Tuesday game thread discussion

[clyde21]

The 76ers will be fine after they trade one of their role players for a point guard. Power forwards should never be asked to play point guard. The Bucks also tried to have Giannis play point guard and it did not work, but when they traded for Eric Bledsoe they became a much better team. The 76ers should keep Horford because both Simmons and Embiid are injury prone and Horford can play power forward and center. Even with with Simmons and Embiid being healthy, Horford is a good fit because he can play backup for power forward and center which makes for good rotations and gives rest to Simmons and Embiid which will help to prevent them from being injured because of too many minutes.

if Simmons is not gonna be your PG what's the point in even him being on the team at that point?

[youngcrev]

The 76ers will be fine after they trade one of their role players for a point guard. Power forwards should never be asked to play point guard. The Bucks also tried to have Giannis play point guard and it did not work, but when they traded for Eric Bledsoe they became a much better team. The 76ers should keep Horford because both Simmons and Embiid are injury prone and Horford can play power forward and center. Even with with Simmons and Embiid being healthy, Horford is a good fit because he can play backup for power forward and center which makes for good rotations and gives rest to Simmons and Embiid which will help to prevent them from being injured because of too many minutes.

if Simmons is not gonna be your PG what's the point in even him being on the team at that point?

Elite defense and transition play.. same as the current point of him being on the team

[Jamaaliver]

How isn't the lack of perimeter shooting a thing? Particularly on a team with the best post scorer in basketball? It's not just an amount of 3s thing either, they've got a bunch of guys in the starting lineup that naturally want to go to the same spots offensively. They've got an offensive rating of 102.4 with Embiid/Simmons/Horford on the floor. That ranks DEAD LAST in the league.

It's definitely an issue and kudos to you as a 76ers fan able (willing?) to recognize it.

Is there a solution that doesn't require trading Simmons for a sharp-shooting wing player?

[clyde21]

The 76ers will be fine after they trade one of their role players for a point guard. Power forwards should never be asked to play point guard. The Bucks also tried to have Giannis play point guard and it did not work, but when they traded for Eric Bledsoe they became a much better team. The 76ers should keep Horford because both Simmons and Embiid are injury prone and Horford can play power forward and center. Even with with Simmons and Embiid being healthy, Horford is a good fit because he can play backup for power forward and center which makes for good rotations and gives rest to Simmons and Embiid which will help to prevent them from being injured because of too many minutes.

if Simmons is not gonna be your PG what's the point in even him being on the team at that point?

Elite defense and transition play.. same as the current point of him being on the team

so...he's Matisse Thybulle then?

[NY 567]

Simmons is fools gold, he's going to sink the 76ers when it matters most

[dhsilv2]

How isn't the lack of perimeter shooting a thing? Particularly on a team with the best post scorer in basketball? It's not just an amount of 3s thing either, they've got a bunch of guys in the starting lineup that naturally want to go to the same spots offensively. They've got an offensive rating of 102.4 with Embiid/Simmons/Horford on the floor. That ranks DEAD LAST in the league.

It's definitely an issue and kudos to you as a 76ers fan able (willing?) to recognize it.

Is there a solution that doesn't require trading Simmons for a sharp-shooting wing player?

Trading everyone else not named Embiid?

Not hard to see if the goal was to build around Embiid AND Simmons, they put the worst possible supporting cast around them. What's worse is we saw what having 3 simi useful shooters (Covington, Reddick, İlyasova) looked like....and it was clearly a team that just needed to upgrade those roles and add a play maker 6th man and it would be a contender and would fit with the two stars.

[SAKURABA216]

That's a shame its not working. I haven't seen a lot of Simmons, but remember he single-handedly killed the Pistons earlier this year, but who doesn't lol. I do recall that he wasn't much use during the playoffs since he can't shoot.

If he can somehow defend then maybe trade him to the warriors for D-Lo and have him play the 3-spot, but admittedly that's not a very good fit either. Sixers really screwed up by trading Fultz.

[Jamaaliver]

The Sixers' starting lineup -- Ben Simmons, Richardson, Harris, Al Horford and Joel Embiid -- has only appeared in 10 games, logging 117 minutes. That group has been dominant defensively, holding teams to 92.7 points per 100 possessions, but it has scored just 106.5 points per 100 possessions. (For reference, the Sacramento Kings rank 22nd in offensive rating, scoring 106.8 per 100.) The spacing issues inherent in playing Simmons and Embiid together don't need explaining, but Philadelphia's new brand of bully ball has come with an old-school shot profile.

CBS Sports

[NoDopeOnSundays]

No version of Draymond is worth a number 1 pick, there isn't even a draft in the last 15 yrs you can say he should have been 1. Nevermind the circumstance of being drafted by the perfect team to maximize his talent and hide his weaknesses.

Another game for Simmons against a good opponent and another game where he hurts his team because of his refusal to shoot. He had 0 pts and 1 assist in the 4th quarter last night and passed the ball out rather than drive on a 6'3 guard with an open lane. The Heat zone was so effective because a "PG" was camped out on the low block whenever he didn't have the ball, he's just not good.

If Simmons reaches peak 2016 Draymond green and can maintain that level for 5 or so years, he'll be a hall of fame lock and will have absolutely lived up to what a team needs out of a first overall pick. This just isn't debatable. We can go through every first pick in nba history...I'm not even sure half had a 5 year run that strong.

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Drafts we can discuss.

remember we are discussing a peak level dray for 5+ seasons, not actually dray.

2000 - Kenyon Martin. Dray is better
2001 - Kwame Brown. Dray is better
2002 - Ming Ming
2003 - lebron
2004 - Howard
2005 - Bogut - dray is better
2006 - Bargnani - Dray is better
2007 - Oden - Dray is better
2008 - Derrick Rose - sadly due to injuries Dray is better
2009 - Griffin - close enough to debate but lets go Griffin
2010 - Wall - Gotta go dray here
2011 - Irving - again we'd have to go with hypothetical dray
2012 - Davis
2013 - Anthony Bennett - Dray clearly lol
2014 - Wiggins - easy dray
2015 - KAT

So we have 16 drafts with enough time to make a decent to full judgement on careers.

we have 8 absolute no question this hypothetical 5 year's of peak Dray would be better than the actual first pick. Then we have 2-3 that we could debate.

I made it a point to say no version of him was worth a number 1 pick, not whether or not he was better than every number 1 pick. In almost all of those drafts there were multiple players that would be worthy of the number 1 pick, just because teams fumbled the draft doesn't mean that Draymond is a better option. The only draft where he could have been worth the number 1 pick was 2000, and that is outside of the 15 yr range that I said.

01 - Pau
05 - Cp3, Deron Williams
07 - Durant, Conley, Gasol, Horford
08 - Westbrook
10 - PG3
11 - Kemba, Kawhi, Klay, Jimmy
13- Gobert, Giannis
14 - Embiid, Jokic

The years you want to give to Draymond there are undeniably players more worthy of the number 1 pick, and more in line with what teams generally build their franchises around. There is no universe in which you can build a great team with Draymond as your best player, he is a complimentary player whose career has been bolstered by playing with the greatest shooting backcourt ever.

That is to say, again, if Ben Simmons ends up like Draymond then that was a terrible number 1 pick. Right now, people are cutting him slack because there's hope that he can shoot in the future and become more of a scoring threat, if he doesn't improve though and Siakam & Ingram continue on their upward trajectory he will be viewed as a bad number 1 pick.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Another game for Simmons against a good opponent and another game where he hurts his team because of his refusal to shoot. He had 0 pts and 1 assist in the 4th quarter last night and passed the ball out rather than drive on a 6'3 guard with an open lane...he's just not good.

I don't think it's credible to say Ben Simmons isn't good at basketball. He clearly has weaknesses that can be exploited, but he's a top 25 player in the league.

He is being miscast as a perimeter player. Flank him alongside 4 shooters, play him at PF in a manner comparable to Giannis -- he's easily a 20-point triple double monster.

Easily.

I don't think he's very good, and I don't see him as a top 25 player. His weakness is so debilitating to his team, we all know what's going to happen in the playoffs because of those weaknesses.

Everyone says to build around him like Giannis, but that would be wrong. People forget that Giannis averaged 27ppg playing with John Henson in the frontcourt with him clogging up the paint. Ben does not have the aggression or finishing ability of Giannis, and most importantly his ego is why he doesn't play PF, he wants to be viewed as a PG. The Sixers should have gone after Kemba or Brogdon in the offseason but they didn't because Ben does not want to get moved off the ball like that.

[youngcrev]

How isn't the lack of perimeter shooting a thing? Particularly on a team with the best post scorer in basketball? It's not just an amount of 3s thing either, they've got a bunch of guys in the starting lineup that naturally want to go to the same spots offensively. They've got an offensive rating of 102.4 with Embiid/Simmons/Horford on the floor. That ranks DEAD LAST in the league.

It's definitely an issue and kudos to you as a 76ers fan able (willing?) to recognize it.

Is there a solution that doesn't require trading Simmons for a sharp-shooting wing player?

Sure. Replacing Horford with a sharp shooting wing or a playmaking guard that can shoot the ball. It's not like the offense was bad before this year. In previous years the starters would dominate, and then the team would fall off the map when Embiid stepped off the floor. Horford solved one issue while creating a new one.

Simmons is always going to present some level of spacing issues until he starts consistently taking that corner 3, but I think it's something you can work around with the right roster.

[Jamaaliver]

This is some solid, nuanced insight on your team's strengths and weaknesses.

Much appreciated.

[dhsilv2]

No version of Draymond is worth a number 1 pick, there isn't even a draft in the last 15 yrs you can say he should have been 1. Nevermind the circumstance of being drafted by the perfect team to maximize his talent and hide his weaknesses.

Another game for Simmons against a good opponent and another game where he hurts his team because of his refusal to shoot. He had 0 pts and 1 assist in the 4th quarter last night and passed the ball out rather than drive on a 6'3 guard with an open lane. The Heat zone was so effective because a "PG" was camped out on the low block whenever he didn't have the ball, he's just not good.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using RealGM mobile app

Drafts we can discuss.

remember we are discussing a peak level dray for 5+ seasons, not actually dray.

2000 - Kenyon Martin. Dray is better
2001 - Kwame Brown. Dray is better
2002 - Ming Ming
2003 - lebron
2004 - Howard
2005 - Bogut - dray is better
2006 - Bargnani - Dray is better
2007 - Oden - Dray is better
2008 - Derrick Rose - sadly due to injuries Dray is better
2009 - Griffin - close enough to debate but lets go Griffin
2010 - Wall - Gotta go dray here
2011 - Irving - again we'd have to go with hypothetical dray
2012 - Davis
2013 - Anthony Bennett - Dray clearly lol
2014 - Wiggins - easy dray
2015 - KAT

So we have 16 drafts with enough time to make a decent to full judgement on careers.

we have 8 absolute no question this hypothetical 5 year's of peak Dray would be better than the actual first pick. Then we have 2-3 that we could debate.

I made it a point to say no version of him was worth a number 1 pick, not whether or not he was better than every number 1 pick. In almost all of those drafts there were multiple players that would be worthy of the number 1 pick, just because teams fumbled the draft doesn't mean that Draymond is a better option. The only draft where he could have been worth the number 1 pick was 2000, and that is outside of the 15 yr range that I said.

01 - Pau
05 - Cp3, Deron Williams
07 - Durant, Conley, Gasol, Horford
08 - Westbrook
10 - PG3
11 - Kemba, Kawhi, Klay, Jimmy
13- Gobert, Giannis
14 - Embiid, Jokic

The years you want to give to Draymond there are undeniably players more worthy of the number 1 pick, and more in line with what teams generally build their franchises around. There is no universe in which you can build a great team with Draymond as your best player, he is a complimentary player whose career has been bolstered by playing with the greatest shooting backcourt ever.

That is to say, again, if Ben Simmons ends up like Draymond then that was a terrible number 1 pick. Right now, people are cutting him slack because there's hope that he can shoot in the future and become more of a scoring threat, if he doesn't improve though and Siakam & Ingram continue on their upward trajectory he will be viewed as a bad number 1 pick.

If he ends up like Dray, it would be on average a better than average first pick. You can't play this revisionist history. If you pick someone better than half the first picks of the last 15 years, that's not a bad first pick. It's a good one.

[ATRAIN53]

I don't know how they make the numbers work without a 3rd team or some voodoo magic-

but Simmons for Holiday is a no brainer.

Ben played at LSU so the fan base is already there
Holiday and the Sixers have a past history

This stops MIA from stealing Holiday and eliminating them in the playoffs with him.

Kris Dunn would be an excellent fit for Philly, defensive minded PG to get the ball to Embiid
GarPax would save their jobs prying Simmons away from Philly.

[Hipster Doofus]

lol at thread.

[Gday mate]

lol at thread.

It's ridiculous isn't it! Id be trading Embiid and his 3 point shooting ass and surrounding Simmons with shooters if I'm the 6ers GM. Maybe Klay and a top 3 pick.

[Clay Davis]

Drafts we can discuss.

remember we are discussing a peak level dray for 5+ seasons, not actually dray.

2000 - Kenyon Martin. Dray is better
2001 - Kwame Brown. Dray is better
2002 - Ming Ming
2003 - lebron
2004 - Howard
2005 - Bogut - dray is better
2006 - Bargnani - Dray is better
2007 - Oden - Dray is better
2008 - Derrick Rose - sadly due to injuries Dray is better
2009 - Griffin - close enough to debate but lets go Griffin
2010 - Wall - Gotta go dray here
2011 - Irving - again we'd have to go with hypothetical dray
2012 - Davis
2013 - Anthony Bennett - Dray clearly lol
2014 - Wiggins - easy dray
2015 - KAT

So we have 16 drafts with enough time to make a decent to full judgement on careers.

we have 8 absolute no question this hypothetical 5 year's of peak Dray would be better than the actual first pick. Then we have 2-3 that we could debate.

I made it a point to say no version of him was worth a number 1 pick, not whether or not he was better than every number 1 pick. In almost all of those drafts there were multiple players that would be worthy of the number 1 pick, just because teams fumbled the draft doesn't mean that Draymond is a better option. The only draft where he could have been worth the number 1 pick was 2000, and that is outside of the 15 yr range that I said.

01 - Pau
05 - Cp3, Deron Williams
07 - Durant, Conley, Gasol, Horford
08 - Westbrook
10 - PG3
11 - Kemba, Kawhi, Klay, Jimmy
13- Gobert, Giannis
14 - Embiid, Jokic

The years you want to give to Draymond there are undeniably players more worthy of the number 1 pick, and more in line with what teams generally build their franchises around. There is no universe in which you can build a great team with Draymond as your best player, he is a complimentary player whose career has been bolstered by playing with the greatest shooting backcourt ever.

That is to say, again, if Ben Simmons ends up like Draymond then that was a terrible number 1 pick. Right now, people are cutting him slack because there's hope that he can shoot in the future and become more of a scoring threat, if he doesn't improve though and Siakam & Ingram continue on their upward trajectory he will be viewed as a bad number 1 pick.

If he ends up like Dray, it would be on average a better than average first pick. You can't play this revisionist history. If you pick someone better than half the first picks of the last 15 years, that's not a bad first pick. It's a good one.

Well, more properly speaking he'd be a more athletic Draymond, which is crazy since Dray already plays with a high degree of physicality (but wasn't always in shape)

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[MemphisX]

Simmons for DLo?

[igorbianch]

Philly would be much better with spencer dinwiddie. Nets would be better too.

[dhsilv2]

I made it a point to say no version of him was worth a number 1 pick, not whether or not he was better than every number 1 pick. In almost all of those drafts there were multiple players that would be worthy of the number 1 pick, just because teams fumbled the draft doesn't mean that Draymond is a better option. The only draft where he could have been worth the number 1 pick was 2000, and that is outside of the 15 yr range that I said.

01 - Pau
05 - Cp3, Deron Williams
07 - Durant, Conley, Gasol, Horford
08 - Westbrook
10 - PG3
11 - Kemba, Kawhi, Klay, Jimmy
13- Gobert, Giannis
14 - Embiid, Jokic

The years you want to give to Draymond there are undeniably players more worthy of the number 1 pick, and more in line with what teams generally build their franchises around. There is no universe in which you can build a great team with Draymond as your best player, he is a complimentary player whose career has been bolstered by playing with the greatest shooting backcourt ever.

That is to say, again, if Ben Simmons ends up like Draymond then that was a terrible number 1 pick. Right now, people are cutting him slack because there's hope that he can shoot in the future and become more of a scoring threat, if he doesn't improve though and Siakam & Ingram continue on their upward trajectory he will be viewed as a bad number 1 pick.

If he ends up like Dray, it would be on average a better than average first pick. You can't play this revisionist history. If you pick someone better than half the first picks of the last 15 years, that's not a bad first pick. It's a good one.

Well, more properly speaking he'd be a more athletic Draymond, which is crazy since Dray already plays with a high degree of physicality (but wasn't always in shape)

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I mean dray isn't that athletic. His balance is poor, vertical isn't great...he's strong and he's got a good build for the nba, but he's on the lower side of athletic. Simmons clearly is on another planet in terms of that (but doesn't seem to ahve the heart or motor)