2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread

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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#101 » by Crunch 99 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:02 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:It sucks that he re-aggravated his injury because the longer he's out, the less time he has to gel with the team and make this whole thing work. Having said that, injury concerns were a well-known issue with Conley prior to the trade, so it's not like it's a total surprise that it happened. This is slowly turning into the worst-case scenario of the trade outcome. Maybe Exum will get some burn.


Yes, and even though Conley has been shooting poorly, I think I've seen stats indicating that we are generally better off with him on the court than off the court. I was hoping that during his most recent time off the court with injury that he saw some things from the bench that would help him gel more going forward. Conley's six assists in just 19 minutes of action in his one game back was encouraging, though he had another poor shooting night.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#102 » by Inigo Montoya » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:16 pm

Crunch 99 wrote:Yes, and even though Conley has been shooting poorly, I think I've seen stats indicating that we are generally better off with him on the court than off the court.

That's more of an indictment of the bench because Conley has been awful so far.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#103 » by Crunch 99 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:31 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
Crunch 99 wrote:Yes, and even though Conley has been shooting poorly, I think I've seen stats indicating that we are generally better off with him on the court than off the court.

That's more of an indictment of the bench because Conley has been awful so far.


Yes.

Speaking of bench, I think part of the problem is that we have too many guys that aren't good outside shooters. Davis has zero outside range. And Both Mudiay and Exum are poor three point shooters with no gravity. Both of them want to put the ball on the floor and try to get to the rim, though Mudiay has hit some mid range shots. Nonetheless, it seems like it is relatively easy for teams to game plan for guys that primarily want to get to the rim. Even Jeff Green, who is willing to take those open three point shots, is a pretty mediocre three point shooter, especially in today's NBA, where so many guys can hit that shot at much higher percentages.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#104 » by KqWIN » Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:48 pm

Whichever starter plays with the bench, their +/- goes to die.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#105 » by stitches » Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:26 pm

KqWIN wrote:Whichever starter plays with the bench, their +/- goes to die.

I've been thinking... if the bench dies with whoever starter plays with them... then... just let them die alone, maximize the minutes the starters play together... do like... hockey substitutions... 5 in 5 out. And hope that at least them playing together for many minutes will create some chemistry and they will know who does what best...
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#106 » by babyjax13 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:55 pm

stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Whichever starter plays with the bench, their +/- goes to die.

I've been thinking... if the bench dies with whoever starter plays with them... then... just let them die alone, maximize the minutes the starters play together... do like... hockey substitutions... 5 in 5 out. And hope that at least them playing together for many minutes will create some chemistry and they will know who does what best...


I think we tried that for a bit and it was just awful - compounding the weakness of the bench to an unreasonable degree. We need one more decent player on the bench.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#107 » by KqWIN » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:23 pm

stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Whichever starter plays with the bench, their +/- goes to die.

I've been thinking... if the bench dies with whoever starter plays with them... then... just let them die alone, maximize the minutes the starters play together... do like... hockey substitutions... 5 in 5 out. And hope that at least them playing together for many minutes will create some chemistry and they will know who does what best...


I think one of the reasons why Donovan struggled so badly with the stagger is the he felt the need to takeover in a big way with the bench. Joe had the same issue. This is a bad mix with a lot of our bench players who are also ball stoppers and bad defenders. The starting lineup has its issues with ball movement, but there's enough spacing and talent to make it work anyways. That just falls apart with the bench.

Maybe it's just best to stagger Royce because he's the only player on this team who doesn't need/want the ball and shots. That puts you at the mercy of Mudiay running the show, but it's already really bad and it keeps Mitchell from drowning in the second unit.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#108 » by KqWIN » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:16 pm

More bored at work stats!

Rudy Gobert defense versus perimeter players (PG, SG, SF):

FG: 105/275 (38.2%)
3FG: 10/47 (21.3%)
TS%: 41.4%
AST: 47
TOV: 29
Shooting Fouls: 13


Graph:

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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#109 » by TNJazz » Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:22 pm

Does anyone know the story behind Exum and his banishment to the bench and dnpcd's? Is he still hurt or have they discovered he isn't NBA material? It seems strange that they have invested so much into him and he can't get into the game when the starter is out with an injury. Not a huge fan, just curious to learn why he so far down the depth chart.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#110 » by Inigo Montoya » Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:38 pm

That's a good question. I remained mostly mum on the subject because I assumed the Jazz are bringing him along slowly after the injury and that he's on minute restriction, but if he's not playing at all then this whole thing is puzzling. He can surely help the defense and create some easy basket for Gobert with his lobs, at the very least, and minutes have opened up with Conley being out.

I still maintain that he doesn't fit Snyder's system so I'm not that surprised.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#111 » by KqWIN » Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:06 pm

The story is pretty simple to me. He isn't good enough to play. Mudiay is better than him. When Exum did get a chance, he played poorly. Initially it looked like they were keeping him to short stints when he did play, but now it's very obvious that he's not playing because he's not good enough.

If his name wasn't Dante Exum, there really wouldn't be any mystery about this. Dante is my favorite player, but he's also been unable to hold down a real rotation spot for more than a couple months at a time unless you count his token rookie minutes. You can blame that on injuries or whatever else you want, but it's just the truth. There should be no mystery why a borderline rotation player coming off another major injury is not playing.

Personally, I'd give him minutes over Niang or Green. But I'd also give anyone and everyone a shot at a bench rotation with the way they're playing.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#112 » by KqWIN » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:50 pm

The two top lineups that have played more than 180 minutes belong to the Jazz:

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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#113 » by Crunch 99 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:07 pm

Random stats: Over the last 11 games mostly without Conley (Conley appeared in one of the 11 games), Ingles is averaging 6.1 assists per 36 mins, Mitchell 5.6 assists per 36 mins and Mudiay 5 assists per 36 mins. For the last 5 games, Mitchell is averaging 7.2 assists per 36 mins. Conley is averaging 5.7 assists per 36 mins.

It is frustrating to me that besides shooting the ball poorly, for $32 million dollars, Conley doesn't generate more assists per 36 mins than a couple of non point guards on the team and barely more than our $1.7 million dollar backup point guard.

There is still time for Conley to get a better game going though.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#114 » by Inigo Montoya » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:33 pm

Conley was never racking up the assists. He's at 6.3 assists per 36 for his career, and had always hovered at the range of 5-7 assists per 36, so to me this is not an issue. We also know that our systems neuters traditional point guards and drive down their assists. Just look at Rubio as the latest example.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#115 » by Tom349 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:36 pm

Not to mention Quins system doesn't exactly allow for a PG to get high number assist on a game to game basis. Conley was actually taking care of the ball better than any other PG we've had under Quin since he adjusted to the system and players.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#116 » by Crunch 99 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:57 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:Conley was never racking up the assists. He's at 6.3 assists per 36 for his career, and had always hovered at the range of 5-7 assists per 36, so to me this is not an issue. We also know that our systems neuters traditional point guards and drive down their assists. Just look at Rubio as the latest example.


Well it's just one more aspect where it looks like Conley is no better than Mitchell at point guard, and maybe worse if Mitchell is able to sustain his recent small 5 game sample of 7.2 ast/36 min rate. Conley takes care of the ball better as point guard though.

Hindsight is great, but right now it looks like we not only spent $32 million dollars on a point guard that is playing like a backup point guard, but maybe point guard wasn't our biggest position of need. For the last 11 games starting as PG without Conley (except one game), Mitchell is averaging 26.6 ppg, 50.2%/32.9%, 5.5 apg and 4.4 rebs, and he is still adjusting to point guard position and will probably continue to get better at it.

I think there used to be some worry that the team could be asking young DM to do too much if we relied on him to be the primary scorer and full time starting point guard, but he is handling his added new responsibility extremely well so far.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#117 » by Inigo Montoya » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:12 pm

Crunch 99 wrote:Hindsight is great, but right now it looks like we not only spent $32 million dollars on a point guard that is playing like a backup point guard, but maybe point guard wasn't our biggest position of need. For the last 11 games starting as PG without Conley (except one game), Mitchell is averaging 26.6 ppg, 50.2%/32.9%, 5.5 apg and 4.4 rebs, and he is still adjusting to point guard and will probably continue to get better at it.

I don't think it's hindsight. Some people hated the trade from the beginning, including since before it happened (there were rumors of it going down a season prior), and we also had a sample size of how DM functioned at PG when Rubio was out, and he performed very well. The evidence was always there that DM could play well at PG and that we shouldn't spend 32M per year on a small, aging, somewhat injury prone PG that wouldn't take this team over the hump even if he didn't play this badly.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#118 » by ForeverRDjazz » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:52 am

See Favor played 35 minutes scored 12 2 ast and 16 boards and helped beat the Rockets. Thank you Favors. Still helping the jazz.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#119 » by ForeverRDjazz » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:01 am

Jazz are only 3 games out of second seed and we're just starting to play good. Won 8 out of the last 10. My hopes of moving up in the standing are much higher after watching the last couple games. Take your time Conley coming back.
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Re: 2019 Utah Jazz Regular Season Thread 

Post#120 » by KqWIN » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:16 am

We will be favored in the next 15 games. This is the time to strike. Get all our you anti jinx energy ready!

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