WCJ or Lauri

[MeloRoseNoah]

Lauri got his first unassisted 3 today I think lol

Nobody care about the production of the next Channing Frye.

Now, that Karl Malone Jr production tonight is just delicious. Some more of that please.

He doesn't deserve the moniker Capitan Ivan Drago. He's too soft to be the Russian killer. His soft game meaning shooting three pointers without contributing anything else to the team is more fitting of a Channing Frye comparison.

[Swuul]

I guarantee you that after Lauri went off for 35 points on 13/25 shooting, no one said "stop that" to him.

Ummm... but that is exactly what happened. He together with the whole team, was told after the first match to stop personal glory hunting, and that all should start to start playing winning basketball according to the Bulls system. There wasn't much glory in the first match to be had, so one can only wonder whome the coaches were refering to...

[coldfish]

I guarantee you that after Lauri went off for 35 points on 13/25 shooting, no one said "stop that" to him.

Ummm... but that is exactly what happened. He together with the whole team, was told after the first match to stop personal glory hunting, and that all should start to start playing winning basketball according to the Bulls system. There wasn't much glory in the first match to be had, so one can only wonder whome the coaches were refering to...

Lauri didn't take bad shots in the first game. He was just driving, which is certainly part of the offense. The Bulls have *publicly* said that's what they want and Lavine has backed it up with his "layups and threes" diatribe.

I wonder if Lauri has a communication problem. Maybe his english is making it so that he doesn't understand the coaches.

Its certainly not all on him. If the coaches aren't happy about his decision making and they haven't communicated it to him clearly, then shame on them. I have commented in the past that I think one of Boylen's biggest issues is communication with players so that might play into it.

[Jiipee84]

GarPax better trade Lauri and so fast as ever possible.
This thread is turning an insult of Lauri Markkanen so let him go right now.

It's better to everyone ( Sato, Zach, Dunn,Wendell, Thad and whole Bulls team ) Lauri leaves from Bulls before 2020 NBA draft.
This is getting pathetic so it's better stop right here.

Lets allow Lauri found his NBA happiness somewhere else.
Bulls doesn't deserve Lauri Markkanen anymore.

[TallDude]

I guess if Lauri did care about what this board is talking he might go? He can if he choose. I guess it does not matter to him what amateurs think including me. But here is a lot of smart people who seems to know some. If you are born in states u are not automatic basketball genious Lauri is still focusing in future. Nobody who follows basketball in Finland have almost same opinion 1. Lavine can be really bad for team or with right coach he would be really good 2. Boylen is bad for Lauri and for team 3. Lauri is promising but really just learning and need few seasons to perhaps dominate a bit. I have said before that eventually Lauri is good enough to shoot 3`s over 40% when healthy. I bet he will hit 3`s age 25 or so easily 40-43% hole

[WICKED17]

Utterly stunned at the poll results. Even factoring in Lauri’s terrible start to the season and it’s obvious affect on the poll results.
Carter is the very first player I want moved, ideally in a big consolidation trade for a legit core piece.

[WICKED17]

In September this would have been a ridiculous question. Now, er, not so much. I abstain until May.

Edit: Gun to head, forced to chose today, I take WCJ pretty easily. He’ll never have the ceiling of which Lauri is capable offensively, but he’s a solid two way starting quality big who fits the modern NBA. And he’s never shown a lengthy and inexplicable stretch of passive awfulness that Lauri showed this season.

I don’t see Carter as a two way C. His defense though quite good is over rated on this board, but clearly it’s his lack of O ability, that strains the term two way being applied to him. If he is and I agree the term can be applied to him it’s only applicable if the requirement bar is set low, too low.

[WICKED17]

Not sure why you'd want to trade either.

Obviously Lauri is in worse form, but he's getting better again. They're both good players that compliment each other.

I don’t dislike either player. I’m not sure why we wouldn’t want to deal both.

[Dez]

In September this would have been a ridiculous question. Now, er, not so much. I abstain until May.

Edit: Gun to head, forced to chose today, I take WCJ pretty easily. He’ll never have the ceiling of which Lauri is capable offensively, but he’s a solid two way starting quality big who fits the modern NBA. And he’s never shown a lengthy and inexplicable stretch of passive awfulness that Lauri showed this season.

I don’t see Carter as a two way C. His defense though quite good is over rated on this board, but clearly it’s his lack of O ability, that strains the term two way being applied to him. If he is and I agree the term can be applied to him it’s only applicable if the requirement bar is set low, too low.

How exactly is his defense overrated?

[mtron32]

In September this would have been a ridiculous question. Now, er, not so much. I abstain until May.

Edit: Gun to head, forced to chose today, I take WCJ pretty easily. He’ll never have the ceiling of which Lauri is capable offensively, but he’s a solid two way starting quality big who fits the modern NBA. And he’s never shown a lengthy and inexplicable stretch of passive awfulness that Lauri showed this season.

I don’t see Carter as a two way C. His defense though quite good is over rated on this board, but clearly it’s his lack of O ability, that strains the term two way being applied to him. If he is and I agree the term can be applied to him it’s only applicable if the requirement bar is set low, too low.

How exactly is his defense overrated?

Him being as short as he is weakens him against big body centers and he has the tendency to pick up really stupid fouls every game. Dude needs to tighten up his defensive game and stop grimacing or smirking whenever that whistle blows.

[Dez]

I don’t see Carter as a two way C. His defense though quite good is over rated on this board, but clearly it’s his lack of O ability, that strains the term two way being applied to him. If he is and I agree the term can be applied to him it’s only applicable if the requirement bar is set low, too low.

How exactly is his defense overrated?

Him being as short as he is weakens him against big body centers and he has the tendency to pick up really stupid fouls every game. Dude needs to tighten up his defensive game and stop grimacing or smirking whenever that whistle blows.

He fared just fine against the length of Gobert and has had some excellent games against Drummond, this supposed weakness about his size is overstated and an exaggeration.

He does commit some silly fouls but he also gets called for some absolutely ridiculous calls.

He's been excellent defensively and that's even more impressive when you take into account he's 20 years old.

[mtron32]

How exactly is his defense overrated?

Him being as short as he is weakens him against big body centers and he has the tendency to pick up really stupid fouls every game. Dude needs to tighten up his defensive game and stop grimacing or smirking whenever that whistle blows.

He fared just fine against the length of Gobert and has had some excellent games against Drummond, this supposed weakness about his size is overstated and an exaggeration.

He does commit some silly fouls but he also gets called for some absolutely ridiculous calls.

He's been excellent defensively and that's even more impressive when you take into account he's 20 years old.

Any time he faces a lengthy front court he gets exposed.

[Dez]

Him being as short as he is weakens him against big body centers and he has the tendency to pick up really stupid fouls every game. Dude needs to tighten up his defensive game and stop grimacing or smirking whenever that whistle blows.

He fared just fine against the length of Gobert and has had some excellent games against Drummond, this supposed weakness about his size is overstated and an exaggeration.

He does commit some silly fouls but he also gets called for some absolutely ridiculous calls.

He's been excellent defensively and that's even more impressive when you take into account he's 20 years old.

Any time he faces a lengthy front court he gets exposed.

He literally just had 18/13/4 against Gobert yesterday.

[WICKED17]

In September this would have been a ridiculous question. Now, er, not so much. I abstain until May.

Edit: Gun to head, forced to chose today, I take WCJ pretty easily. He’ll never have the ceiling of which Lauri is capable offensively, but he’s a solid two way starting quality big who fits the modern NBA. And he’s never shown a lengthy and inexplicable stretch of passive awfulness that Lauri showed this season.

I don’t see Carter as a two way C. His defense though quite good is over rated on this board, but clearly it’s his lack of O ability, that strains the term two way being applied to him. If he is and I agree the term can be applied to him it’s only applicable if the requirement bar is set low, too low.

How exactly is his defense overrated?[/quote

Shot blocking and foul prone, are the big deficiencies. With the standard though not unusual sprinkling of at minimum, mild fan over rating of their own players.

[Dez]

I don’t see Carter as a two way C. His defense though quite good is over rated on this board, but clearly it’s his lack of O ability, that strains the term two way being applied to him. If he is and I agree the term can be applied to him it’s only applicable if the requirement bar is set low, too low.

How exactly is his defense overrated?[/quote

Shot blocking and foul prone, are the big deficiencies. With the standard though not unusual sprinkling of at minimum, mild fan over rating of their own players.

He's 20 years old and anchoring the Bulls defense and doing a damn good job, you're actually underrating the job he's doing.

[WICKED17]

I think this is quietly the reason people don’t like Carter. And no matter how many times I post height doesn’t matter nearly as much as standing reach and carters standing reach is perfectly average for an nba center, people can’t get over it.

His standing reach won't do squat when someone like Valanciunas or Vucevic backs him down and manhanles him for the and-1. He can't really guard true NBA bigs, which wouldn't be such a problem if he could balance out that flaw with quick feet on the perimeter or a diverse scoring ability. But he can't, not at this point at least.

Wendell has a good feel for the game, but his "efficiency zone" is really, really narrow. Again, that would be fine for a specialist coming off the bench, but it's much more problematic for a starter.

There is no perfect center that handles big plodding centers (Valunciunus) and smaller quicker centers (AD). If they had Valunciunas you’d complain he can’t guard the quicker bigs.

As of right now, WCJ’s defensive RPM places him #3 among centers. He stops opposing offenses so what does it matter that he gives up a few extra post points to Vucevic?

Do you believe that current RPM stat (3rd) accurately captures his actual impact if rated amongst the leagues defensive centers by eye test ?

[HomoSapien]

I don’t see Carter as a two way C. His defense though quite good is over rated on this board, but clearly it’s his lack of O ability, that strains the term two way being applied to him. If he is and I agree the term can be applied to him it’s only applicable if the requirement bar is set low, too low.

How exactly is his defense overrated?

Him being as short as he is weakens him against big body centers and he has the tendency to pick up really stupid fouls every game. Dude needs to tighten up his defensive game and stop grimacing or smirking whenever that whistle blows.

I agree with this. He's also taken a step backwards as a shot blocker.

[mtron32]

How exactly is his defense overrated?

Him being as short as he is weakens him against big body centers and he has the tendency to pick up really stupid fouls every game. Dude needs to tighten up his defensive game and stop grimacing or smirking whenever that whistle blows.

I agree with this. He's also taken a step backwards as a shot blocker.

May be too heavy, he seems more sluggish laterally this year than last but I see nice strength improvement inside. If he could lean out and still maintain that strength than he'd be back to his Block Panther ways.

[WICKED17]

I don't know what trading Carter for a draft pick accomplishes. Unless you're getting a draft pick that's clearly in the range to draft a star prospect, you're more likely to have the same problem you do now.

It offers you a chance at a star. Its no guarantee at one, but from my point of view I know WCJ isn't going to be one. If I have another pick I can target a player I may think could be one. Thats all. Its not going to happen though so there isn't much of a reason to dissect this.

My point is that WCJ is a role player. Lauri is too. Thats my "hot take" on them.

So you would have traded Harden, Steph, Klay, Draymond, Giannis, Jokic, Beal, Kawhi, Jimmy Butler and a host of other players who didn’t look like stars by year 2.

Context, says hello.

[Andi Obst]

How exactly is his defense overrated?

Him being as short as he is weakens him against big body centers and he has the tendency to pick up really stupid fouls every game. Dude needs to tighten up his defensive game and stop grimacing or smirking whenever that whistle blows.

I agree with this. He's also taken a step backwards as a shot blocker.

Come on now. With all the blitzing/defending away from the basket, of course his blocks are going down. He's still a good shot blocker.