Game 34: Los Angeles Clippers (23-10) vs. Utah Jazz (19-12) - 10:30 PM ET

[50CalClips]

Mid-range shots should go to Kawhi. George should be attacking the rim or shooting 3's.

Lou Williams is a sub-par shooter. He needs to facilitate more often rather than taking jumpshots.

This should just read: we should trade Lou Williams, because you can't actually expect a 33 year old who has played a certain way all his career to make a drastic change. Lou is a scorer, he creates for others due to the threat of his scoring, it wouldn't work to try and make him into some sort of pass first-ish type guy, you would just get something unpleasant. His assist rate the past two seasons have been very good for the type of player he is.

I don't believe in controlling shot attempt areas of stars / primary scorers when they are already efficient. If they are not efficient, then yes, try and adjust them, if they are efficient, why are you trying to tweak things? George is very efficient, but George will have bad shooting games, but including this game he has a TS% of 54% of greater in 15/23 games and 58% or greater in 13/23 games, that's 65% and 57% of the time respectively.

Last season it was 47/77 games for 54% TS and 41/77 games for 58% TS, so 61% and 53% of the time respectively, so he's been better this season so far than he was last season. So it always depends on who / what exactly we are comparing to. His consistency in efficiency is not actually a problem. These bad shooting games are expected and will happen no matter what.

Depends on what we can get in return, but trading Lou Williams could be an option.

But this is not like 'asking a leopard to change his spots' kind of thing... it's simply Shot Selection. Any player at any point in their career can improve in that area. Don't take shots that you're least efficient at!

And with Lou, specifically, it's not as if he can't be a passer... it's more that he's not as willing a passer as he could be. It's 'fixable', if you will. It's a matter of choice, not ability/inability. But I fear that Glen Rivers doesn't address this/doesn't see it as an issue, so nothing changes/improves in that regard. Lou Will just gets the Green Light, inefficiency and all.

Paul George is not that big an issue, but it's that I have higher expectations for him. Some of these Turnovers, you can see coming miles away. It comes down to Shot Selection as well... it's like he thinks that he's supposed to force 'bad shot' attempts (He's a Kobe admirer... but we don't need him to be Kobe). Again, I fear that Glen Rivers just allows it. George is a capable passer TOO! He's a smooth dude, he could be kicking to 3-shooters in half of his drives, no problem (esp. when he's doubled/tripled).

Ultimately, I see that we could be a much more fluid team. And it seems like that's not being fostered. It's... Lou Will. Kawhi. Paul George. Three INDIVIDUAL players trying to do 'their thing' on a team. And Glen is happy with that.

[50CalClips]

I question whether Kawhi has actually establish himself as the Alpha Dog in the locker room/practice court...

I don't believe that Glen Rivers has ever stated/admitted that this is "Kawhi's team"...

I wonder if there's underlying issues between Lou Will and Kawhi. How much do they speak with one another? (Paul George seems like an amenable guy, so wouldn't have much of a problem adjusting to things)

[NippySudz]

I question whether Kawhi has actually establish himself as the Alpha Dog in the locker room/practice court...

I don't believe that Glen Rivers has ever stated/admitted that this is "Kawhi's team"...

I wonder if there's underlying issues between Lou Will and Kawhi. How much do they speak with one another? (Paul George seems like an amenable guy, so wouldn't have much of a problem adjusting to things)

I doubt Kawhi has, I mean its pretty clear its his team. The only one who probably didn't get the message was PG.

Everyone else knows its Kawhi's team.

Doc alluded he had a talk with the team before kawhi and pg joined and basically came down to do you want to win because winning involves sacrafice and Lou says he wants to win. These guys knows their role. I'm not sure PG knows his.

[esqtvd]

And with Lou, specifically, it's not as if he can't be a passer... it's more that he's not as willing a passer as he could be. It's 'fixable', if you will. It's a matter of choice, not ability/inability. But I fear that Glen Rivers doesn't address this/doesn't see it as an issue, so nothing changes/improves in that regard. Lou Will just gets the Green Light, inefficiency and all.

Paul George is not that big an issue, but it's that I have higher expectations for him. Some of these Turnovers, you can see coming miles away. It comes down to Shot Selection as well... it's like he thinks that he's supposed to force 'bad shot' attempts (He's a Kobe admirer... but we don't need him to be Kobe). Again, I fear that Glen Rivers just allows it. George is a capable passer TOO! He's a smooth dude, he could be kicking to 3-shooters in half of his drives, no problem (esp. when he's doubled/tripled).

Ultimately, I see that we could be a much more fluid team. And it seems like that's not being fostered. It's... Lou Will. Kawhi. Paul George. Three INDIVIDUAL players trying to do 'their thing' on a team. And Glen is happy with that.

I don't think Doc is happy about the freelancing and isos AT ALL. He lets it slip out during the postgames when we didn't play well that they weren't running the sets. But now is not the time to go to war against your own team. You let them sink or swim doing things their way, until what needs to be done becomes obvious to all.

No coach in the 21st century NBA coaches like it's Hoosiers. You can only lead your horses to water...


As for Lou, he IS adjusting. His 6.3 apg is a career high and his 41%/35% is only a tad off from last year's 42%/36%. At the moment he's in a slump, but going from 1st option to 3rd or 4th option [Trezz also figures in here] will understandably throw you off for awhile.

As for PG, a little bit of worry, but nothing serious yet. I still hate the turnovers, though. As for Kawhi, some nights he doesn't seem engaged. But I'd like to see someone outside the Big Four step up occasionally and beast up.

[MartinToVaught]

But now is not the time to go to war against your own team. You let them sink or swim doing things their way, until what needs to be done becomes obvious to all.

Actually coaching the team isn't "going to war against your own team" - it's Doc's job.

[esqtvd]

But now is not the time to go to war against your own team. You let them sink or swim doing things their way, until what needs to be done becomes obvious to all.

Actually coaching the team isn't "going to war against your own team" - it's Doc's job.

well I'm sure you know about coaching in the NBA better than Doc

but in the meantime, the point is that Doc is quite aware of what's going on

he is not just rolling the ball out there like VDN did
or trying to program his players like Dunleavy did

[clipperlover]

Baffles me that we are going to chalk these losses up to "just a bad night". Since the 6 game road trip, this team has played .500 ball (actually 3-4 over the last 7). People were overly excited for the Lakers match-up. The recent losses to the Rockets and Jazz are a concern. Those losses mean that we are now behind in the season series to both of those teams. Now, we have to beat each of those teams on their home courts to even the season series and push to the conference record for the tiebreaker (which both teams currently have over us as well). With the tight race in the West, you can't be getting behind in the tiebreakers and you certainly shouldn't be doing it on your home court.

There are 5 other legitimate contenders in the West. We are up in the season series on one (Lakers). Down in the season series to two (Rockets, Jazz), we have 2 games remaining against one (Mavs, 1st of 3) and we have not played the other (Nuggets, 3 games).

We can't make excuses about who is/is not playing each night. We have had players go down in the playoffs before, so we need to know we can count on the other players on this roster. Don't look now, but the minutes are starting to increase for Kawhi and PG and the results aren't stellar. In his first 20 games, Kawhi played 34 or more minutes in 5 games. We were 4-1 in those games. Since then, Kawhi has played 34 or more minutes in 3 of the last 4 and we are 1-2 in those 3 games. PG played 34 or more in 3 of his 1st 18. We were 3-0 in those games. He has played 34 or more in 4 of his last 5 and we are 1-3 in those games.

We saw it in the Lob City days. Doc would give a ton of minutes to the top guys and not work to improve the bench play. Then, when we hit the playoffs and the stars went down, we had no one to rely on.

[esqtvd]

Baffles me that we are going to chalk these losses up to "just a bad night". Since the 6 game road trip, this team has played .500 ball (actually 3-4 over the last 7). People were overly excited for the Lakers match-up. The recent losses to the Rockets and Jazz are a concern. Those losses mean that we are now behind in the season series to both of those teams. Now, we have to beat each of those teams on their home courts to even the season series and push to the conference record for the tiebreaker (which both teams currently have over us as well). With the tight race in the West, you can't be getting behind in the tiebreakers and you certainly shouldn't be doing it on your home court.

There are 5 other legitimate contenders in the West. We are up in the season series on one (Lakers). Down in the season series to two (Rockets, Jazz), we have 2 games remaining against one (Mavs, 1st of 3) and we have not played the other (Nuggets, 3 games).

We can't make excuses about who is/is not playing each night. We have had players go down in the playoffs before, so we need to know we can count on the other players on this roster. Don't look now, but the minutes are starting to increase for Kawhi and PG and the results aren't stellar. In his first 20 games, Kawhi played 34 or more minutes in 5 games. We were 4-1 in those games. Since then, Kawhi has played 34 or more minutes in 3 of the last 4 and we are 1-2 in those 3 games. PG played 34 or more in 3 of his 1st 18. We were 3-0 in those games. He has played 34 or more in 4 of his last 5 and we are 1-3 in those games.

We saw it in the Lob City days. Doc would give a ton of minutes to the top guys and not work to improve the bench play. Then, when we hit the playoffs and the stars went down, we had no one to rely on.

that playing our lesser players more minutes will result in more wins is counterintuitive

[clipperlover]

Baffles me that we are going to chalk these losses up to "just a bad night". Since the 6 game road trip, this team has played .500 ball (actually 3-4 over the last 7). People were overly excited for the Lakers match-up. The recent losses to the Rockets and Jazz are a concern. Those losses mean that we are now behind in the season series to both of those teams. Now, we have to beat each of those teams on their home courts to even the season series and push to the conference record for the tiebreaker (which both teams currently have over us as well). With the tight race in the West, you can't be getting behind in the tiebreakers and you certainly shouldn't be doing it on your home court.

There are 5 other legitimate contenders in the West. We are up in the season series on one (Lakers). Down in the season series to two (Rockets, Jazz), we have 2 games remaining against one (Mavs, 1st of 3) and we have not played the other (Nuggets, 3 games).

We can't make excuses about who is/is not playing each night. We have had players go down in the playoffs before, so we need to know we can count on the other players on this roster. Don't look now, but the minutes are starting to increase for Kawhi and PG and the results aren't stellar. In his first 20 games, Kawhi played 34 or more minutes in 5 games. We were 4-1 in those games. Since then, Kawhi has played 34 or more minutes in 3 of the last 4 and we are 1-2 in those 3 games. PG played 34 or more in 3 of his 1st 18. We were 3-0 in those games. He has played 34 or more in 4 of his last 5 and we are 1-3 in those games.

We saw it in the Lob City days. Doc would give a ton of minutes to the top guys and not work to improve the bench play. Then, when we hit the playoffs and the stars went down, we had no one to rely on.

that playing our lesser players more minutes will result in more wins is counterintuitive

Playing Kawhi and PG more minutes isn't equating into more wins. We can't have this team just be Kawhi, PG, Lou, PB and Trez. We need solid, consistent contribution across the roster. If those core guys are coasting during some regular season game because it is just "pre-season", then Doc needs to take them out and give those minutes to the bench guys. Those core guys may be in foul trouble or be injured down the road, so we have to know we can count on these bench guys. If they can't contribute, then it is time to move them for a different supporting cast.

[esqtvd]

Baffles me that we are going to chalk these losses up to "just a bad night". Since the 6 game road trip, this team has played .500 ball (actually 3-4 over the last 7). People were overly excited for the Lakers match-up. The recent losses to the Rockets and Jazz are a concern. Those losses mean that we are now behind in the season series to both of those teams. Now, we have to beat each of those teams on their home courts to even the season series and push to the conference record for the tiebreaker (which both teams currently have over us as well). With the tight race in the West, you can't be getting behind in the tiebreakers and you certainly shouldn't be doing it on your home court.

There are 5 other legitimate contenders in the West. We are up in the season series on one (Lakers). Down in the season series to two (Rockets, Jazz), we have 2 games remaining against one (Mavs, 1st of 3) and we have not played the other (Nuggets, 3 games).

We can't make excuses about who is/is not playing each night. We have had players go down in the playoffs before, so we need to know we can count on the other players on this roster. Don't look now, but the minutes are starting to increase for Kawhi and PG and the results aren't stellar. In his first 20 games, Kawhi played 34 or more minutes in 5 games. We were 4-1 in those games. Since then, Kawhi has played 34 or more minutes in 3 of the last 4 and we are 1-2 in those 3 games. PG played 34 or more in 3 of his 1st 18. We were 3-0 in those games. He has played 34 or more in 4 of his last 5 and we are 1-3 in those games.

We saw it in the Lob City days. Doc would give a ton of minutes to the top guys and not work to improve the bench play. Then, when we hit the playoffs and the stars went down, we had no one to rely on.

that playing our lesser players more minutes will result in more wins is counterintuitive

Playing Kawhi and PG more minutes isn't equating into more wins. We can't have this team just be Kawhi, PG, Lou, PB and Trez. We need solid, consistent contribution across the roster. If those core guys are coasting during some regular season game because it is just "pre-season", then Doc needs to take them out and give those minutes to the bench guys. Those core guys may be in foul trouble or be injured down the road, so we have to know we can count on these bench guys. If they can't contribute, then it is time to move them for a different supporting cast.

Playing Harkless and Zubac more and Kawhi and Trezz less will result in more wins?

[NippySudz]

after watching laker film room, I can see why they prefer Trez and not to give zu a lot of minutes.

With Trez, they can switch pretty much all their actions, where as zubac they cannot.

I can see why you wouldn't want to play Zu that much against the lakers, but I'm curious how will they go with matchups that have to do with size too. Like the bucks. Do you want to switch against them? Time will tell.

[clipperlover]

that playing our lesser players more minutes will result in more wins is counterintuitive

Playing Kawhi and PG more minutes isn't equating into more wins. We can't have this team just be Kawhi, PG, Lou, PB and Trez. We need solid, consistent contribution across the roster. If those core guys are coasting during some regular season game because it is just "pre-season", then Doc needs to take them out and give those minutes to the bench guys. Those core guys may be in foul trouble or be injured down the road, so we have to know we can count on these bench guys. If they can't contribute, then it is time to move them for a different supporting cast.

Playing Harkless and Zubac more and Kawhi and Trezz less will result in more wins?

Harkless was a starter on a team that went to the WCF last year and Zubac is our only true big man. These guys need to be contributing or moved. We have seen this for years. Doc panics when the non-stars struggle a little and then loads his top guys up with minutes. The only player ever given a long leash was Silver Spoon.

Zu playing 20 or more minutes Clips are 7-2 (0-2 over 24 minutes)
Zu playing less than 15:30 Clips are 3-6 (moves to 6-6 when he plays under 16)
We are 10-2 when Zu scores in double digits while we are 13-9 when he score less than 10 (4-1 when he gets a double double).
We are 10-3 when he gets 5 or more defensive rebounds.
We are 12-2 when he gets 3 or more offensive rebounds.

We are 2-6 when Harrell plays 32 or more minutes.
We are 9-7 when Harrell gets 5 or more defensive rebounds. (I find this very odd).
We are 15-3 when Harrell gets 3 or more offensive rebounds.

I would really like to see some line-ups where Zu and Harrell are on the court together.

[esqtvd]

Playing Kawhi and PG more minutes isn't equating into more wins. We can't have this team just be Kawhi, PG, Lou, PB and Trez. We need solid, consistent contribution across the roster. If those core guys are coasting during some regular season game because it is just "pre-season", then Doc needs to take them out and give those minutes to the bench guys. Those core guys may be in foul trouble or be injured down the road, so we have to know we can count on these bench guys. If they can't contribute, then it is time to move them for a different supporting cast.

Playing Harkless and Zubac more and Kawhi and Trezz less will result in more wins?

Harkless was a starter on a team that went to the WCF last year and Zubac is our only true big man. These guys need to be contributing or moved. We have seen this for years. Doc panics when the non-stars struggle a little and then loads his top guys up with minutes. The only player ever given a long leash was Silver Spoon.

Zu playing 20 or more minutes Clips are 7-2 (0-2 over 24 minutes)
Zu playing less than 15:30 Clips are 3-6 (moves to 6-6 when he plays under 16)
We are 10-2 when Zu scores in double digits while we are 13-9 when he score less than 10 (4-1 when he gets a double double).
We are 10-3 when he gets 5 or more defensive rebounds.
We are 12-2 when he gets 3 or more offensive rebounds.

We are 2-6 when Harrell plays 32 or more minutes.
We are 9-7 when Harrell gets 5 or more defensive rebounds. (I find this very odd).
We are 15-3 when Harrell gets 3 or more offensive rebounds.

I would really like to see some line-ups where Zu and Harrell are on the court together.

Doc has flirted with the Harrell-Zu lineup and has mentioned he wants to look at it as a secret weapon for the playoffs. I'm skeptical since each has the shooting range of a frog's tongue. Twin Towers has NEVER worked in the NBA. All it does it clog the lane for your penetrators. Zu in particular gets many or most of his points off dish-offs, not post-ups. You need the room down there.


The minutes equation is effect, not cause. Zubac gets more minutes when he's playing well and we're winning; Trezz has to play more when we're struggling. It's like saying the Dodgers are 40-4 when Bellinger hits 2 or more home runs. Obviously the solution is for Bellinger to hit more home runs.

BTW, we're already 4th in rebounding in the NBA, and 2nd on the offensive glass. It's not been a problem this year.
https://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=OREB_PCT&dir=-1

As for the Silver Spoon, actually Harkless' plus/minus is near the very bottom on the Clippers and until recently, he was getting far more minutes than his numbers justified. In our last 3 losses, he scored a combined 4 points, including 2 shutouts. The OKC loss was particularly galling--4 points and 2 rebounds in 25 minutes. I don't care what you're doing defensively--that's not cutting it.

[esqtvd]

we can ignore this loss

everybody had a touch of the flu, esp Trezz, who missed the next game

https://theathletic.com/1493563/2019/12/29/clippers-have-few-weaknesses-but-montrezl-harrells-illness-underlines-a-potential-need/


we just can't get by without a full-on Trezz

A fever is fleeting, but the flu-like symptoms spreading through the Clippers locker room on Saturday might have revealed a potential bug in their long-term health. George and Leonard are unlikely to often shoot a combined 12-for-44, as they did against the Jazz, but Harrell’s absence underscored what might be a need as the season proceeds.

As complete a team as they feature, as many options as Rivers has to deploy, the Clippers are a little thin up front. And the impact they felt from Harrell’s absence served to drive home the point.

It’s a stretch to call it a Clippers weakness. They are 12-4 in games in which George and Leonard both play, and it would be an overreaction to use Saturday’s game as proof they need another body up front.

But injuries and illnesses and foul trouble come around, and the impact of Harrell’s one-game absence makes a strong case the Clippers could use some backup up front.

Even with starting center Ivica Zubac playing one of his best games — 15 points and 12 rebounds in a season-high 27:46 — the Clippers were a different team without Harrell. And how could they not be?

Harrell is averaging career highs with 19 points, 7.5 rebounds and 29.2 minutes, and there’s a case to be made he’s as strong a contender as teammate and three-time winner Lou Williams for the NBA’s Sixth Man of the Year Award.

Against Utah, the Clippers missed him “a lot,” guard Patrick Beverley said.

“Just his ability to put pressure on. … Whatever unit’s in there, his ability to switch down the line in pick-and-roll, of course his ability to put the ball in the hole,” Beverley said. “That was all missed, and of course his energy.”

Energy was a postgame buzzword among the Clippers — specifically, the way they lacked it and the boost of it they get from Harrell. Leonard mentioned it. George, too.