Iowa Wolves/G League talk

[Klomp]

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Could actually end up being a really nice trade chip for a franchise that doesn't have many of them.

[Jedzz]

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Could actually end up being a really nice trade chip for a franchise that doesn't have many of them.

A guy that can maybe really play and on the ultra cheap for 4 years and you want to trade him?

Only thing that is respected here is the high paid crap. Arn't you one of the people that says trading Roco is bad becuase he's on a great contract for what he offers?

Hold onto Reid and think about why in the hell they won't play him yet.

[Klomp]

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Could actually end up being a really nice trade chip for a franchise that doesn't have many of them.

A guy that can maybe really play and on the ultra cheap for 4 years and you want to trade him?

Only thing that is respected here is the high paid crap. Arn't you one of the people that says trading Roco is bad becuase he's on a great contract for what he offers?

Hold onto Reid and think about why in the hell they won't play him yet.

Do I want to keep Reid? Of course. Is it possible his value on the open market exceeds whatever the high end of his value here would be as a backup center behind an all-star franchise player locked into a longterm deal? Of course.

You're right, maybe the alternative is to keep Reid locked in on a cheap deal and trade Towns instead. Is that as likely? Probably not. That's why I presented this as a POSSIBILITY. Not a request or a demand in order for the franchise to keep my fanhood. There are millions of trade possibilities out there, and I'm just bringing up one. I'm not going to refuse to trade a guy just because he's cheap.

All I said was that he could be a nice trade chip for a franchise that doesn't have many. I never said I want to trade him.

[Jedzz]

Could actually end up being a really nice trade chip for a franchise that doesn't have many of them.

A guy that can maybe really play and on the ultra cheap for 4 years and you want to trade him?

Only thing that is respected here is the high paid crap. Arn't you one of the people that says trading Roco is bad becuase he's on a great contract for what he offers?

Hold onto Reid and think about why in the hell they won't play him yet.

Do I want to keep Reid? Of course. Is it possible his value on the open market exceeds whatever the high end of his value here would be as a backup center behind an all-star franchise player locked into a longterm deal? Of course.

You're right, maybe the alternative is to keep Reid locked in on a cheap deal and trade Towns instead. Is that as likely? Probably not. That's why I presented this as a POSSIBILITY. Not a request or a demand in order for the franchise to keep my fanhood. There are millions of trade possibilities out there, and I'm just bringing up one. I'm not going to refuse to trade a guy just because he's cheap.

All I said was that he could be a nice trade chip for a franchise that doesn't have many. I never said I want to trade him.

You said you were open to it. I'm not confused about that at all. I'm saying you are nuts for being open to it given the depth of missing shooting talent on the actual Timberwolves team. I'm also taking into account that you obviously see absolutely no other option for Reid except for a Center role. Which is plum crazy and classic Wolves prescripted limiting imaginations we seem to do with nearly everyone. I'm not going to call him a point guard, but to offer the example of Magic Johnson, a 6-9 player who once started a game at Center in the playoffs and played through all positions in that game, this example is to hopefully keep your mind open. Without actually testing Reid a little bit more, trading a player that has been showing what he has is completely, fantastically wrong in my book. Why be open to it when we can't even claim Wolves have 3 or 4 sure fire starters on this team.

All reports about a lack of speed, overweight, out of shape, and poor excuses like that can all just fall away to the truth of what we see him do in games at each level now. There is one level to test him at yet. If getting him that chance demands trying him at SF or PF because we have Towns eating up all the minutes at Center, so be it. Because we need a better damned PF anyway. Then you have games where Towns is not playing, now what is the excuse? It's all a bunch of crap decisions leading to not testing this player and the idea of trading such away before vetting all options just blows my mind.

If saying so hurts your feelings, well it's not intentional, because you aren't actually making the calls for this team. I mean to put a dent in the feelings of those actually stashing a player like this so thoroughly behind a bunch of players that can't shoot, and pigeonholing him to a single positional future while simultaneously on the starting roster they use one SF body as a G/PG, and another SF at PF, and now are forcing the development of another wing at PG. I'm so utterly sick of the double standards, the contracts that rule decisions, and lack of desire to get shooters on the floor here.

If Naz Reid ran the floor for 30 minutes in an 82 game season and all the other running done for starters throughout the season, he could drop down to anywhere in weight, even 230-245 might become his base weight. That's Jae Crowder heavy but no more. A lot like players like Taj and Covington that look like they have chicken wire for legs by mid season and simply didn't have the mass to play PF with any force here. Naz is supposedly around Height 6′ 9″, Weight 249 range now. There is no reason we couldn't test him at PF. At 6-9, there is no reasons at some point he couldn't turn into a SF in his career. Who knows right now? If he sprouts 2 to 3 inches in height, then maybe you can start pigeonholing him to center a bit more. But his weight shouldnt. Just like Kevin Love's weight didn't.

[Slim Tubby]

With where this season appears to be headed, guys like Reid, Culver, Nowell and KBD need to get as many minutes as possible with the big squad the remainder of this season to see what we really have in them.

[old school 34]

With where this season appears to be headed, guys like Reid, Culver, Nowell and KBD need to get as many minutes as possible with the big squad the remainder of this season to see what we really have in them.

We hammered the wolves for years about not using the G-league....we get a team now & using it a ton & like lead the league in minutes played of pulling guys up & playing....& still guys hammer that we aren't open to giving guys shots. Reid & Nowell are the only two that haven't gotten a significant window in the first 25 games of the season....we're okay to stay patient here....they're still getting minutes somewhere & improving....which is great. It's okay to try to have as many guys as possible playing somewhere to see who can eventually figure it out &/or create any kind of limited trade value? Yeah, the writing is on the wall for some, but unless a significant trade is going to happen to make us significant playoff contenders and we go into a more win now mode....play those guys everywhere & look at all of them. If Nowell & Reid which I love both are going to make it in the league with us...it's fine if they don't crack the rotation consistently until after trade deadline....just want to see them continue to kill it in G-league and be confident that they're being coached up & developed to succeed once here?

Reid is a Center to me from what I've seen from him up until this point & per how we want that SF & PF to have the ability to switch onto a G defensively. That said...if he can slim down & change some things defensively (development wise)....he increases his value a ton if he can add some position flexibility to his game & reports sound like lighter, faster, improving on defense are all things you want to be hearing....so that's positive and folks should remain patient....I just don't buy into some getting frustrated saying it's the same old wolves stuff...yeah, we're not winning but still being managed very differently....will they be better...we'll see but it's different & more modern to the way the game is trending...so it gives me hope.

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[minimus]

https://youtu.be/6PSsbXEGuHY

Future HoF

[SmokeyPaw]

Nowell being recalled:

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[Jedzz]

Reid is a Center to me from what I've seen from him up until this point & per how we want that SF & PF to have the ability to switch onto a G defensively. That said...if he can slim down & change some things defensively (development wise)....he increases his value a ton if he can add some position flexibility to his game & reports sound like lighter, faster, improving on defense are all things you want to be hearing....so that's positive and folks should remain patient....I just don't buy into some getting frustrated saying it's the same old wolves stuff...yeah, we're not winning but still being managed very differently....will they be better...we'll see but it's different & more modern to the way the game is trending...so it gives me hope.

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Kevin Love his first year as a Wolves player was 6'9 255. They tried him at Center some as a rookie and he was manhandled.

I believe Reid is 6'9 and 250. He looked a little pudgy coming in as a rook, a lot like Love did.

Karl Towns is 7 ft 247 and he gets pushed around by the big boys.

Kevin Love since 2013 has been playing at something like 6'10 240 to 245.

I really wish people would stop projecting the center role onto Reid as there is no telling what he will actually be best at and givin what he's actually showing capable of it should be left wide open.

Oh yeah. KBD is 6'9 225 (who knows what position he plays), Vonleh is 6'10 245 (C/PF), Covington is 6'9 225 (SF[wolves pf ]. There is no telling whether he sticks at his current height and weight, sheds weight into the zone of a couple of these guys, or if he climbs in height weight yet. That is, unless you pigeonhole him and feed him like an offensive lineman to create a lumbering center. At the moment, he's really not tall enough. Dieng is 6'11 251 and clearly not big or baddassenough. I can't figure out what possible reasoning people would have for actually wanting Reid to only amount to a 10 minute a night backup to Towns. They should hope for anything more than just that, settle for that if that's all he ends up being. But imagine the best for him for 5 seconds and the best for a 6'9 talented shooter is wide open.

[Klomp]

Kevin Love his first year as a Wolves player was 6'9 255. They tried him at Center some as a rookie and he was manhandled.

I believe Reid is 6'9 and 250. He looked a little pudgy coming in as a rook, a lot like Love did.

Karl Towns is 7 ft 247 and he gets pushed around by the big boys.

Kevin Love since 2013 has been playing at something like 6'10 240 to 245.

I really wish people would stop projecting the center role onto Reid as there is no telling what he will actually be best at and givin what he's actually showing capable of it should be left wide open.

Oh yeah. KBD is 6'9 225 (who knows what position he plays), Vonleh is 6'10 245 (C/PF), Covington is 6'9 225 (SF[wolves pf ]. There is no telling whether he sticks at his current height and weight, sheds weight into the zone of a couple of these guys, or if he climbs in height weight yet. That is, unless you pigeonhole him and feed him like an offensive lineman to create a lumbering center. At the moment, he's really not tall enough. Dieng is 6'11 251 and clearly not big or baddassenough. I can't figure out what possible reasoning people would have for actually wanting Reid to only amount to a 10 minute a night backup to Towns. They should hope for anything more than just that, settle for that if that's all he ends up being. But imagine the best for him for 5 seconds and the best for a 6'9 talented shooter is wide open.

Eras and systems are different. Players can play different positions in different schemes. In THIS scheme, Towns, Reid and Love would all be centers.

[Jedzz]

Eras and systems are different. Players can play different positions in different schemes. In THIS scheme, Towns, Reid and Love would all be centers.

Sorry, I can't agree even 5% with such limited talk.

Please explain how he is any different than our other 6'9 players who really can't defend or shoot at their wing or PF positions. Tell me again how you think he's too slow to switch or defend from those positions. I'll call you full of it again.

"This scheme" and current players by the way shot 23% from three again on 10 of 42 attempts. Reid could help that by playing any role in this "scheme". Any. All they do is shoot 3s but can't hit them. He can maybe do that better from any role at all in this one trick analytics scheme. That's how deep the theories go behind this offensive scheme, that shoot enough 3s and you can hang close in any game by score. Too bad we can't play a better shooter because we claim he's only a 6'9 center in this league and we have too many larger bigs in front of him.

[Klomp]

Eras and systems are different. Players can play different positions in different schemes. In THIS scheme, Towns, Reid and Love would all be centers.

Sorry, I can't agree even 5% with such limited talk.

Please explain how he is any different than our other 6'9 players who really can't defend or shoot at their wing or PF positions. Tell me again how you think he's too slow to switch or defend from those positions. I'll call you full of it again.

"This scheme" and current players by the way shot 23% from three again on 10 of 42 attempts. Reid could help that by playing any role in this "scheme". Any. All they do is shoot 3s but can't hit them. He can maybe do that better from any role at all in this one trick analytics scheme. That's how deep the theories go behind this offensive scheme, that shoot enough 3s and you can hang close in any game by score. Too bad we can't play a better shooter because we claim he's only a 6'9 center in this league and we have too many larger bigs in front of him.

Not talking about offense.

On defense, we essentially switch 2-4 and sometimes 1-4. Can't really do that with those guys.

[Jedzz]

On defense, we essentially switch 2-4 and sometimes 1-4. Can't really do that with those guys.

Full circle. Claims you can't back up. Baseless claims that he can't do these things. You can't even assure us that he can't actually do this very thing better than our current players that were selected to do this and have been failing.

[Klomp]

On defense, we essentially switch 2-4 and sometimes 1-4. Can't really do that with those guys.

Full circle. Claims you can't back up. Baseless claims that he can't do these things. You can't even assure us that he can't actually do this very thing better than our current players that were selected to do this and have been failing.

Better shut down the site then, because technically none of us can back up anything because we aren't around the team every day.

[K4P]

Jaylen Nowell is probably my favorite guy from the G league crew. He just has so much poise and scoring ability you could see him carving out a nice NBA career.

[Jedzz]

On defense, we essentially switch 2-4 and sometimes 1-4. Can't really do that with those guys.

Full circle. Claims you can't back up. Baseless claims that he can't do these things. You can't even assure us that he can't actually do this very thing better than our current players that were selected to do this and have been failing.

Better shut down the site then, because technically none of us can back up anything because we aren't around the team every day.

No need to shut down the site at all. Just need you to soften your slanted takes on this. See other possibilites that you clearly haven't allowed for in your mind. Yet.

[old school 34]

Full circle. Claims you can't back up. Baseless claims that he can't do these things. You can't even assure us that he can't actually do this very thing better than our current players that were selected to do this and have been failing.

Better shut down the site then, because technically none of us can back up anything because we aren't around the team every day.

No need to shut down the site at all. Just need you to soften your slanted takes on this. See other possibilites that you clearly haven't allowed for in your mind. Yet.

Jedzz--

To be clear....in my take (if misunderstood)---I said currently that's how I view him per height, weight, wingspan, foot speed (per the eye test), etc.

Also, stated that he would significantly improve value to the team if he can develop &/or fix some of those things in his game to give him more position flexibility thus making him even more valuable to the team. Just as you say everyone else is being stubborn about considering him...your choosing to ignore a lot of trends as well. Ultimately every situation & individual is different. But currently how we want to play defensively & how he's currently defending...his best position imo would be C---but young & can very much change w/ more time being developed.

Extremely small sample sizes for the G-league guys individually...but as a whole collectively when given their opportunities none have been able to sustain their shooting percentages even to average & most their defense has been bad. KBD has even come back down significantly since coming up & he's the most seasoned of the bunch....which makes sense....development with these types of guys can happen but it takes time & patience. I'm going to trust Rosas & the rest of the coaches that they know when it's best to move a guy up & what position he's best prepared to play @? If Reid was so ready to play SF or PF---why wouldn't they play him there down in the G-League first?

[Jedzz]

Extremely small sample sizes for the G-league guys individually...but as a whole collectively when given their opportunities none have been able to sustain their shooting percentages even to average & most their defense has been bad. KBD has even come back down significantly since coming up & he's the most seasoned of the bunch....which makes sense....development with these types of guys can happen but it takes time & patience. I'm going to trust Rosas & the rest of the coaches that they know when it's best to move a guy up & what position he's best prepared to play @? If Reid was so ready to play SF or PF---why wouldn't they play him there down in the G-League first?

See now you are talking about things I have concerns or reservations about making claims on yet.
On Reid:
There can be hundreds of reasons that could satisfy your last question that could have little to do with what Reid can or can't do yet. We could write a book on the endless possibilities.

Let's throw in one random scenario.
Reid is signed longterm and ultra cheap. That leaves focusing on him later an option.
For this season maybe they had a PF or larger Wing they wanted to prepare for earlier use on the main team now. (KBD?, Other?) But they also wanted minutes for Ried and the Gleage team needed a Center. Maybe this is as deep as it goes for now. Is this possible? Should a situation like this label him as only a center?

You mentioned his size, measurables leading largely to your view on him. The size he currently is conversely leads me to believe he still could have other options and has us maybe disagreeing on this. If you were to take his actual height / weight and compare it with the top 30 NBA Centers right now, he's in the bottom 3 range by size with other players that are used as both PF/Center roles. I do admit his size could change vastly over the next year, or maybe it stays roughly as is.

On the shooting averages shown by the few Gleaguer shots so far:
Some of the minor situations they've gotten may have been good for them or bad for them. It's up to the players to make the best of it, but that doesn't mean it should be the end of it already. These minutes have been minor. Maybe Martin having the most chances. For example, Martin had one game where he only really got sustained time in the 4th quarter of a blowout loss and coming in cold he was asked to jack up 6 threes in a matter of a few minutes. Not exactly a great situation to be forced into. Not exactly the outcome Martin wanted to prove who he is with either. But thems the breaks for a nobody.

You've already sort of attributed failure to the Gleaguers that got playing time, "none have been able to sustain their shooting percentages even to average & most their defense has been bad". That's a pretty strong statement given they haven't played much yet.

Let me contrast that statement with the output shown by Culver (a top 6 pick) who has played 27 games, 15 starts and averaged 23 minutes per game. He's avg'd 34% FG, 45% 2FG, 23% 3FGs, 43% FT and yet he's still playing. Did you completely write him off yet? He's had maybe 6 games of showing a much higher shooting%. At least that proved while still a rookie that he is capable of higher ability against NBA level foes at some point. That's something. But again, 19 games above 20 minutes is a really good shot to prove something with.

Let's contrast what Culver has shown to what Martin has shown as the most minutes from a Gleaguer w/obviously less opportunity and lessor ideal situations than Culver.
Martin: 9 games, 0 starts, 13 mins/g, 34% FG, 50% 2FG%, 21% 3FG, 0 FT attempts

Martin in games of at least 20 mins (2 games): 67% FG, 50% 3FGs on 4 attempts/g, 6.5 Boards
Culver in games of at least 20 mins (19 games): 39% FG, 29% 3FGs on 4.3 attempts/g, 3.8 Boards

Martin's best shooting games: (the only two 20min+ games, 24 each)
86% FG on 6 of 7, 67% 3FG on 2 of 3, 14 pts (+21)
50% FG on 4 of 8, 40% 3FG on 2 of 5, 10 pts (+1)

Culvers best three shooting games: (these are 23 - 27 mins each)
83% FG on 5 of 6, 100% 3FG on 1 of 1, 12 pts (-4)
60% FG on 6 of 10, 0% 3FG on 0 of 2, 12 pts (+3)
47% FG on 8 of 17, 44% 3FG on 4 of 9, 20 pts (-1)

Those are good numbers for both players. But obviously Culvers had many more bad games at high mins to drop his average down significantly during his total of >20min games. We don't know if Martin would drop in more games at >20 mins, all we know is that he was successful with his two games >20 mins. Some people might argue 20 mins is a good breaking point for being warm enough to play at a high level, to get enough chances to shoot from opportune moments, etc.

While none of the Gleaguers have shown a sustained average or higher percentage in all of their rare minutes, that would be an exteme requirement that not even most of their starters could be held to. Mclaughlin struggled on both ends. Nowell has struggled shooting 3s, but hasn't struggled on 2s or defense really. As for Martin, the +/- during Martin's >20 mins vs Culvers >20 min games isn't showing any kind of problem. But sure he's been up and down, yet he's shown some heady moments. It's pretty difficult to start reading defense claims into the rare game moments they've gotten so far.

Using Martin as an example I think we can show that there can be at least something available from Gleaguers if they can get >20 mins now and then to prove it, or just more games to start getting comfortable at this level.

[Jedzz]

Also, stated that he would significantly improve value to the team if he can develop &/or fix some of those things in his game to give him more position flexibility thus making him even more valuable to the team. Just as you say everyone else is being stubborn about considering him...your choosing to ignore a lot of trends as well. Ultimately every situation & individual is different. But currently how we want to play defensively & how he's currently defending...his best position imo would be C---but young & can very much change w/ more time being developed.

Glad to hear you are open to the possibility. However I don't think I'm ignoring a lot of trends, please expound. If anything, I think some people are ignoring a new change that might be trending now.

If we rattled off the list of teams that buggered the Wolves already this year with either shear size overall, two bigs, or just one beast center, the percentage of games is pretty surprising. This past offseason I think the moves to get larger by a number of teams wasn't highly reported on. Some of it happening late. I'm not sure if the moves to add bigs around the league has been pushed by the Lakers moves, or that plus the imploding events around the Warriors roster or what. But Look around now.

For years the Warriors were supposedly "setting the trend". But for years I have argued that teams that don't have players capable of what the Warrior's high level unique players could shouldn't be trying to copy them and in doing so creating such a trend. Who even got near beating them doing so?

Spurs, Raptors, Bucks all went their own way.

It's not like the Wolves are copying the Rockets even, since they won't let Wiggins attempt to own the Harden role.

Wolves just blew chunks on 10 straight games of trying to play small ball, I guess, 18 lossess already. Even though they say we like to put oversized players in guard roles to gain height advantages, we are still supposedly going small.

I just heard Atlanta is looking for a new Center.
I also hear people talking a about a new 7 footer going near top of the draft again. Last draft all the supersized centers dropped off the map. Can't make this stuff up from year to year but it happens.

[old school 34]

Extremely small sample sizes for the G-league guys individually...but as a whole collectively when given their opportunities none have been able to sustain their shooting percentages even to average & most their defense has been bad. KBD has even come back down significantly since coming up & he's the most seasoned of the bunch....which makes sense....development with these types of guys can happen but it takes time & patience. I'm going to trust Rosas & the rest of the coaches that they know when it's best to move a guy up & what position he's best prepared to play @? If Reid was so ready to play SF or PF---why wouldn't they play him there down in the G-League first?

See now you are talking about things I have concerns or reservations about making claims on yet.
On Reid:
There can be hundreds of reasons that could satisfy your last question that could have little to do with what Reid can or can't do yet. We could write a book on the endless possibilities.

Let's throw in one random scenario.
Reid is signed longterm and ultra cheap. That leaves focusing on him later an option.
For this season maybe they had a PF or larger Wing they wanted to prepare for earlier use on the main team now. (KBD?, Other?) But they also wanted minutes for Ried and the Gleage team needed a Center. Maybe this is as deep as it goes for now. Is this possible? Should a situation like this label him as only a center?

You mentioned his size, measurables leading largely to your view on him. The size he currently is conversely leads me to believe he still could have other options and has us maybe disagreeing on this. If you were to take his actual height / weight and compare it with the top 30 NBA Centers right now, he's in the bottom 3 range by size with other players that are used as both PF/Center roles. I do admit his size could change vastly over the next year, or maybe it stays roughly as is.

On the shooting averages shown by the few Gleaguer shots so far:
Some of the minor situations they've gotten may have been good for them or bad for them. It's up to the players to make the best of it, but that doesn't mean it should be the end of it already. These minutes have been minor. Maybe Martin having the most chances. For example, Martin had one game where he only really got sustained time in the 4th quarter of a blowout loss and coming in cold he was asked to jack up 6 threes in a matter of a few minutes. Not exactly a great situation to be forced into. Not exactly the outcome Martin wanted to prove who he is with either. But thems the breaks for a nobody.

You've already sort of attributed failure to the Gleaguers that got playing time, "none have been able to sustain their shooting percentages even to average & most their defense has been bad". That's a pretty strong statement given they haven't played much yet.

Let me contrast that statement with the output shown by Culver (a top 6 pick) who has played 27 games, 15 starts and averaged 23 minutes per game. He's avg'd 34% FG, 45% 2FG, 23% 3FGs, 43% FT and yet he's still playing. Did you completely write him off yet? He's had maybe 6 games of showing a much higher shooting%. At least that proved while still a rookie that he is capable of higher ability against NBA level foes at some point. That's something. But again, 19 games above 20 minutes is a really good shot to prove something with.

Let's contrast what Culver has shown to what Martin has shown as the most minutes from a Gleaguer w/obviously less opportunity and lessor ideal situations than Culver.
Martin: 9 games, 0 starts, 13 mins/g, 34% FG, 50% 2FG%, 21% 3FG, 0 FT attempts

Martin in games of at least 20 mins (2 games): 67% FG, 50% 3FGs on 4 attempts/g, 6.5 Boards
Culver in games of at least 20 mins (19 games): 39% FG, 29% 3FGs on 4.3 attempts/g, 3.8 Boards

Martin's best shooting games: (the only two 20min+ games, 24 each)
86% FG on 6 of 7, 67% 3FG on 2 of 3, 14 pts (+21)
50% FG on 4 of 8, 40% 3FG on 2 of 5, 10 pts (+1)

Culvers best three shooting games: (these are 23 - 27 mins each)
83% FG on 5 of 6, 100% 3FG on 1 of 1, 12 pts (-4)
60% FG on 6 of 10, 0% 3FG on 0 of 2, 12 pts (+3)
47% FG on 8 of 17, 44% 3FG on 4 of 9, 20 pts (-1)

Those are good numbers for both players. But obviously Culvers had many more bad games at high mins to drop his average down significantly during his total of >20min games. We don't know if Martin would drop in more games at >20 mins, all we know is that he was successful with his two games >20 mins. Some people might argue 20 mins is a good breaking point for being warm enough to play at a high level, to get enough chances to shoot from opportune moments, etc.

While none of the Gleaguers have shown a sustained average or higher percentage in all of their rare minutes, that would be an exteme requirement that not even most of their starters could be held to. Mclaughlin struggled on both ends. Nowell has struggled shooting 3s, but hasn't struggled on 2s or defense really. As for Martin, the +/- during Martin's >20 mins vs Culvers >20 min games isn't showing any kind of problem. But sure he's been up and down, yet he's shown some heady moments. It's pretty difficult to start reading defense claims into the rare game moments they've gotten so far.

Using Martin as an example I think we can show that there can be at least something available from Gleaguers if they can get >20 mins now and then to prove it, or just more games to start getting comfortable at this level.

Jedzz....we agree more than we disagree. I'm not on the polar opposite end of the spectrum, but instead much more the middle. I like the G-league guys....I'd argue as much as you. Where we differ is just how quick we write off the other guys. You say I'm writing the G-league guys because I'm comfortable them staying & developing there. I'm comfortable them staying there & developing there because you don't write off the other cheap vets that if you pulled the G-league guys up....those guys don't go down...they sit & get disgruntled. And @ some point that may be the correct path....just don't think you need to rush to that path if your not hellbent on making playoffs this year. All the things both of us throw out to support our end objectives...could be valid...nothing concrete to make either argument fact.

In regards to Reid's size....like I'll repeat obviously @ his height he has the possibility to have position flexibility that could go both ways....but only if he changes body type....he had one of the highest body fat counts in the draft & since High school, thru college, & the limited nba time....his defensive metrics have not been good @ least by all reports &/or scouts that I've read....all while he's been playing C. Can he make that adjustment....absolutely....would it be wise for him....absolutely. If he wants to be a starter in this league...he probably needs to morph to a PF....just from what I see so far...not there yet....but still definitely possible.

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