energy for every player when it's warranted

AG is probably the guy that plays the most that holds the team back the most. He was also terrible in that 4th quarter in Utah. It's time to move on from AG.

We really can't outlast how terrible he is. If ownership and management wanna make the playoffs. He's gotta go as soon as possible. Can't put yourself in hole until February. Need to move on from him now.

[thelead]

We had Tobias and Dipo but chose Vuc and Evan when we could have just kept them all.

We now have Fultz and JI but Vuc and Evan are seasoned vets so they understandably get more plays run for them but we need to look to the future. You can’t count on Vuc against tough defenses. Fultz or JI need to be developed into the closing role. Preferably Fultz running the P&R with JI to build chemistry.

[GameOver25]

the man had 20 points 7 rebounds 5 Assists 1 block.....AG went 4-14 but no one is saying anything about him......Vuc can't hit nothing.....vuc so soft.....vuc this....vuc that.....but AG is a whole brick out here but....crickets....just keep the same energy for every player when it's warranted

Agree that AG also doesn't handle the pressure well but, man, Vuc just **** himself anytime he plays someone tough or anytime he may need to step up to close a close game. Like, he's visibly different. Moreso than any other athlete I've seen.

he pretty much played Jokic even....what more do you want him to do....everyone else has to step up....The blame goes to the head of the snake.....It's a flawed roster with a Flawed coach which is pretty much the real problem in terms of everything that is happening on the court.....AG is one of the WORST mid-range shooters in the entire league and yet clifford continues to design plays for him to take those shots.....Messing with linueps throwing off everyone's rhythm......i just can't with this dude.....getting rid of one player isn't going to change a damn thing we need wholesale changes from top to bottom, blaming one player for everything is just not really intelligent imho(not saying you)

Well when you put it like this, this then becomes a WeHam issue and so far we haven't heard or seen much from them. What are we 1-14 vs .500 above teams. With all the advanced metrics you'd think that matters. But that's ok......

[SOUL]

AG couldn't do anything all game.

Fournier was invisible.

Vuc was 1-8 in the second half.

Ross was MIA.

We needed people to step up when Isaac couldn't check back in.

[Knightro]

the man had 20 points 7 rebounds 5 Assists 1 block.....AG went 4-14 but no one is saying anything about him......Vuc can't hit nothing.....vuc so soft.....vuc this....vuc that.....but AG is a whole brick out here but....crickets....just keep the same energy for every player when it's warranted

Couple things...

People on this board, myself included, have been trying to figure out ways to trade Aaron Gordon for the last two years. He's the most likely to go from a contract/ability to replace perspective.

My thoughts on moving Vucevic have nothing to do with tonight. He was obviously better than Gordon and several others who played tonight.

I'm coming at this from a wider perspective.

Vucevic is the Magic's best player right now. That's not really in question. He's a very skilled basketball player. In no way, shape or form does he stink.

The problem is the fact that if Vucevic is your best player and is making over 25% of your salary cap, your overall ceiling is just not going to be very high. A 6-8 seed and a probable first round exit is about as far as this team can go.

It's more fun to be competitive than it is to tank, but at least when you're taking/rebuilding there's the possibility of a great payoff in the end.

The Magic willingly put themselves on the treadmill of mediocrity with no real way to get significantly better.

[drsd]

This game could break Isaac's block shot streak, doesn't have one yet.

The run is done.

..

[Audi]

The last few seasons I’ve gotten the sense that AG doesn’t want to be in Orlando. He wants to be in Cali making movies, growing a brand, and attempting to channel Kobe.

[Audi]

This game could break Isaac's block shot streak, doesn't have one yet.

The run is done.

..

Eh. Due to injury. Shouldn’t count.

[KillMonger]

the man had 20 points 7 rebounds 5 Assists 1 block.....AG went 4-14 but no one is saying anything about him......Vuc can't hit nothing.....vuc so soft.....vuc this....vuc that.....but AG is a whole brick out here but....crickets....just keep the same energy for every player when it's warranted

AG is probably the guy that plays the most that holds the team back the most. He was also terrible in that 4th quarter in Utah. It's time to move on from AG.

We really can't outlast how terrible he is. If ownership and management wanna make the playoffs. He's gotta go as soon as possible. Can't put yourself in hole until February. Need to move on from him now.

I don't think AG is terrible i just think he's having an Identity crisis, he is high level role player in reality but in his head he probably thinks he's a go-to guy. If he just bought into his role he could probably be Draymond Green or Iggy kind of player who is invaluable to a winning team. However AG at times continues to try and force the issue and do things that he's just not good at or is at a high enough level for it to work against NBA talent. Good thing is he's still young and thus still has value around the league, if weltman and hammond are as good as their peers state then they should be able to get something for AG.

[Optimus_Steel]

the man had 20 points 7 rebounds 5 Assists 1 block.....AG went 4-14 but no one is saying anything about him......Vuc can't hit nothing.....vuc so soft.....vuc this....vuc that.....but AG is a whole brick out here but....crickets....just keep the same energy for every player when it's warranted

Agree that AG also doesn't handle the pressure well but, man, Vuc just **** himself anytime he plays someone tough or anytime he may need to step up to close a close game. Like, he's visibly different. Moreso than any other athlete I've seen.

he pretty much played Jokic even....what more do you want him to do....everyone else has to step up....The blame goes to the head of the snake.....It's a flawed roster with a Flawed coach which is pretty much the real problem in terms of everything that is happening on the court.....AG is one of the WORST mid-range shooters in the entire league and yet clifford continues to design plays for him to take those shots.....Messing with linueps throwing off everyone's rhythm......i just can't with this dude.....getting rid of one player isn't going to change a damn thing we need wholesale changes from top to bottom, blaming one player for everything is just not really intelligent imho(not saying you)

Idk that they are designing those, it's more teams giving that up to AG because they know he can't score on his own. Similar to how Tor let AG get whatever he wanted in the 1st round. Main problem is that we lack creators, guys that can create scoring opportunities and as a result suck in the defense and create spacing, we lack that. They cover Vuc, Evan, and Ross by taking away what they are comfortable in and dare AG to score, it's a losing proposition.

[The Real Dalic]

Denver is a good team - I hope they win the west. Built through drafting just like we have to do. They're basically what we strive to be but in the west.

I promise you, against teams that actually have superstars and gets calls and makes more money for the league then them, they won't make it past even the second round. If you think the league wants the Nuggets over the Rockets, Lakers, or Clippers, you're sadly mistaken. Those 3 have 2 superstars that are popular that makes the league billions. No way is Jokic going.

Also, I'm tired of hearing that we haven't been building from the draft. Isaac, Bamba, and Gordon are all in the rotation from the draft. We also had Oladipo and Payton that we drafted and had prominent roles on this team. Those 5 would make a complete starting lineup. How many players from the draft do we need? We're still mediocre because we've made mistakes as far as trades and coaches until recently. If we cash in on AG and maybe Fournier and Bamba while their value is high and we can be a dangerous team. Just need to be smart about it.

Also, the Nuggets star came from the second round, their go-to scorer wasn't even top 5.

Sorry, I mean they MUST build through the draft just like us because neither of us are a free agent destination. That's why Melo was so important to them and D12 to us. So in a way, we're similar teams in similar situations. They just seemed to hit on draft picks better than we did (and maybe a better coach?).

And yeah, the league would love LA vs Boston in the championship but that hasn't happened in 12+ years. If they really wanted big market vs big market every year, they could do it. But we've had Toronto, Golden State, OKC, Dallas, Cleveland, Miami the last decade. If they really wanted big market vs big market, they're really bad at being corrupt.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. As for the teams you chose to list. Those Heat teams had LeBron, Dwade, Shaq and Bosh for those multiple titles. Cleveland had LeBron, Irving, Love. Dallas had Dirk. Golden State had a very popular Curry then eventually Durant as well. Toronto had Kawhi.

The Raptors and Dallas are the two that I think were the most fair points you made. The others I think were a mix of great players + wanting LeBron in the Finals. Don't get me wrong, Playoff LeBron is no joke and would most likely have made the Finals anyway, but the refs definitely want it as well.

Most of those teams were beastly, but you throw the refs into the mix as well, and no wonder they all get to the Finals. The Mavs were actually one of the teams that people think got screwed in that first Finals against the Heat as well.

[Howard Mass]

I think The Magic have some tired legs.

24-0 runs don't just happen because of tired legs. Epic fail job.

It was a disaster.

[thelead]

I’m tired of hearing ‘it’s okay that he couldn’t make anything in the 4th quarter, he played well overall’

No.

All-stars should be able to do the exact opposite. While having a tough night, at least show up big in the 4th. He now has the ‘all-star’ label, he needs to play like one and missing big shots late in games is not what all-stars do

[Howard Mass]

My bad, it was 13 and not 7 points.

Wrong again. 16.

It was a disaster so it doesn't really matter.

[PrimeThyme]

We're going to trade for Derozan, just watch. This ish can't continue.

Wouldnt be surprised. AG for DD has Ibaka 2.0 trade written all over it. On the brightside, it would at least end Wehams time here.