Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 268 in MSG Usman vs Colby 2, Rose vs Zhang 2

[Fury]

Colby should get a participation trophy

[HarthorneWingo]

Colby should get a participation trophy

They had to wire his jaw shut.

[HarthorneWingo]

While I admittedly enjoyed Colby losing, I think this is a fair assessment. I don't want to dump on my man's man too much.

Watch on YouTube

[newyorker4ever]

While I admittedly enjoyed Colby losing, I think this is a fair assessment. I don't want to dump on my man's man too much.

Watch on YouTube

Too late for that.

[j4remi]

While I admittedly enjoyed Colby losing, I think this is a fair assessment. I don't want to dump on my man's man too much.

Watch on YouTube

Too late for that.

I'm curious to see how this plays out when Colby comes back. It feels like he's not getting his props for an impressive as all hell performance, but there's a "you made your bed now sleep in it" aspect to the whole thing. I thought the beef with his own teammates and jokes about Glenn Robinson really went beyond the persona and I'm not surprised at all by the pile on in the immediate aftermath.

But usually with time the heat fades and the performance remains. Even Askren is back to getting some love for his wrestling career and One performances after the heat from the Masvidal fight and the ugliest possible way to go out in that one. Colby will keep collecting checks off the backs of people wanting to see him get beat up just like Tito Ortiz and Chael Sonnen did.

I am curious though if these MMA character moves will start to see diminishing returns. Cejudo's got two belts and a persona and still feels like an afterthought when people talk about P4P fighters and the like. If Covington didn't build up the fight using the dead Blackzilians founder, Kamaru's father's jail time and who's more American; I think he'd be getting HUGE respect all around for going out on his shield that way (Thiago Santos-like). He probably would have gotten half the pay he did for this though, so I don't know how calculate what's better for his career. His legacy might wind up slept on a bit because of people disliking him (kinda how I feel about Conor's run getting downplayed these days) but he'll be much wealthier by tradeoff

[Tron Carter]

I’ve never been a fan of immediate rematches. I’d prefer max face a guy like zabit. Knock off a contender while working on fixing what went wrong in the first match. It was just too decisive imo for there to call for an immediate rematch. It would have been an easier sell if he had gotten knocked out early.

I also don’t think Max should just give up on the idea of 155. I genuinely believe his footwork and takedown defense could pose incredible issued for khabib.

[j4remi]

I’ve never been a fan of immediate rematches. I’d prefer max face a guy like zabit. Knock off a contender while working on fixing what went wrong in the first match. It was just too decisive imo for there to call for an immediate rematch. It would have been an easier sell if he had gotten knocked out early.

I also don’t think Max should just give up on the idea of 155. I genuinely believe his footwork and takedown defense could pose incredible issued for khabib.

Agreed on 155 but he's gotta really take time off to develop his body because his punching power has to be able to back guys off or at least stall them. Diamond got to him by almost punching through the combinations because the lead punches weren't even obstructing his forward motion...to be fair though, Dustin's chin and toughness are rare so Max should be more successful with plenty of others.

On the immediate rematch, I just don't think it was a big enough gap to warrant taking away the second opportunity from Max. There are some rematches where I can't see any adjustment or the fixes are too big to address in time for an immediate rematch (Aldo vs Max actually sorta fit this to me). But in this case, if you come up with a counter for the leg kicks, you're golden. Max outlanded to the head and body for the fight and outlanded Volkanovski on total strikes in the 4th and 5th round. It wasn't a blow out so much as it was Volkanovski edging rounds imo.

[HarthorneWingo]

While I admittedly enjoyed Colby losing, I think this is a fair assessment. I don't want to dump on my man's man too much.

Watch on YouTube

Too late for that.

I'm curious to see how this plays out when Colby comes back. It feels like he's not getting his props for an impressive as all hell performance, but there's a "you made your bed now sleep in it" aspect to the whole thing. I thought the beef with his own teammates and jokes about Glenn Robinson really went beyond the persona and I'm not surprised at all by the pile on in the immediate aftermath.

But usually with time the heat fades and the performance remains. Even Askren is back to getting some love for his wrestling career and One performances after the heat from the Masvidal fight and the ugliest possible way to go out in that one. Colby will keep collecting checks off the backs of people wanting to see him get beat up just like Tito Ortiz and Chael Sonnen did.

I am curious though if these MMA character moves will start to see diminishing returns. Cejudo's got two belts and a persona and still feels like an afterthought when people talk about P4P fighters and the like. If Covington didn't build up the fight using the dead Blackzilians founder, Kamaru's father's jail time and who's more American; I think he'd be getting HUGE respect all around for going out on his shield that way (Thiago Santos-like). He probably would have gotten half the pay he did for this though, so I don't know how calculate what's better for his career. His legacy might wind up slept on a bit because of people disliking him (kinda how I feel about Conor's run getting downplayed these days) but he'll be much wealthier by tradeoff

I would normally agree with that but if Colby goes back to that whole schtick again, then I think it'll actually hurt him going forward. He said he used it to get him where he had to get to. We'll, now he's here. I think it may be time to turn "face."

"And don't forget to say your prayers and take your vitamins, kids!"

[Tron Carter]

I’ve never been a fan of immediate rematches. I’d prefer max face a guy like zabit. Knock off a contender while working on fixing what went wrong in the first match. It was just too decisive imo for there to call for an immediate rematch. It would have been an easier sell if he had gotten knocked out early.

I also don’t think Max should just give up on the idea of 155. I genuinely believe his footwork and takedown defense could pose incredible issued for khabib.

Agreed on 155 but he's gotta really take time off to develop his body because his punching power has to be able to back guys off or at least stall them. Diamond got to him by almost punching through the combinations because the lead punches weren't even obstructing his forward motion...to be fair though, Dustin's chin and toughness are rare so Max should be more successful with plenty of others.

On the immediate rematch, I just don't think it was a big enough gap to warrant taking away the second opportunity from Max. There are some rematches where I can't see any adjustment or the fixes are too big to address in time for an immediate rematch (Aldo vs Max actually sorta fit this to me). But in this case, if you come up with a counter for the leg kicks, you're golden. Max outlanded to the head and body for the fight and outlanded Volkanovski on total strikes in the 4th and 5th round. It wasn't a blow out so much as it was Volkanovski edging rounds imo.

I definitely think max was coming on more towards those championship rounds similar to the porier fight. I just don’t like the risk of him going for an immediate rematch because those boys at ckb are too smart to let volk fight max again with the same game plan he implemented in the first fight. max was adjusting and landing body shots as the fight went on and I’m sure they’re already calculating how to mitigate that if there was a rematch. just would hate the hit Max’s stock would take if he lost back to back. then he’s in an aldo/joanna situation.

I would love the zabit fight for max because I think he would drown him with pressure and volume after the third. give max a highlight win over a heralded undefeated contender to get some shine back on him and then fight volk. maybe have volk defend against the winner of edgar/tkz in the mean time.

[HarthorneWingo]

So does Masvidal take the championship fight against Usman (I think he should) or wait for the winner of Conor vs. Cowboy and hope Conor wins so Jorge can get a mega-fight?

[Tron Carter]

So does Masvidal take the championship fight against Usman (I think he should) or wait for the winner of Conor vs. Cowboy and hope Conor wins so Jorge can get a mega-fight?

he’s agitating to fight Mcgregor 100%. it would be irresponsible if his management advised him otherwise.

[HarthorneWingo]

So does Masvidal take the championship fight against Usman (I think he should) or wait for the winner of Conor vs. Cowboy and hope Conor wins so Jorge can get a mega-fight?

he’s agitating to fight Mcgregor 100%. it would be irresponsible if his management advised him otherwise.

We don't even know if Conor will beat Cerrone. I'd take the championship fight against Usman and should he lose, then the fight against Conor.

[Tron Carter]

So does Masvidal take the championship fight against Usman (I think he should) or wait for the winner of Conor vs. Cowboy and hope Conor wins so Jorge can get a mega-fight?

he’s agitating to fight Mcgregor 100%. it would be irresponsible if his management advised him otherwise.

We don't even know if Conor will beat Cerrone. I'd take the championship fight against Usman and should he lose, then the fight against Conor.

Usman is a terrible matchup for Masvidal. He’s one of my favorite fighters and the most well rounded fighter in the division but he’s probably losing that fight.

He loses and there’s no chance a Mcgregor fight is made.

[HarthorneWingo]

he’s agitating to fight Mcgregor 100%. it would be irresponsible if his management advised him otherwise.

We don't even know if Conor will beat Cerrone. I'd take the championship fight against Usman and should he lose, then the fight against Conor.

Usman is a terrible matchup for Masvidal. He’s one of my favorite fighters and the most well rounded fighter in the division but he’s probably losing that fight.

He loses and there’s no chance a Mcgregor fight is made.

You think Usman kicks Jorge's azz? Jorge is a better striker than Colby, don't you think?

[blanko]

We don't even know if Conor will beat Cerrone. I'd take the championship fight against Usman and should he lose, then the fight against Conor.

Usman is a terrible matchup for Masvidal. He’s one of my favorite fighters and the most well rounded fighter in the division but he’s probably losing that fight.

He loses and there’s no chance a Mcgregor fight is made.

You think Usman kicks Jorge's azz? Jorge is a better striker than Colby, don't you think?

Jorge is a better striker but i think he gets taken down against the Nigerian nightmare

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[blanko]

So does Masvidal take the championship fight against Usman (I think he should) or wait for the winner of Conor vs. Cowboy and hope Conor wins so Jorge can get a mega-fight?

he’s agitating to fight Mcgregor 100%. it would be irresponsible if his management advised him otherwise.

We don't even know if Conor will beat Cerrone. I'd take the championship fight against Usman and should he lose, then the fight against Conor.

Connor will beat cerrone. Cerrone is showing clear signs of mileage.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

[blanko]

Too late for that.

I'm curious to see how this plays out when Colby comes back. It feels like he's not getting his props for an impressive as all hell performance, but there's a "you made your bed now sleep in it" aspect to the whole thing. I thought the beef with his own teammates and jokes about Glenn Robinson really went beyond the persona and I'm not surprised at all by the pile on in the immediate aftermath.

But usually with time the heat fades and the performance remains. Even Askren is back to getting some love for his wrestling career and One performances after the heat from the Masvidal fight and the ugliest possible way to go out in that one. Colby will keep collecting checks off the backs of people wanting to see him get beat up just like Tito Ortiz and Chael Sonnen did.

I am curious though if these MMA character moves will start to see diminishing returns. Cejudo's got two belts and a persona and still feels like an afterthought when people talk about P4P fighters and the like. If Covington didn't build up the fight using the dead Blackzilians founder, Kamaru's father's jail time and who's more American; I think he'd be getting HUGE respect all around for going out on his shield that way (Thiago Santos-like). He probably would have gotten half the pay he did for this though, so I don't know how calculate what's better for his career. His legacy might wind up slept on a bit because of people disliking him (kinda how I feel about Conor's run getting downplayed these days) but he'll be much wealthier by tradeoff

I would normally agree with that but if Colby goes back to that whole schtick again, then I think it'll actually hurt him going forward. He said he used it to get him where he had to get to. We'll, now he's here. I think it may be time to turn "face."

"And don't forget to say your prayers and take your vitamins, kids!"

In the age of Instagram and twitter its about soundbites and coblys schtick will sell again.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

[Tron Carter]

wonder if colby is still gonna pay escorts to carry around his fake belt for him

[j4remi]

I definitely think max was coming on more towards those championship rounds similar to the porier fight. I just don’t like the risk of him going for an immediate rematch because those boys at ckb are too smart to let volk fight max again with the same game plan he implemented in the first fight. max was adjusting and landing body shots as the fight went on and I’m sure they’re already calculating how to mitigate that if there was a rematch. just would hate the hit Max’s stock would take if he lost back to back. then he’s in an aldo/joanna situation.

I would love the zabit fight for max because I think he would drown him with pressure and volume after the third. give max a highlight win over a heralded undefeated contender to get some shine back on him and then fight volk. maybe have volk defend against the winner of edgar/tkz in the mean time.

Here's my thing, what adjustment is there for Volk if the leg kicks get addressed? Nothing else he did was effective. Max won the head strikes battle, won the body strikes battle and stuffed the only takedown attempt with ease. So we didn't really get any evidence that Volkanovski has another path to victory. At least not a clear one. I get the risk that comes with an immediate rematch, but I also don't mind it. I'm that confident in the result. I also don't know how long the leg kick for a points win style will actually float before fans turn on it. I don't like any of the points fighting styles in the UFC though, so count me as biased for sure.

I'm gonna my boy who trained in Thailand back on to talk about how we both think Thailand is gonna produce the next wave (similar to New Zealand's run right now and Russia prior to that) of style changing fighters. Ironically, last time I had him on he said fighters not checking leg kicks was his biggest petpeeve in the game. I want to get his take on that Max fight, because I figure he'll be way harsher on Max than I've been

I do agree that Zabit is the best back-up option, but it's gotta be a five rounder. They keep finding ways to give him three round fights and the last two have looked to me like he'd get smoked in championship rounds off cardio. I think Max would get it done inside of three, but Zabit needs any opponent next to be a five round fight. I wouldn't mind KZ getting Volk...I'm so eager to see Frankie at 135 that I'd root against him sticking around but he's another guy that I don't see the leg kicks strategy working so well with so it could be interesting.

[j4remi]

he’s agitating to fight Mcgregor 100%. it would be irresponsible if his management advised him otherwise.

We don't even know if Conor will beat Cerrone. I'd take the championship fight against Usman and should he lose, then the fight against Conor.

Connor will beat cerrone. Cerrone is showing clear signs of mileage.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

I'm picking Conor but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion. Mainly off Conor being out so long, we don't really know how sharp he'll be and precision has always been his game. Add the cardio issues and if Cerrone can survive the first round onslaught, he may catch an older, rusty Conor slowing down. But I do think Conor probably wins and then the only thing standing in the way of a big waste of our time is Tony Ferguson.