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Around The NBA: 2019-20 RESTART

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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#181 » by dice » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:31 am

LordGrim wrote:
dice wrote:
LordGrim wrote:
Luckily other stars caught on and beat him at his own game of super teaming in Durant and Kawhi.

I have never seen a star in any sport play on such a tilted court before in my life when it comes to calls and narratives. Every bspn commercial today featured lequit. Its absolutely disgusting. Hes lucky to not be ringless in all honesty.

I could make a huge list of critical calls/non calls in games that have swung series or even championships in his favor and hes still 3-6 despite hand picking his teams with talent while beating up kindergarten teams in the JV conference...all this while even scrubs like Dellavedova get calls.

2012 finals game 2 durant hack no call series tied 1-1 instead of down 2-0.

2013 finals game 6 danny green fouled by bosh on game tying 3 in ot no call.

2016 finals bush league move stepping over dray while lobbying for suspension post game 4. Weak. Game 6 phantom Curry foul trouble to force game 7.

2017 finals game 3 GSW beats fix shooting lights out from beyond the Arc. Game 4 refs double down everyone but Durant in foul trouble.

Even yday Lebron got away with 2 fouls when he had 3 in the third quarter to keep him out of foul trouble.

Its amazing to see the masses slurp all the propaganda up tbh.

speaking of propaganda, a patriots fan should know better than cite finals winning % as a determining factor in greatness

and anybody can cherry pick bad officiating over a long career:






Actually win % matters, otherwise Jordan isnt held in GOAT status its a large part of it.

so joe montana has a case as the best QB ever? it's better to lose in the conference finals than in the finals? terrible logic. titles won is itself an overrated method of judging a career. success % in the final round is even sillier, particularly when the matchups are lopsided, like lebron's cavs against the spurs in his first finals appearance at age 22. counting that season in any way as a NEGATIVE on lebron's resume, particularly given his heroics in the ECF against the favored pistons, is beyond absurd. that cavs roster was garbage

lebron's first year in miami, on the other hand? perfectly valid to criticize him. not because his team lost in the finals, but because he played like crap

the only title winning % that could conceivably matter is titles won relative to length of career

As for bad officiating, its not cherry picking when Consistent benefitting of a friendly whistle is evident with actual examples at critical junctures. Thats called corrupt officiating because bad officiating means both teams have a 50/50 chance at getting screwed, and with the number of examples to us to the naked eye and on film, youd have to be an Lbj homer to not see it. Some ppl just dont want to believe the product theyre seeing is influenced by the league.

absolute baloney to think that some shadowy figure (silver? stern before him?) is meeting clandestinely with officials to plot which teams or stars are going to be favored. that **** would go public so fast your head would be spinning like linda blair. do you have any concept of how much these guys would have to be paid under the table to keep their mouths shut FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES?! i don't think you do. i mean, how do you even go about approaching an official to make such an offer? the official would have so much blackmail power in that situation. no businessman in his right mind would even consider ruining an entire league by trying something so foolish

and i'm hardly a LBJ homer. that's as laughable as your conspiracy theory. the reality is that many people so strongly dislike him that it clouds their judgement. lebron doesn't consistently get whistles at key junctures. if that were the case, you'd actually see broad-based evidence of such produced by people with too much time on their hands
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#182 » by NWIBullsFan » Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:26 am

LordGrim wrote:Actually win % matters, otherwise Jordan isnt held in GOAT status its a large part of it.


No it doesn't, and no it isn't. Though I could go as far as "it matters a tiny bit", and "it's a small part of it".

To believe win% matters, as dice pointed out, you have to believe that lots of QBs who only played in 1 or 2 Super Bowls (and won both) are all better than Brady, simply because Brady has lost 3 times in the SB.

That's just plain silly.

Pippen is also 6/6 in the Finals, does that make him the 2nd player ever? Of course not.

Speaking of MJ, is he even close to 6/6 if Jerry Krause had teamed him up with Olden Polynice instead of Scottie? Of course not. Hell, MJ very well might not have ring #6 if Kukoc didn't keep the team in Game 7 of the EC Finals with his 3rd quarter scoring burst when MJ and Pip were struggling to score.

Jerry West is the freaking logo, even though he lost EIGHT times in the Finals. It's not his fault he kept having to face a Celtics team that had so many Hall Of Famers that they had a 1st Ballot Hall Of Famer coming off the bench!

Speaking of which, Hondo was 8/8 in the Finals, so I guess he's really the GOAT? Of course not.

No matter what team sport we're talking about, nobody wins a Championship without a great TEAM around them. Obviously basketball can be most impacted by one player, because 5 guys play at any given time, vs 9 or 11. Hockey is close, 5 players plus a goalie... if you have a Gretzky who can get you 2 or 3 goals on his own, your defense can do the rest.

Jim Kelly is known for losing 4 SB in a row, but if Scott Norwood's kick is 3 feet to the left, Kelly wins his first SB.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#183 » by NWIBullsFan » Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:57 am

RealGM Wiretap:

Pelicans Trying To Tweak How Zion Williamson Walks, Runs

That can't sound good to a Pels fan? I've heard of teams working on a rookie's shooting motion or defensive stance, but how to walk and run? Ouch.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#184 » by samwana » Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:18 pm

NWIBullsFan wrote:RealGM Wiretap:

Pelicans Trying To Tweak How Zion Williamson Walks, Runs

That can't sound good to a Pels fan? I've heard of teams working on a rookie's shooting motion or defensive stance, but how to walk and run? Ouch.


How many people were calling this before the draft? This sounds awful and a lot like Greg Oden for me, Pels fans hope that it is more Embiid than Oden. Zion will always be high maintenance and probably on minutes restriction a lot. Not good for a hyped #1 pick.

Memphis must be crazy happy they didn't get the first pick.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#185 » by dougthonus » Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:21 pm

NWIBullsFan wrote:RealGM Wiretap:

Pelicans Trying To Tweak How Zion Williamson Walks, Runs

That can't sound good to a Pels fan? I've heard of teams working on a rookie's shooting motion or defensive stance, but how to walk and run? Ouch.


Came here to post about the same thing. Just hearing this made me feel like "This guy is Greg Oden 2.0".

I hope Zion gets it worked out because he seems like a dynamic personality that would be great for the league and definitely looks like he'd be an entertaining player if he were able to play at his peak level, but I'm already nervous that will ever happen and would be super nervous if I were a Pels fan.

Would be ironic if it turned out the best move for that pick would have been to trade it when it's value was peaked.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#186 » by Red Larrivee » Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:57 pm

Greg Oden is a big stretch. Oden had three microfracture surgeries and fractured his patella in five years. A torn meniscus isn't comparable.

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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#187 » by NWIBullsFan » Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:05 pm

I don't think you can help but worry about Zion's health - the only real physical comparison is to Sir Charles, and even though he probably carried more weight compared to height, he never had any knee problems until he was in his 30s. The only positive I can come up with right now is that maybe the Pels are being uber-cautious ala Philly with Embiid and Simmons. They could just be letting him have a redshirt year and/or guaranteeing their tank, nobody can really say for sure.

As of today, can you imagine if the Bulls would have won the lottery last summer? Even though Ja would have been the perfect fit for this team, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that JR would have let Pax draft him over Zion. And we'd all be completely freaking the F out right about now. With good reason.

You may say I'm a dreamer, but what does this do to Brandon Ingram? He has undoubtedly played his way to a max deal this season, but does he want to spend the next 5 years in The Big Easy? The Pels couldn't even get AD to the 2nd round without playoff Rondo (and Niko having by far his best postseason**), does he really think they can even get that far if Zion is Oden Jr? Everyone is looking at the 2021 FA class, it's a long shot but Ingram seems like the perfect SF to plug in with the rest of our roster.

Of course, he'd have to want to come here, which seems quite unlikely right about now (and I'm an optimist). If Otto still opts out as had been expected, we'd have the cap space to do it.

**EDIT: You know how many guys went for 15/9/1/1/1 in that 2018 playoff season? Three

Niko
Bron
AD

That's one of those very obscure statlines, but kinda cool. Call me crazy, but I think this year's team would be much better if we had Niko instead of Thad... and Niko probably would have signed for about the same money.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#188 » by NWIBullsFan » Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:41 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:Greg Oden is a big stretch. Oden had three microfracture surgeries and fractured his patella in five years. A torn meniscus isn't comparable.

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No doubt, and +1.

But I've never seen a team in any sport ever say they want to tweak the way a player walks and runs. I can't imagine how one even sets out to change the way they walk and run.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#189 » by dougthonus » Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:45 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:Greg Oden is a big stretch. Oden had three microfracture surgeries and fractured his patella in five years. A torn meniscus isn't comparable.

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How many microfracture surgeries did he have before his rookie NBA season? Obviously he isn't having Greg Oden like problems yet, Oden wasn't a lost cause at 19 yet either. Zion has already suffered two reasonably significant knee injuries in about a six month time span, and the Pelicans are now talking about changing his gait and looking at kinetic changes to prevent injury.

Greg Oden is the only other player I have ever heard of doing this type of work to try and resolve his injury issues which is primary reason as to why I made the comparison.

I didn't say Zion is doomed. I'm nervous for him as a general NBA fan though and would be extremely nervous as a Pelicans fan.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#190 » by Red Larrivee » Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:13 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:Greg Oden is a big stretch. Oden had three microfracture surgeries and fractured his patella in five years. A torn meniscus isn't comparable.

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How many microfracture surgeries did he have before his rookie NBA season? Obviously he isn't having Greg Oden like problems yet, Oden wasn't a lost cause at 19 yet either. Zion has already suffered two reasonably significant knee injuries in about a six month time span, and the Pelicans are now talking about changing his gait and looking at kinetic changes to prevent injury.

Greg Oden is the only other player I have ever heard of doing this type of work to try and resolve his injury issues which is primary reason as to why I made the comparison.

I didn't say Zion is doomed. I'm nervous for him as a general NBA fan though and would be extremely nervous as a Pelicans fan.


Microfracture at any age is a pretty big deal. A knee sprain and a torn meniscus are notable injuries, but I don't think they're on the same level. Right now, I think this is more of a Blake Griffin setback than a Greg Oden one.



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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#191 » by dougthonus » Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:36 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:Microfracture at any age is a pretty big deal. A knee sprain and a torn meniscus are notable injuries, but I don't think they're on the same level. Right now, I think this is more of a Blake Griffin setback than a Greg Oden one.


Absolutely agree that microfracture is way more serious than knee sprain and meniscus tear.

I normally wouldn't be concerned about a sprained knee and meniscus. The comparison is more due to his size for his body and that they're concerned about his gait / kinetic footprint.

Injury history:
HS: Knee and foot injuries (minor / medium?)
College: Knee (medium)
Summer league: Knee (minor)
Preseason knee (medium)

Not sure if he's ever had a fully healthy season, and he has only had 30 game seasons so far not NBA length seasons.

There is a lot of reason to be concerned about his injury history.

Completely agree that he hasn't hit the major ones yet like microfracture or ACL and people shouldn't be in complete panic state over his career, but it should definitely be in "above average concern" relative to someone else with a meniscus injury and this news about kinetic training which may have been meant to be calming sets off alarm bells for me personally.

Here's a history about it, the high school stuff is a big vague, but missed a couple months with a knee and missed time his senior year with a foot. That's four knee injuries that have kept him out of playing to date over three years, who knows how bad the summer league one was because people skip that for even super minor stuff, but three of those injuries were months+ and the fourth we just don't know what it would have been like had the games meant something.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2019/10/18/20920951/zion-williamson-injury-new-orleans-pelicans-right-knee-college-duke-shoe-high-school
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#192 » by Dresden » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:40 pm

NWIBullsFan wrote:RealGM Wiretap:

Pelicans Trying To Tweak How Zion Williamson Walks, Runs

That can't sound good to a Pels fan? I've heard of teams working on a rookie's shooting motion or defensive stance, but how to walk and run? Ouch.


I thought the same thing. How can you change how somebody runs?
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#193 » by Dresden » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:45 pm

Longevity was on the minds of a lot of people when assessing Zion's worthiness to be the #1 pick. We'll see if this is an ongoing thing or not. One thing for sure- if Zion had been drafted by the Bulls, we'd already be hearing complaints about how the Bulls medical staff was treating him.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#194 » by NWIBullsFan » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:51 pm

Dresden wrote:Longevity was on the minds of a lot of people when assessing Zion's worthiness to be the #1 pick. We'll see if this is an ongoing thing or not. One thing for sure- if Zion had been drafted by the Bulls, we'd already be hearing complaints about how the Bulls medical staff was treating him.


Holy crap, I hadn't even considered that!!

I remember a few years ago seeing a "Fire GarPax" billboard somewhere in the city that was paid for by Bulls fans - if we had drafted Zion, I don't think there's any doubt that the same fans would already have a hit out on any Dr even remotely associated with the organization.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#195 » by Mech Engineer » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:54 pm

I know it is sounds scary but most of Zion's issues are bruises, sprains except for the latest meniscus injury. He and the Pelicans obviously know he needs to reduce his weight and they probably have a plan for it. I think he will be fine and it is obvious everyone is over-cautious with him right now.

The only thing with him is he needs to develop a consistent outside shot and that will give him a lot more flexibility in how much he exerts himself.
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#196 » by dice » Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:23 pm

NWIBullsFan wrote:Jerry West is the freaking logo, even though he lost EIGHT times in the Finals.

I'd take him to start a team over kobe any day of the week. yet kobe has the fistful of rings
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#197 » by GetBuLLish » Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:29 pm

I'd actually be very happy with this news if I were a Pelicans fan. A number of people, including some posters here, have noted problems with Zion's gait and movement. It should be reassuring that the Pelicans' medical staff are trying to get to the heart of Zion's issues, rather than simply clearing him as fast as possible (which is what some organizations would do).
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#198 » by dice » Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:30 pm

Mech Engineer wrote:I know it is sounds scary but most of Zion's issues are bruises, sprains except for the latest meniscus injury. He and the Pelicans obviously know he needs to reduce his weight and they probably have a plan for it. I think he will be fine and it is obvious everyone is over-cautious with him right now.

it'll be interesting to see how the weight thing plays out. zion is set for life financially already, but will have a huge microscope on him. as contrasted with a guy like mike sweetney, who was playing for his livelihood (relatively speaking) yet still never beat the weight issues
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#199 » by NWIBullsFan » Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:42 pm

[instagram][/instagram]
dice wrote:
NWIBullsFan wrote:Jerry West is the freaking logo, even though he lost EIGHT times in the Finals.

I'd take him to start a team over kobe any day of the week. yet kobe has the fistful of rings


I mean no offense at all when I say this, but: Duh! :wink:
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Re: Around The NBA: 2019-20 Season #2 

Post#200 » by DASMACKDOWN » Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:32 am

Does anyone else think Sacramento's situation is similar if not worse than ours? Concerning ownership and management? Divac and company just seem to run a disfunction show every year.

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