How the illegal defense rule made it easier for Jordan to score in the ‘90s

[70sFan]

They weren't good enough?

You're saying a guy like Wali Jones is going to be in the league today or Matt Guokas.

I haven't seen enough of Matt Guokas to judge his chances (and neither you do). Why did you use him as an example? What do you know about Guokas?

Wali Jones was certainly quick and fast enough to be at least decent defensively today. He had very good handles for his day, so I doubt he'd have any problems with adjustements to looser rules. His main problem is his shooting selection - he had three point range but I don't know how accurate he was at these shots and shooting from that far away was stupid back then (that explains his weak FG%). His shooting form was also very strange, but it seems that it worked for him. He also had good size for a PG.

If he'd develop decent three point shot, then I don't see why he wouldn't be enough to play 10-15 mpg. I can see even more to be honest. Modern game would help him correcting shooting selection. If not then it would be tougher, but his defensive effort should be enough to give scouts a thought about him. He wouldn't be anything special, but he at best he could become taller version of Beverly. He could become worse, but worse enough to be too bad for contract on weakest teams? I'd not bet on it.

I took the 6th and 7th man from a team at random. The point being those would be the "average" player on a team.

It's highly unlikely either would make it into the nba.

Why it would be unlikely? What do you know about Wali Jones to make you think he's not good enough to be scrub in today NBA? How many hours of his footage have you seen? Because I've seen at least a few.

[dhsilv2]

I haven't seen enough of Matt Guokas to judge his chances (and neither you do). Why did you use him as an example? What do you know about Guokas?

Wali Jones was certainly quick and fast enough to be at least decent defensively today. He had very good handles for his day, so I doubt he'd have any problems with adjustements to looser rules. His main problem is his shooting selection - he had three point range but I don't know how accurate he was at these shots and shooting from that far away was stupid back then (that explains his weak FG%). His shooting form was also very strange, but it seems that it worked for him. He also had good size for a PG.

If he'd develop decent three point shot, then I don't see why he wouldn't be enough to play 10-15 mpg. I can see even more to be honest. Modern game would help him correcting shooting selection. If not then it would be tougher, but his defensive effort should be enough to give scouts a thought about him. He wouldn't be anything special, but he at best he could become taller version of Beverly. He could become worse, but worse enough to be too bad for contract on weakest teams? I'd not bet on it.

I took the 6th and 7th man from a team at random. The point being those would be the "average" player on a team.

It's highly unlikely either would make it into the nba.

Why it would be unlikely? What do you know about Wali Jones to make you think he's not good enough to be scrub in today NBA? How many hours of his footage have you seen? Because I've seen at least a few.

Honestly at this point I could just take your view, make a reasonable adjustment down, and I could get there. These guys weren't athletic enough. The starting guards were questionable as heck, let alone the backups. Jerry West is a great athlete from that era, today he'd still be a good nba player, but he looked like a mutant from another planet. Oscar again would be a player today without a doubt, but again the way his body glided over the floor looks like normal nba players today...that simple glide to his movement made him look like a different species to the players around him.

Seeing that someone is nba level athletic is just something you can see imo, especially when you see them compared to guys who simply aren't. The 60's and 70's you could just watch the guys move and see those that just didn't have it. It might sound like a cop out but having watched the sport for 20+ years and having spent thousands of hours in gyms around elite athletes, it's just something that you start to see. I can't tell you an elite college guy will make it in the nba, but almost always I can pickup on the guys that just don't have the tools. Sometimes I'm off...I'm pretty bad sometimes at development time (never thought for example Tyler Herro could be this nba read so fast, just thought he'd get pushed out too much)...but a lot of the guys in that era just didn't have what it took to be a standout in D1 in today's era.

[Greyhound]

Modern spacing is a lot more advantageous to players like Jordan than the illegal defense rule could ever be.

Also for historical reference the league was barely enforcing illegal defense by the 2nd Bulls threepeat. It was officially ended in 01 but was only lightly enforced in the last few years leading up to it being removed from the rule book. This would have helped him in the 80s more than the 90s.

Not really.

What illegal defense did back then was artificially create space. The type of space you need reliable shooters to achieve today.

Back then you were forced to defend a Rodman or some stiff behind the three point line even though they were no threat from out there.

Today you could just use their man as a roaming help defender, so long as you locate them for the box out.

That benefited team construction in Jordan’s era because you could play a defensive guy that could not shoot in order to benefit from his defense, and still get the spacing you would now need a reliable shooter to generate.

...

None of this changes my belief that Jordan is the greatest non big to ever play, but these are the facts, Jack.

[Showtime 80]

LOL Greyhound, here’s a nice video so you can educate yourself:

Watch on YouTube

;t=411s

In reality the illegal defense rules gave more freedom because nobody knew how the hell to interprete or enforce them.

You can clearly see the Piston perimeter defenders completely IGNORING the Bulls standing at the 3 point line basically “guarding” 8 feet away from them at the free throw line with one foot in the paint waiting to collapse on any attack towards the basket (Jordan Rules).

Like the video stated illegal defense didn’t mean you had to stick to your man like glue specially if they were standing at the 3 point line even with competent shooters like Paxson, Hodges or Pippen so forget about any defender coming out there to guard Horace Grant, Bill Cartwright or Dennis Rodman in the future. Illegal defense basically required de defender to look in the direction of the offensive player to indicate commitment and that was it.

Heck you can clearly see Bill Laimbeer, John Salley and James Edwards playing the role of free safeties not GUARDING ANYBODY and just parking themselves underneath the basket, this would be illegal in today’s NBA with the defensive 3 second rule. Also with all the scrambling going on the defense could also double the post without the ball.

Basically MJ had A LOT LESS space to work than any of today’s perimeter posers not only because the rules allowed for a ton of physicality on offensive players when compared to today’s soft rule altered defense neutering era but because NOBODY on the Bulls shot the 3 consistently enough for the defense to come out and respect them and as you saw before they could just pack the paint and smother any penetration which was MJ’s bread and butter.

In reality guys like Harden, Curry, Dumbrook, Giannis and even LeBald would’ve crapped their jock straps if they were put in place of MJ in those Bulls teams under those rules and against those packed in defenses.

[70sFan]

I took the 6th and 7th man from a team at random. The point being those would be the "average" player on a team.

It's highly unlikely either would make it into the nba.

Why it would be unlikely? What do you know about Wali Jones to make you think he's not good enough to be scrub in today NBA? How many hours of his footage have you seen? Because I've seen at least a few.

Honestly at this point I could just take your view, make a reasonable adjustment down, and I could get there. These guys weren't athletic enough. The starting guards were questionable as heck, let alone the backups. Jerry West is a great athlete from that era, today he'd still be a good nba player, but he looked like a mutant from another planet. Oscar again would be a player today without a doubt, but again the way his body glided over the floor looks like normal nba players today...that simple glide to his movement made him look like a different species to the players around him.

Seeing that someone is nba level athletic is just something you can see imo, especially when you see them compared to guys who simply aren't. The 60's and 70's you could just watch the guys move and see those that just didn't have it. It might sound like a cop out but having watched the sport for 20+ years and having spent thousands of hours in gyms around elite athletes, it's just something that you start to see. I can't tell you an elite college guy will make it in the nba, but almost always I can pickup on the guys that just don't have the tools. Sometimes I'm off...I'm pretty bad sometimes at development time (never thought for example Tyler Herro could be this nba read so fast, just thought he'd get pushed out too much)...but a lot of the guys in that era just didn't have what it took to be a standout in D1 in today's era.

Jerry West didn't look like a mutant... I think that you watched too few 1960s games to be honest. Because sure, West was elite athlete for his era, but he didn't do things impossible for others back then. Dave Bing was just as athletic and he had more modern handles (and three point range). Walt Frazier was quicker than West and also had more modern handles, his pull-up game was also very advanced. Sam Jones looks like modern player. Hal Greer was small, but he had Parker-esque game with midrange shot and variety of floaters. He was also very fast. Hell, you can watch a 6'1 scrub Jimmy King dunking in halfcourt, palming the ball with ease and using spectacular footwork to score. And he was a scrub, below average player.

You have ti remember that Bob Cousy is not 1960s player. He played 3 seasons in that decade and wasn't real star anymore. 1960s guards didn't look like Cousy. Jerry West was so much better not because of athleticism.

Tell me exactly what makes you believe that they were that bad. Show me examples on tape. If you push such a strong narrative, you need to have good evidence.

[dhsilv2]

Why it would be unlikely? What do you know about Wali Jones to make you think he's not good enough to be scrub in today NBA? How many hours of his footage have you seen? Because I've seen at least a few.

Honestly at this point I could just take your view, make a reasonable adjustment down, and I could get there. These guys weren't athletic enough. The starting guards were questionable as heck, let alone the backups. Jerry West is a great athlete from that era, today he'd still be a good nba player, but he looked like a mutant from another planet. Oscar again would be a player today without a doubt, but again the way his body glided over the floor looks like normal nba players today...that simple glide to his movement made him look like a different species to the players around him.

Seeing that someone is nba level athletic is just something you can see imo, especially when you see them compared to guys who simply aren't. The 60's and 70's you could just watch the guys move and see those that just didn't have it. It might sound like a cop out but having watched the sport for 20+ years and having spent thousands of hours in gyms around elite athletes, it's just something that you start to see. I can't tell you an elite college guy will make it in the nba, but almost always I can pickup on the guys that just don't have the tools. Sometimes I'm off...I'm pretty bad sometimes at development time (never thought for example Tyler Herro could be this nba read so fast, just thought he'd get pushed out too much)...but a lot of the guys in that era just didn't have what it took to be a standout in D1 in today's era.

Jerry West didn't look like a mutant... I think that you watched too few 1960s games to be honest. Because sure, West was elite athlete for his era, but he didn't do things impossible for others back then. Dave Bing was just as athletic and he had more modern handles (and three point range). Walt Frazier was quicker than West and also had more modern handles, his pull-up game was also very advanced. Sam Jones looks like modern player. Hal Greer was small, but he had Parker-esque game with midrange shot and variety of floaters. He was also very fast. Hell, you can watch a 6'1 scrub Jimmy King dunking in halfcourt, palming the ball with ease and using spectacular footwork to score. And he was a scrub, below average player.

You have ti remember that Bob Cousy is not 1960s player. He played 3 seasons in that decade and wasn't real star anymore. 1960s guards didn't look like Cousy. Jerry West was so much better not because of athleticism.

Tell me exactly what makes you believe that they were that bad. Show me examples on tape. If you push such a strong narrative, you need to have good evidence.

Says Cousy wasn't a 60's player because he only played 3 years, then lists Bing and Frazier who played 3 and 2 seasons in the 60's...

But you're way too much focused on what they are doing and not how they are built. Look at how West is built, his bone structure, his length. West is long, fluid, yet powerful.

[70sFan]

Honestly at this point I could just take your view, make a reasonable adjustment down, and I could get there. These guys weren't athletic enough. The starting guards were questionable as heck, let alone the backups. Jerry West is a great athlete from that era, today he'd still be a good nba player, but he looked like a mutant from another planet. Oscar again would be a player today without a doubt, but again the way his body glided over the floor looks like normal nba players today...that simple glide to his movement made him look like a different species to the players around him.

Seeing that someone is nba level athletic is just something you can see imo, especially when you see them compared to guys who simply aren't. The 60's and 70's you could just watch the guys move and see those that just didn't have it. It might sound like a cop out but having watched the sport for 20+ years and having spent thousands of hours in gyms around elite athletes, it's just something that you start to see. I can't tell you an elite college guy will make it in the nba, but almost always I can pickup on the guys that just don't have the tools. Sometimes I'm off...I'm pretty bad sometimes at development time (never thought for example Tyler Herro could be this nba read so fast, just thought he'd get pushed out too much)...but a lot of the guys in that era just didn't have what it took to be a standout in D1 in today's era.

Jerry West didn't look like a mutant... I think that you watched too few 1960s games to be honest. Because sure, West was elite athlete for his era, but he didn't do things impossible for others back then. Dave Bing was just as athletic and he had more modern handles (and three point range). Walt Frazier was quicker than West and also had more modern handles, his pull-up game was also very advanced. Sam Jones looks like modern player. Hal Greer was small, but he had Parker-esque game with midrange shot and variety of floaters. He was also very fast. Hell, you can watch a 6'1 scrub Jimmy King dunking in halfcourt, palming the ball with ease and using spectacular footwork to score. And he was a scrub, below average player.

You have ti remember that Bob Cousy is not 1960s player. He played 3 seasons in that decade and wasn't real star anymore. 1960s guards didn't look like Cousy. Jerry West was so much better not because of athleticism.

Tell me exactly what makes you believe that they were that bad. Show me examples on tape. If you push such a strong narrative, you need to have good evidence.

Says Cousy wasn't a 60's player because he only played 3 years, then lists Bing and Frazier who played 3 and 2 seasons in the 60's...

But you're way too much focused on what they are doing and not how they are built. Look at how West is built, his bone structure, his length. West is long, fluid, yet powerful.

But I'm talking about late 1960s in this thread, you can find my quotes. Cousy didn't play in late 60s, they did.

You act like today all players are built the same way. They aren't. There are a lot of long and explosive guys, a lot of roubst and powerful ones, a lot of short but coordinated ones. Give Wali Jones modern clothes and shoes and he would look like today basketball player. He's not unathletic, he's tall and coordinated. There is not a single physical parameter that would suggest he's not suited to play basketball. Just look at him:



Sorry but so far you haven't shown any legit argument against Wali Jones. He's built like many players today are. He's not slow and he had basketball coordination. His agility was also fair given poor shoes and courts.

[dhsilv2]

Jerry West didn't look like a mutant... I think that you watched too few 1960s games to be honest. Because sure, West was elite athlete for his era, but he didn't do things impossible for others back then. Dave Bing was just as athletic and he had more modern handles (and three point range). Walt Frazier was quicker than West and also had more modern handles, his pull-up game was also very advanced. Sam Jones looks like modern player. Hal Greer was small, but he had Parker-esque game with midrange shot and variety of floaters. He was also very fast. Hell, you can watch a 6'1 scrub Jimmy King dunking in halfcourt, palming the ball with ease and using spectacular footwork to score. And he was a scrub, below average player.

You have ti remember that Bob Cousy is not 1960s player. He played 3 seasons in that decade and wasn't real star anymore. 1960s guards didn't look like Cousy. Jerry West was so much better not because of athleticism.

Tell me exactly what makes you believe that they were that bad. Show me examples on tape. If you push such a strong narrative, you need to have good evidence.

Says Cousy wasn't a 60's player because he only played 3 years, then lists Bing and Frazier who played 3 and 2 seasons in the 60's...

But you're way too much focused on what they are doing and not how they are built. Look at how West is built, his bone structure, his length. West is long, fluid, yet powerful.

But I'm talking about late 1960s in this thread, you can find my quotes. Cousy didn't play in late 60s, they did.

You act like today all players are built the same way. They aren't. There are a lot of long and explosive guys, a lot of roubst and powerful ones, a lot of short but coordinated ones. Give Wali Jones modern clothes and shoes and he would look like today basketball player. He's not unathletic, he's tall and coordinated. There is not a single physical parameter that would suggest he's not suited to play basketball. Just look at him:



Sorry but so far you haven't shown any legit argument against Wali Jones. He's built like many players today are. He's not slow and he had basketball coordination. His agility was also fair given poor shoes and courts.

Like I said...if you can't see it, there's just not much more I can do. This is like trying to explain the color red to someone who's never seen it before...maybe some can do it, but I really can't.

[70sFan]

Says Cousy wasn't a 60's player because he only played 3 years, then lists Bing and Frazier who played 3 and 2 seasons in the 60's...

But you're way too much focused on what they are doing and not how they are built. Look at how West is built, his bone structure, his length. West is long, fluid, yet powerful.

But I'm talking about late 1960s in this thread, you can find my quotes. Cousy didn't play in late 60s, they did.

You act like today all players are built the same way. They aren't. There are a lot of long and explosive guys, a lot of roubst and powerful ones, a lot of short but coordinated ones. Give Wali Jones modern clothes and shoes and he would look like today basketball player. He's not unathletic, he's tall and coordinated. There is not a single physical parameter that would suggest he's not suited to play basketball. Just look at him:



Sorry but so far you haven't shown any legit argument against Wali Jones. He's built like many players today are. He's not slow and he had basketball coordination. His agility was also fair given poor shoes and courts.

Like I said...if you can't see it, there's just not much more I can do. This is like trying to explain the color red to someone who's never seen it before...maybe some can do it, but I really can't.

You can explain red color by saying it has wavelength around 700 nm. Meanwhile you don't use any fact to explain your opinion. It's just your subjective take, nothing more. Sorry, but that's not enough to believe you. Wali Jones looks different to 2010s PGs only because of short shorts and big afro.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

You're saying a guy like Wali Jones is going to be in the league today or Matt Guokas.

Give them 3 point shots of Patty Mills and JJ Reddick and they might be in the league.

[dhsilv2]

But I'm talking about late 1960s in this thread, you can find my quotes. Cousy didn't play in late 60s, they did.

You act like today all players are built the same way. They aren't. There are a lot of long and explosive guys, a lot of roubst and powerful ones, a lot of short but coordinated ones. Give Wali Jones modern clothes and shoes and he would look like today basketball player. He's not unathletic, he's tall and coordinated. There is not a single physical parameter that would suggest he's not suited to play basketball. Just look at him:



Sorry but so far you haven't shown any legit argument against Wali Jones. He's built like many players today are. He's not slow and he had basketball coordination. His agility was also fair given poor shoes and courts.

Like I said...if you can't see it, there's just not much more I can do. This is like trying to explain the color red to someone who's never seen it before...maybe some can do it, but I really can't.

You can explain red color by saying it has wavelength around 700 nm. Meanwhile you don't use any fact to explain your opinion. It's just your subjective take, nothing more. Sorry, but that's not enough to believe you. Wali Jones looks different to 2010s PGs only because of short shorts and big afro.

Yeah...cause telling a blind person 700 nm will be useful.

[70sFan]

Like I said...if you can't see it, there's just not much more I can do. This is like trying to explain the color red to someone who's never seen it before...maybe some can do it, but I really can't.

You can explain red color by saying it has wavelength around 700 nm. Meanwhile you don't use any fact to explain your opinion. It's just your subjective take, nothing more. Sorry, but that's not enough to believe you. Wali Jones looks different to 2010s PGs only because of short shorts and big afro.

Yeah...cause telling a blind person 700 nm will be useful.

It would be more useful than your take based on only on opinion. Your take lacks any objective facts, it's only a matter of your opinion. That is not up to reality, because we have a lot of guys in the league that don't have superior physique, genes or however you'd like to call it.

Wali Jones looked like a normal basketball player. If it's so clear to you that he didn't, then it should be easy to explain that. And please, don't try to say me that I haven't seen enough athletes/basketball players. You are not the only one who plays and watches basketball, or competes in athletic competitions.

[Knicks Byke]

The four/five out spacing and completely WIDE OPEN lanes and no hand-checking of today's game would be far more beneficial to Jordan than the illegal defenses rule. This isn't debatable. He'd average 45+ a game in today's league.

combined w his elite athleticism.

[xdrta+]

You can explain red color by saying it has wavelength around 700 nm. Meanwhile you don't use any fact to explain your opinion. It's just your subjective take, nothing more. Sorry, but that's not enough to believe you. Wali Jones looks different to 2010s PGs only because of short shorts and big afro.

Yeah...cause telling a blind person 700 nm will be useful.

It would be more useful than your take based on only on opinion. Your take lacks any objective facts, it's only a matter of your opinion. That is not up to reality, because we have a lot of guys in the league that don't have superior physique, genes or however you'd like to call it.

Wali Jones looked like a normal basketball player. If it's so clear to you that he didn't, then it should be easy to explain that. And please, don't try to say me that I haven't seen enough athletes/basketball players. You are not the only one who plays and watches basketball, or competes in athletic competitions.

You cannot overcome recency bias.

[No-more-rings]

I love how the same arguments used to be screamed by 1990s guys about 1960s and 1970s. Now we have people who think that guys from 1990s were terrible. 20 years later people will doubt that James is any good. Can't wait for that one.

I would imagine that within 5-10 years we're going to see a generational all time great enter the league, and he'll go on to rival the legacy of Lebron James. I know some think or want Giannis to be that guy, but i don't think he'll be Lebron good, because it's obvious his passing or shooting will never reach that level. Doncic is getting a lot of hype, and rightfully so but i don't know if he'll ever develop into a good enough defender to challenge goat status, but i guess time will tell.

Anyway, i don't think this next guy is in the league yet, but when he does Lebron will either be retired or heavily declined, so when that player's career comes to a close or when they're in the middle of their prime we'll probably start to hear things to downgrade Lebron James. I think in time Lebron definitely becomes the new Jordan on this board, 20 years from now if realgm is still here the Lebron fans will get made fun of similar to how Jordan fans do.

[70sFan]

I love how the same arguments used to be screamed by 1990s guys about 1960s and 1970s. Now we have people who think that guys from 1990s were terrible. 20 years later people will doubt that James is any good. Can't wait for that one.

I would imagine that within 5-10 years we're going to see a generational all time great enter the league, and he'll go on to rival the legacy of Lebron James. I know some think or want Giannis to be that guy, but i don't think he'll be Lebron good, because it's obvious his passing or shooting will never reach that level. Doncic is getting a lot of hype, and rightfully so but i don't know if he'll ever develop into a good enough defender to challenge goat status, but i guess time will tell.

Anyway, i don't think this next guy is in the league yet, but when he does Lebron will either be retired or heavily declined, so when that player's career comes to a close or when they're in the middle of their prime we'll probably start to hear things to downgrade Lebron James. I think in time Lebron definitely becomes the new Jordan on this board, 20 years from now if realgm is still here the Lebron fans will get made fun of similar to how Jordan fans do.

That's true and it's sad. We should appreciate the best players ever instead of making fun of them.

[dhsilv2]

You can explain red color by saying it has wavelength around 700 nm. Meanwhile you don't use any fact to explain your opinion. It's just your subjective take, nothing more. Sorry, but that's not enough to believe you. Wali Jones looks different to 2010s PGs only because of short shorts and big afro.

Yeah...cause telling a blind person 700 nm will be useful.

It would be more useful than your take based on only on opinion. Your take lacks any objective facts, it's only a matter of your opinion. That is not up to reality, because we have a lot of guys in the league that don't have superior physique, genes or however you'd like to call it.

Wali Jones looked like a normal basketball player. If it's so clear to you that he didn't, then it should be easy to explain that. And please, don't try to say me that I haven't seen enough athletes/basketball players. You are not the only one who plays and watches basketball, or competes in athletic competitions.

I clearly stated I can't explain it, why you feel the need to keep belaboring the point is beyond me. Being around enough athletes and see the difference, it just becomes something you start to pickup on.

And frankly, the idea that it's just so easy to explain is pretty crazy to me. I'm sure someone who studied bio mechanics and muscle fibers, joint insertions, etc for years might be able to do it, but frankly I don't have the education to pick apart these things. Instead, you can just see it. It's like when you walk into a gym and you spot the guy who's going to be benching 500 in 5 years of training from the guys who will never break 300. There are a lot factors but when you see the right combinations, it just looks like it. It's as I said, like explaining red. Odds are you just have known red since someone taught it to you by just pointing.

[70sFan]

Yeah...cause telling a blind person 700 nm will be useful.

It would be more useful than your take based on only on opinion. Your take lacks any objective facts, it's only a matter of your opinion. That is not up to reality, because we have a lot of guys in the league that don't have superior physique, genes or however you'd like to call it.

Wali Jones looked like a normal basketball player. If it's so clear to you that he didn't, then it should be easy to explain that. And please, don't try to say me that I haven't seen enough athletes/basketball players. You are not the only one who plays and watches basketball, or competes in athletic competitions.

I clearly stated I can't explain it, why you feel the need to keep belaboring the point is beyond me. Being around enough athletes and see the difference, it just becomes something you start to pickup on.

If you can't explain it, then it's nothing than baseless opinion. Sorry but that's the truth.

BTW, how many minutes of Wali Jones footage have you seen?

[dhsilv2]

It would be more useful than your take based on only on opinion. Your take lacks any objective facts, it's only a matter of your opinion. That is not up to reality, because we have a lot of guys in the league that don't have superior physique, genes or however you'd like to call it.

Wali Jones looked like a normal basketball player. If it's so clear to you that he didn't, then it should be easy to explain that. And please, don't try to say me that I haven't seen enough athletes/basketball players. You are not the only one who plays and watches basketball, or competes in athletic competitions.

I clearly stated I can't explain it, why you feel the need to keep belaboring the point is beyond me. Being around enough athletes and see the difference, it just becomes something you start to pickup on.

If you can't explain it, then it's nothing than baseless opinion. Sorry but that's the truth.

BTW, how many minutes of Wali Jones footage have you seen?

Again, it isn't baseless. It certainly is an opinion...

[70sFan]

I clearly stated I can't explain it, why you feel the need to keep belaboring the point is beyond me. Being around enough athletes and see the difference, it just becomes something you start to pickup on.

If you can't explain it, then it's nothing than baseless opinion. Sorry but that's the truth.

BTW, how many minutes of Wali Jones footage have you seen?

Again, it isn't baseless. It certainly is an opinion...

Saying that you can't explain it but it's true is not a good base. I'm sure that you wouldn't say the same thing about Wali Jones if he played later, even with the same physique.

You still didn't tell me anything about Wali Jones as a basketball player. What were his weaknesses that wouldn't translate today? What were his strengths? What do you know about him? Because judging someone on pictures is the worst thing you can do as a scout.