Tatum and Brown, as 1-2 Options

[keevsnick1]

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That shot was really a better decision than passing to Romeo for an open 3 would have been?

Well Brown is shooting 50% from 16ft+ this year, and Romeo Langford is shooting 28.4% from 3. So (2 x .5= 1) vs (3 x .284=.852) actually yes, statically it is.

Now I'm being a little tongue in cheek because both those numbers are in a very small sample size and you almost always want to get the open three vs a contest 2 so you are right in principle. Still that was a fun shot.

[31to6]

I just need to freak out a bit that someone is still calling Jaylen a 3 and D player.

[GoGreen]

My "bold" prediction: In 5 years, not accounting for trades or signings, JB will be our best overall player. Tatum will probably be our scoring machine, but Jaylen will lead us in big games. He's got "it."

[Big Joke Line]

I always thought JB had the higher likelihood to becoming a star but that Tatum’s ceiling was a little higher.

A lot of this had to do with intensity and desire which I didn’t get from JT before this year. He still has a ways to go in that area IMO but I’m a lot more confident in his getting there since he’s displayed it a lot more regularly this season.

That said with JB’s continued body transformation I’m not sure who I now feel has the higher ceiling.

To me it’s clear as day. Tatum is the one with a chance to be a superstar and he is already showing he can be #1 option. Brown is excelling in his role as third banana. I don’t think you would want him to be a #1 even on a bad team. Brown is killing it as a 3 and D guy and bringing even more to the table than that while Tatum is still struggling as he adapts to role as teams best player.

Theres a chance this is how it ends up for sure, but I'm not sure why exactly Brown can't be a superstar. The only thing Tatum can do right now that Brown cant is that step-back/side-step three. Everything else they are fairy comparable. And Brown has certainly improved a lot since his rookie year. Tatum is younger which obviously helps him, but three years from now if Brown is the better player it wouldn't surprise me and It wouldn't necessarily mean Tatum was a disappointment just that Brown is really good.

JB made a side step 3 last game. I believe Jefferson commented on it specifically.

[Braindesign]

I just need to freak out a bit that someone is still calling Jaylen a 3 and D player.

Tatum goes for 39 on 29 FGA (granted an impressive 22 points in the 4th) and he's the second coming of Larry Bird

Brown goes for 30 on 13 FGA and he's a nice 3 and D guy. A decent third scoring option

In virtually every way except free throws, Brown is better today at scoring the basketball than Tatum. I really think it's a function of people still holding onto how raw Brown was coming into the league vs how polished Tatum was. Based upon trajectory, Brown projects to be the more elite offensive player of the two.

[cloverleaf]

The dude with some serious midrange stats is Hayward.

[Braindesign]

The dude with some serious midrange stats is Hayward.

Yes

He has an exceptional mid-range game. Great from the arc and great point forward too. He's also 30 by the end of the year, can't stay healthy and will be going into a contract year next season.

I hope he can reverse his health luck and sticks around on a team friendly deal after next season. Maybe he'd do that playing for Brad.

[zoyathedestroya]

The dude with some serious midrange stats is Hayward.

Yep. He can get anywhere on the floor pretty much anytime he wants. He's not getting to the FT line as much as before though. Will post his shot chart/profile on the Hayward thread sometime in January once sample size's bigger. Hope he stays healthy from here on out.

[31to6]

I just need to freak out a bit that someone is still calling Jaylen a 3 and D player.

Tatum goes for 39 on 29 FGA (granted an impressive 22 points in the 4th) and he's the second coming of Larry Bird

Brown goes for 30 on 13 FGA and he's a nice 3 and D guy. A decent third scoring option

In virtually every way except free throws, Brown is better today at scoring the basketball than Tatum. I really think it's a function of people still holding onto how raw Brown was coming into the league vs how polished Tatum was. Based upon trajectory, Brown projects to be the more elite offensive player of the two.

I won’t argue that he’s our 3rd scoring option, he is.
It’s just that 3rd doesn’t equal “3 and d” even though they have several similar letters.

[estendius]

Will JB and JT become our Kawhi and PG ?

[zoyathedestroya]

Will JB and JT become our Kawhi and PG ?

Come June, Clippers fans are gonna wish Kawhi and PG could become Brown and Tatum.

[5InOfLouisville]

i don't know that i buy the argument that JB benefits from JT being a primary focus of defenses. I've heard it for some time now. I'm not discounting it completely, and there may be some validity to it, but I'm just not sure.

I've watched all of our games. I have seen teams scheme particularly to stop Kemba, but can't recall them doing so for anybody else on the squad, unless they happen to be on a hot streak. Now it is entirely possible i missed it, but I don't know that teams gameplanning to stop Tatum is a reality or a Celtics fan illusion.

That said, JT does bring the ball up more and initiate the offense, which I would agree benefits JB. The d has time to set up around JT, while JB can move or spot up and attempt to get the ball where he wants, while JT would have to work against a set D to initiate his offense.

However, the same is true for Tatum when JB or(more often) Kemba brings the ball up the floor.

I do agree that JT does more initiating of the offense than JB, and is perhaps better at it. I just don't agree that teams are gameplanning around Tatum to the degree that maybe we think.

Again, im not picking favorites. I'm high on both of them and theyre both Celtics, and I'm excited to watch them continue to grow.

[ddb]

Tatum/Brown are the best young wing duo in the league BY FAR.

[CelticsPride18]

Tatum/Brown are the best young wing duo in the league BY FAR.

By 2021 it will be a trio with Romeo Langford.

[TommyPointGawd]

We need to stop putting either of these guys in a box. The only thing Tatum needs, is to stop forcing shots and stop trying bait fouls. He is the only guy that consistently breaks the offense and doesn't make the extra pass. He has already fixed his early season issues of not taking any midranges in exchange for barrelling to the rim. That can be attributed to youth and him still trying to prove himself.

The one thing I want to see more of, is the Jay's making each other better instead of taking turns. It seems that only one of them play well at a time even if its quarter to quarter.

[Slartibartfast]

We need to stop putting either of these guys in a box. The only thing Tatum needs, is to stop forcing shots and stop trying bait fouls. He is the only guy the consistently
breaks the offense and doesn't make the extra pass. He has already fixed his early season issues of not taking any midranges in exchange for barrelling to the rim. That can be attributed to youth and him still trying to prove himself.

The one thing I want to see more of, is the Jay's making each other better instead of taking turns. It seems that only one of them play well at a time even if its quarter to quarter.

Playmaking is still the biggest weakness of both. Jaylen just doesn't exacerbate it by consuming as many possessions/holding on to the ball.

They can both make solid passes when the help commits and basic flow of the offense passes from a stand still, but they are not Pierce/T-Mac/Kobe style wings who played like playmaking 2-guards. They are Kawhi/Melo/Granger scoring SF types who have learned how to keep guys on their back in PNR.

[GoCeltics123]

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[Big Joke Line]

I just need to freak out a bit that someone is still calling Jaylen a 3 and D player.

I wonder if the 7 RPG counts as D. And where the steadily climbing creating for teammates fits in...

[GuyClinch]

i don't know that i buy the argument that JB benefits from JT being a primary focus of defenses. I've heard it for some time now. I'm not discounting it completely, and there may be some validity to it, but I'm just not sure.

Well coach Stevens doesn't buy it either. If you notice he tends to go Jaylen with some other guys and JT with some other guys and often splits those guys at the game goes on.

Team is MUCH better on offense statistically when Hayward is in there. I personally don't care about 5 years from now. This team can do damage right now. So for me I think Kemba and Hayward really make the offense go - and those guys need guys to help them with playmaking. This is why he likes Grant Williams quite a bit - like Hayward he has above average BBIQ.

Brown and Tatum are both improving.. I think Coach is improving their decision making in the plays so they now make some decent decisions. But Tatum in particular can get tunnel vision and force some stuff. That's about the only really negative - and much of the time Tatum can dominate his opposition - so his one on one stuff is not all bad..

What makes this team so much better is that Coach has satisfied some of the egos.. Chucker Morris is gone. Horford is gone. Kyrie is gone.. Hayward can blend in so now our high pick wing guys can play their game.. Actual addition through subtraction..

Horford in particular was hugely overrated by fans - a real plodding ball stopper on offense. Our offense this year is flat out better then last year. Kyrie had the talent but was unwilling to buy into the system or quell his ego enough..

[sam_I_am]

I always thought JB had the higher likelihood to becoming a star but that Tatum’s ceiling was a little higher.

A lot of this had to do with intensity and desire which I didn’t get from JT before this year. He still has a ways to go in that area IMO but I’m a lot more confident in his getting there since he’s displayed it a lot more regularly this season.

That said with JB’s continued body transformation I’m not sure who I now feel has the higher ceiling.

To me it’s clear as day. Tatum is the one with a chance to be a superstar and he is already showing he can be #1 option. Brown is excelling in his role as third banana. I don’t think you would want him to be a #1 even on a bad team. Brown is killing it as a 3 and D guy and bringing even more to the table than that while Tatum is still struggling as he adapts to role as teams best player.

Theres a chance this is how it ends up for sure, but I'm not sure why exactly Brown can't be a superstar. The only thing Tatum can do right now that Brown cant is that step-back/side-step three. Everything else they are fairy comparable. And Brown has certainly improved a lot since his rookie year. Tatum is younger which obviously helps him, but three years from now if Brown is the better player it wouldn't surprise me and It wouldn't necessarily mean Tatum was a disappointment just that Brown is really good.

I don’t want to project the future because who is to say how good someone can get when they are improving at the rate JB has so far. I never said Jaylen can’t continue to grow as a scorer and playmaker or be the better overall player some day. But some day is not today.

I think people are overrating JBs 10-13 performances and underrating Tatum’s 5-18 ones. Clearly JB had an amazing game and Jayson had one of his poorest. However, Tatum is taking on a much more difficult role. He is being asked to be the first option and attack the defense aggressively and it is for the betterment of the team and not selfish at all. Yes he is struggling and needs to get better but I think Jaylen would too. If Jaylen were asked to be first option and to initiate offense I think he would turn it over too much without being nearly as big of a threat to score every time like Tatum and Kemba. It’s not just Brad’s offense because it was true in FIBA games too.

I do think it is true right now that Jaylen is enjoying more success as a McHale than Jason is trying to be a Bird.